I'm trying to avoid CAT stoves as that's another unit to replace. I'm all for the efficiency and enviro aspects of the CC but cost for replacement adds up. Thanks again all who continue to contribute!
Looking for new large woodstove
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Ok, Just got off a great phone call with Woodstock and now I'm really liking the Progress Hybrid-seems really simple in terms of construction and plenty big. Any more users of this stove out there? Again, many thanks to all who have helped in my search!
Ashful
Minister of Fire
There are several regulars here running Progress Hybrids, and all reports have been almost entirely good. Moreover, Woodstock is one of the manufacturers held in the utmost high regard, for end user support. You really can’t go wrong, with them. But you do realize they have a cat?
To me, cat replacement is a non issue. I’m perfectly happy to spend $150-$200 every third year, to save $10,000 in oil over the same period, or to have a warm house when I sneak downstairs in the middle of the night in my tee shirt and shorts to let the dog out. Do your own math, for your circumstances.
To me, cat replacement is a non issue. I’m perfectly happy to spend $150-$200 every third year, to save $10,000 in oil over the same period, or to have a warm house when I sneak downstairs in the middle of the night in my tee shirt and shorts to let the dog out. Do your own math, for your circumstances.
Trey1979
Feeling the Heat
Check out some sbi stoves i love my drolet ht2000 its not fancy but simple and a good source of heat. I can only compare it to a old nickerson grandad from the 80s insert and the drolet is alot more efficient way more be
SpaceBus
Minister of Fire
I'm with you on not wanting a cat, but the Progress hybrid is the only exception I'd make. If you are really committed to not having a cat get a Jotul F500 or 600 V2. I believe the V3 of the F500 is now a hybrid.
Good stove and heater, but not simple in comparison to some. There are lots of positive postings on this stove here. Search on "Progress Hybrid"
They never were good stoves. They were just better than say, a fisher... With the exception of some early stoves, they have always been parts heavy and high maintenance. I frequently talk to people that loved them and never had any trouble, until I bring some of the common problems with them, they then admit they had to leave the bypass open to make it work. Truth is, most of them needed major work but the owner was unaware, so they just left the bypass open.
The 600 has been discontinued, now the biggest stove is the F-500 and it does have a cat. No bypass though, odd...
I sense a desire for soapstone. I’ve had a stone stove and do not see stone as a positive thing. It’s neutral at best. It looks good but generally was more harm than good.
The progress hybrid is small at 2.8 and not as controllable as the larger Ideal Steel which is 3.2 cubes.
Yes, saw the price and they're running a rebate of $700.00. To be perfectly honest..it's not that price is NO issue but I'm a fan of amortization...the idea that the price could be amortized over x # of years. My VC 1610 was a killer on the amort. sched. Cost x parts x frequency of rebuild= expensive. I'm happy to pay more now versus more later in terms of parts x maintenance. I'm not entirely in love with soapstone and, yes, the box is 2.8 cu/ft but looking at all the units I'm considering..3.2 is the largest and 2.8 the smallest. We're talking roughly one log difference.
Add another vote for the Pacific Energy T6. My T5 has hands down been the best stove I've ever run.
I wasn’t saying you couldn’t, or shouldn’t afford it. It’s just unreasonable to spend all that extra money if it's not what you’re looking for. Considering there’s a lot of other quality stoves for less money.
No doubt-don't want to spend more if it's unwarranted. That's one of my hesitations on the Lopi Cape Cod.
Ashful
Minister of Fire
What’s your running mode? Highbeam’s dislike of soapstone is likely related to the fact that it takes a little longer to heat a cold room, because of two factors:
1. Specific heat of soapstone and slightly higher mass of many soapstone stoves means they take longer to radiate the same amount of heat as a steel or iron stove.
2. Most of the soapstone stoves have historically been nearly 100% radiant designs, with very few convective features. A radiant stove works by radiating energy to other massive objects in the room, on the principle that the air in the room will always stabilize to the temperature of the objects in the room.
A radiant stove can give warmth very quickly, if you’re standing right in front of it, but not if you’re at a distance from it or in an adjacent room. The convective stoves short-circuit this process, and provide a little more direct heating of the air in the room, which means they an make a room feel warmer quicker than a purely radiant design.
If you’re the guy who’s going to keep your stove going 24/7, this hardly matters, it’s really only an issue when you let the joint go cold and want to warm it up fast.
1. Specific heat of soapstone and slightly higher mass of many soapstone stoves means they take longer to radiate the same amount of heat as a steel or iron stove.
2. Most of the soapstone stoves have historically been nearly 100% radiant designs, with very few convective features. A radiant stove works by radiating energy to other massive objects in the room, on the principle that the air in the room will always stabilize to the temperature of the objects in the room.
A radiant stove can give warmth very quickly, if you’re standing right in front of it, but not if you’re at a distance from it or in an adjacent room. The convective stoves short-circuit this process, and provide a little more direct heating of the air in the room, which means they an make a room feel warmer quicker than a purely radiant design.
If you’re the guy who’s going to keep your stove going 24/7, this hardly matters, it’s really only an issue when you let the joint go cold and want to warm it up fast.
Excellent analysis, Ashful. We burn 24/7 from about now-ish through April..sometimes later. As you say, we're used to cast iron and the quicker "heat-up" but really don't need this type of heat. We do travel for a week here and there during Winter and return to a cool house. Once the stove gets going, it's just a few hours before the house is warm again. I'm really trying to drill down into this as not only are there so many varying features to each stove design, there are aspects of the designs that I anticipate will be problematic in the future. I liked the Hearthstone Manchester until I saw the exploded view diagram and the parts list (and the prices for replacement parts). While it has received good reviews, I'm not certain this particular stove will hold up to heavy use after a decade. I could be wrong. But I'm really trying to find a simpler design. The Manchester has a lot of internal parts that are cast iron-Primary and Secondary manifolds. Inner front, front grill...a ceramic piece-all stuff prone to cracking, warpage and eventual replacement. I'd say at this point I'm looking for a good sized fire box-2.8 or bigger and the simplest design-internally-that I can find. I'm not wedded to cast, steel or stone, cat or non. Thanks again!
SpaceBus
Minister of Fire
If you like simplicity you will have good luck with the non-hybrid Jotuls, but the V3 F500 looks pretty simple too with no bypass damper. I think the way you do and my stove has few maintenance items as well. While I've never owned a soapstone stove, I think Ashful is right on the money. The only time I suspect you will have any issues would be shoulder season when the stove isn't being run constantly. This is also an area Ashful and Highbeam both agree that BK stoves excel with the long slow burn. I have a tiny non cat stove and simply light a small load in the morning when I get up and a load before bed for the shoulder seasons. On cloudy days I just run a full load in the morning. On a big stove you could easily do the same thing, you will get good at this with practice. Once it gets to 24/7 burn schedule then none of this will matter of course. If your house is well insulated then the need for an all day fire in the shoulder season is even less.
Ashful
Minister of Fire
Since maintenance and lifetime are clearly a primary consideration for you, I suspect the least maintenance will be achieved with any of the welded steel box stoves. That would be any BK 30 series, PE Alderlea, or Jotul F50/55, from the list discussed above. These also happen to be the more convective designs, as they’re mostly cast panels hung on welded steel boxes, with a convective vented air gap between.
The Jotul 300-500 may have simple inner workings, but they’re still cemented iron stoves, like your old VC. I see nothing wrong with a cemented iron stove up to about 20 years of age, but expectations and desires may vary. I’ve done the tear down and rebuild of a Jotul 500, albeit the older catalytic design (Firelight 12), the new Jotul 300-500 are identical in that regard. It is not a small or clean job, and you’ll achieve competence right around the time you finish the job, immediately wanting to redo it.
The Jotul 300-500 may have simple inner workings, but they’re still cemented iron stoves, like your old VC. I see nothing wrong with a cemented iron stove up to about 20 years of age, but expectations and desires may vary. I’ve done the tear down and rebuild of a Jotul 500, albeit the older catalytic design (Firelight 12), the new Jotul 300-500 are identical in that regard. It is not a small or clean job, and you’ll achieve competence right around the time you finish the job, immediately wanting to redo it.
SpaceBus
Minister of Fire
It's a shame Morso doesn't make a big stove. All of their cast iron stoves (I don't know if any are not cast) are gasketed for ease of maintenance. The F55 is a great option. I think it can top load if that matters.
Grizzerbear
Minister of Fire
Buck stove makes a big non cat....the 94nc. It's a all steel convection design wit 4.4cf. The stove itself is is pretty simplistic....other than fiber board will eventually need replacing ....fan motor too? It has a 8 inch collar. Surprised to not here about buck stoves on here more really.
When they are mentioned, I dont think I've ever seen anything unfavorable.
Maybe there aren't many dealers? I suppose a company would have to work harder to get product awareness without a dealer network
Maybe there aren't many dealers? I suppose a company would have to work harder to get product awareness without a dealer network
Grizzerbear
Minister of Fire
Maybe so. Buck stoves are a big name down here in stoves....a lot of people i kno have them but their are several dealers around springfield area. Good customer service. They are based in North Carolina so maybe it's a southern thing? I have a model 74 but have only had it for second season now.....great stove so far. Family always had buck stoves growing up and they were always dependable.
2.8 cu ft is not small. 3.2 cu ft is just about 14% larger. It's a big and willing heater and good for larger spaces. It's hard to say what is sensed, but it seems like the steampunk aesthetic of the Ideal Steel might not fit in the decor. Hard to say. In one post the OP wants simple, without the complexities of a cat and bypass. And in the next a cat stove piques interest.
The F55 is front load only. It's the F50 that has the top-load option.
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