Looking for insert advice

[Bad LP]

why is it not allowed?

Jotul wants a 6" liner in the chimney but more important it is a fire hazard due to debris building up on the topside and there is no way to clean it out.

I hated to line a perfectly good chimney but I sleep well and leave the house with a fire burning all the time not forgetting the stove burns very well.

 

[tadmaz]

I get 12 hour burns in my Enviro Boston 1700, which I believe has the same firebox as the Enviro Cabello. I think the majority of hearth.com owners would prefer N/S loading in an insert over E/W - is much easier to load the stove, and you don't have to worry about a log rolling into the glass. I'm not really following your argument about more radiant heat from the glass resulting from E/W loading.

I may be flat out incorrect, but my theory is that having a larger/wider glass door will radiate more heat. Especially in a flush insert, it may be better to have the fire mostly up near the glass instead of up to 20" back from the glass. I would love an insert that would stick out a few inches, but I have that bluestone that would look goofy if I added depth to it. Maybe I will pursue getting a ballpark quote for the Cabello.

 

[edyit]

Jotul wants a 6" liner in the chimney but more important it is a fire hazard due to debris building up on the topside and there is no way to clean it out.

not trying to sound argumentative, but if there is a liner installed from insert to cap, how would debris build up? there should be no leaks in the liner, and it should have a proper anchor plate sealing the top, am i missing something?

 

[stovelark]

Hi all. BG have not heard about Sherwood getting bought, I will call our sales rep and find out. FWIW, the HI400 from Regency is a beauty. With its hybrid cat and sec tube burn system that claims 87 percent heating efficiency, there are few better out there. The Cabello is a recessed version of the Boston with clean lines, but still has the same reliable 2.5 cuft firebox the Kodiak and Boston and Venice all share. The price of the HI400 is its con, but with the efficiency over its tube burning counterparts, it should pay for itself over the life of the stove, in theory at least.....

 

[Bad LP]

not trying to sound argumentative, but if there is a liner installed from insert to cap, how would debris build up? there should be no leaks in the liner, and it should have a proper anchor plate sealing the top, am i missing something?

A block off plate as I know the term used is a plate that sits in the smoke chamber (throat) of a fire place that the flue pipe slides thru and stops in the area of the flue tile. A full liner to the chimney cap is not used. I know installing a wood stove in this manner will not pass inspection from the building department in Mass. My father did it and we also did it in a house owned in NH many years back long before inspections.

If you are asking about a plate used in conjunction with a full liner that is another story. I'm looking to look at my install in the LR one of these days and see if the installer packed around the pipe with Rockwool. I have a feeling he did not and I wasn't there. My chimney has become a major source of ice dams forming.

 

[edyit]

ok i see the confusion now in terminology. the blockoff plate as i know it is used with a full liner, it seals the top of the fireplace off so that more heat stays instead of going up the open chimney space, many here have installed them and speak highly of the difference it makes.

 

[tadmaz]

I have two dealers that carry Enviro. One is expensive. One I haven't asked to come out and measure at this point. They sent me the MSRP's, prices dated April 2017. Cabello 1200: 2,718 + 509 cast + 272 trim = 3499. Cabello 1700: 2932 + 509 cast + 272 trim = 3713. Comparable to HI400 costs. Decisions, decisions.

 

[illini81]

I have two dealers that carry Enviro. One is expensive. One I haven't asked to come out and measure at this point. They sent me the MSRP's, prices dated April 2017. Cabello 1200: 2,718 + 509 cast + 272 trim = 3499. Cabello 1700: 2932 + 509 cast + 272 trim = 3713. Comparable to HI400 costs. Decisions, decisions.

That does seem expensive. Did you try to see if they have any wiggle room?

 

[Bad LP]

ok i see the confusion now in terminology. the blockoff plate as i know it is used with a full liner, it seals the top of the fireplace off so that more heat stays instead of going up the open chimney space, many here have installed them and speak highly of the difference it makes.

Agreed. I like the rockwool approach myself. Maybe this weekend I'll pull the surround off and take a peak. Have two leftover blankets I saved from insulating my tanks.

 

[bholler]

I love my Jotul 550 in brown enamel. No block off plate allowed. 6" liner to the chimney cap.

What do you mean no block off plate allowed?

 

[tadmaz]

That does seem expensive. Did you try to see if they have any wiggle room?

I'd have to have them out, get a real proposal. Seems like around here in the Milwaukee area, there is minimal discounting going on, ever. A dealer is either expensive or really expensive. I had a proposal for the HI400 for $7300, after asking for their best foot forward. Was $8000 originally. I do have a dealer for the HI400 for $6000, which is still a lot.

 

[bholler]

Agreed. I like the rockwool approach myself. Maybe this weekend I'll pull the surround off and take a peak. Have two leftover blankets I saved from insulating my tanks.

A block off plate is a block off plate it doesnt matter if it is a full liner or a direct connect it is tge same thing. And yes direct connects are still allowed by code and code requires a plate in that case. But it is still a bad idea. And there is mo reason with a full liner that you would have anything build up on tge plate if it was installed correctly. Insulation is better than nothing but no where near as good as a plate

 

[illini81]

I'd have to have them out, get a real proposal. Seems like around here in the Milwaukee area, there is minimal discounting going on, ever. A dealer is either expensive or really expensive. I had a proposal for the HI400 for $7300, after asking for their best foot forward. Was $8000 originally. I do have a dealer for the HI400 for $6000, which is still a lot.

That's unfortunate! I know you said you'd like to pay for a professional install, but do you happen to have any handy friends/family that could help you with the install? It really isn't that tough, and it sounds like it would save you quite a bit. If I understand correctly, both the Cabello and HI400 are about $4k for you, and the cheapest install price you've found for the HI400 is $2k? If you did it yourself, it would cost around $1k or less. If you can talk a dealer down to $3500 for a stove, that would put you at $4500 or less total cost.

 

[illini81]

I may be flat out incorrect, but my theory is that having a larger/wider glass door will radiate more heat. Especially in a flush insert, it may be better to have the fire mostly up near the glass instead of up to 20" back from the glass. I would love an insert that would stick out a few inches, but I have that bluestone that would look goofy if I added depth to it. Maybe I will pursue getting a ballpark quote for the Cabello.

There could be something to your theory that a larger glass door will radiate more heat, but my guess is that this is a small component of the overall heating efficiency of the stove. Most (all?) inserts are designed to primarily transfer heat by convection, not radiation, and so their heating efficiency is going to depend on how well they convect heat. The Cabello 1700 has a rated efficiency of 84.7%, which is pretty darn good. The HI400 has and even better rated efficiency of 86.1%. There aren't many inserts that are going to be much more efficient than the two you're considering.

 

[tadmaz]

Having someone install for me adds about $1000, I think it's worth it. I probably could pull it off with more research and coordination with friends, but it's just too much heavy lifting and work. I am at least installing the electrical outlet in the fireplace. Also, has anyone seen the movie Manchester by the Sea? That has given the wife a reason to not allow me to install myself.

 

[tadmaz]

Pulled the trigger on an HI400 with oversized cast surround w/ grille, and insulated liner. $5550 grand total, which includes some sort of instant rebate and an all cash discount. There will be a $150 mail-in rebate too. Install date is mid-March, will post how it goes!

 

[tadmaz]

Got the outlet installed, and I have a hole ready on the left for routing the temperature probe.

 

[tadmaz]

Oversized cast faceplate is backordered until late March. Aww man!

 

[tadmaz]

Install scheduled for 4/12

 

[tadmaz]

Out of the 90s!

 

[brazilbl]

Out of the 90s!

Congratulations, welcome to the club!

When they installed my hearth heater, it was sure good not to look at that cheap brass/faux chrome frame of the zero-clearance fireplace. It screamed '80's.

I would imagine you are already planning on (or in the midst of) the first break-in fires.

 

[FPX Dude]

Nice going, good clean look w/o any ugly cords laying around, you should be proud!

 

[tadmaz]

Did a small fire last night, I think I need to adjust the door latch and perhaps take a look at whatever the fan uses to contact the stove, the fan didn't want to come on on its own until I did manual and back to auto, and this morning it didn't want to go off on its own by even going from auto to manual and back. Cat temps were 800-900 most of the time.

 

[prezes13]

The stove could have not get to the operating temp that's why the fan did not come in on auto. My fan doesn't kick in until stove gets to 400-450.

 

[stovelark]

All sounds good to me, very common cat temps even upwards to 1100 is ok. The fan coming on in auto normally takes a good fire and about 45 mins to an hour for auto, takes a while for it to turn off too. Sounds like she is doing just fine. Nice looking install too!