Looking at Enviro Maxx and alternatives. New to pellets and need serious advice.

[slangtruth]

No, it's properly hooked into the system. I'm a bit sensitive to this because the nimrod who sold us the Revolution made all kinds of noise about how it would heat our two ~1300 sq ft floors with no trouble, and we'd be needing a thermostat to hold it down. Instead, it's proven to be adequate to heat part of one floor to the low sixties when it's not terribly cold out, running 24/7 burning 2.5 bags a day, and can hold that 60 deg through a night like last night cranking at 4 bags a day (ie ~$20 a day). I don't want the guy who started this thread to go off reading about people effortlessly heating their 2000 sq ft homes to 72 degrees on a bag of pellets a day and thinking anything available on the market through the regular channels is going to do the same for his 4-7000 sq ft, or that his fuel costs to do so and the amount of work he's going to have to put in are not going to be considerable. He talked above about spending $2200 on propane, between pellets and the 150 gallons of #2 I've put in for emergencies I expect I'll be paying nearly that much this very mild winter on a much smaller space. Still better than oil, but...if I were the OP I'd be looking at maybe a nice pellet stove in the room where people gather most so I could turn the gas down on a cold night, but wouldn't be looking for central pellet heating.

In my own case, I can't help our building, it is what it is - huge (with 10' and up ceilings) and badly insulated, with over 800 sq ft of window space on each floor. The windows are covered with mylar-type insulation, but replacing them is out of the question (one floor would cost as much as a car), and we can't blow in insulation to the walls, we'd have to remove the clapboards and re-side, which is simply not gonna happen unless I hit the lottery, which I can't afford to play The oil heat struggles with it, too.

That would have raised a red flag if the oil furnace was struggling. Hard to reduce the heat source volume if the present is just barely doing its job. I'm sure the dealer assumed the oil furnace was adequate. And assuming isn't always good! In your case you might want to look for something thats very close to the oil furnace size. You'll be warmer. Or use the oil to catch u and then go back to pellet to keep up. I would even consider setting it back with a stat, I would think it would be safer to just maintain it at a content level. No setback stat recommended in this case!

Variables always gum things up! But in general a oil/gas furnace that is sized properly. It is generally close to 2x the needed amount on an average day.

The dealer was a living room stove dealer and just wanted to make the sale - he had no experience with central heating and didn't have a clue about what he was doing or what would be adequate, and neither did I. If we change furnaces again I'll look hard at NG, but we're still paying off the Rev and I can't see going with another pellet furnace when it's done. I do use a stat when temps are more moderate, running it at pilot (which is about 60%) most of the time, and cranking it on command for a couple hours in the early morning to get the temps up. I can always burn the dinos for an hour or two when I need to (I did this morning), but I'm trying to avoid it.

 

[DexterDay]

No, it's properly hooked into the system. I'm a bit sensitive to this because the nimrod who sold us the Revolution made all kinds of noise about how it would heat our two ~1300 sq ft floors with no trouble, and we'd be needing a thermostat to hold it down. Instead, it's proven to be adequate to heat part of one floor to the low sixties when it's not terribly cold out, running 24/7 burning 2.5 bags a day, and can hold that 60 deg through a night like last night cranking at 4 bags a day (ie ~$20 a day). I don't want the guy who started this thread to go off reading about people effortlessly heating their 2000 sq ft homes to 72 degrees on a bag of pellets a day and thinking anything available on the market through the regular channels is going to do the same for his 4-7000 sq ft, or that his fuel costs to do so and the amount of work he's going to have to put in are not going to be considerable. He talked above about spending $2200 on propane, between pellets and the 150 gallons of #2 I've put in for emergencies I expect I'll be paying nearly that much this very mild winter on a much smaller space. Still better than oil, but...if I were the OP I'd be looking at maybe a nice pellet stove in the room where people gather most so I could turn the gas down on a cold night, but wouldn't be looking for central pellet heating.

In my own case, I can't help our building, it is what it is - huge (with 10' and up ceilings) and badly insulated, with over 800 sq ft of window space on each floor. The windows are covered with mylar-type insulation, but replacing them is out of the question (one floor would cost as much as a car), and we can't blow in insulation to the walls, we'd have to remove the clapboards and re-side, which is simply not gonna happen unless I hit the lottery, which I can't afford to play The oil heat struggles with it, too.

That would have raised a red flag if the oil furnace was struggling. Hard to reduce the heat source volume if the present is just barely doing its job. I'm sure the dealer assumed the oil furnace was adequate. And assuming isn't always good! In your case you might want to look for something thats very close to the oil furnace size. You'll be warmer. Or use the oil to catch u and then go back to pellet to keep up. I would even consider setting it back with a stat, I would think it would be safer to just maintain it at a content level. No setback stat recommended in this case!

Variables always gum things up! But in general a oil/gas furnace that is sized properly. It is generally close to 2x the needed amount on an average day.

The dealer was a living room stove dealer and just wanted to make the sale - he had no experience with central heating and didn't have a clue about what he was doing or what would be adequate, and neither did I. If we change furnaces again I'll look hard at NG, but we're still paying off the Rev and I can't see going with another pellet furnace when it's done. I do use a stat when temps are more moderate, running it at pilot (which is about 60%) most of the time, and cranking it on command for a couple hours in the early morning to get the temps up. I can always burn the dinos for an hour or two when I need to (I did this morning), but I'm trying to avoid it.

Did he install it? If so, it may only be sub-par. Did he measure the static pressure within the ducts? Thats a big unit. Although you said it best about your home. If its not very well insulated and has as much windows as you say, then it willl prove to be hard to heat. Regardless of the sytem used.

I have a 50,000 BTU unit that barely comes off of Pilot (level 1). Granted I have a Huge woodstove cranking right next to it. So it does get some added BTU and efficiency from it. But I have been on a Bag a day pace and keeping the house at 72*. Kicked up to level 3 once yesterday. So it is possible. But I keep the woodstove cranked. Everytime the furnace kicks on (on for 10 min, off for 15 min) it takes the hot air from the basement and sends it upstairs. (No cold air return hooked up/did it that way, so I could use the woodstove to my advantage).

Is your ducts insulated? How long is the plenum before it goes into your existing system? Seems like at 4 bags a day, it should do a little better. Are all proper back-draft dampers installed?

 

[slangtruth]

Did he install it? If so, it may only be sub-par. Did he measure the static pressure within the ducts? Thats a big unit. Although you said it best about your home. If its not very well insulated and has as much windows as you say, then it willl prove to be hard to heat. Regardless of the sytem used.

I have a 50,000 BTU unit that barely comes off of Pilot (level 1). Granted I have a Huge woodstove cranking right next to it. So it does get some added BTU and efficiency from it. But I have been on a Bag a day pace and keeping the house at 72*. Kicked up to level 3 once yesterday. So it is possible. But I keep the woodstove cranked. Everytime the furnace kicks on (on for 10 min, off for 15 min) it takes the hot air from the basement and sends it upstairs. (No cold air return hooked up/did it that way, so I could use the woodstove to my advantage).

Is your ducts insulated? How long is the plenum before it goes into your existing system? Seems like at 4 bags a day, it should do a little better. Are all proper back-draft dampers installed?

He did install it, badly. I paid a real HVAC guy $500 earlier this year to come and straighten things out. Originally it went into the oil furnace's plenum with no backdraft damper (part of him not knowing what he was doing). It was essentially useless as installed. There were four 8x12" trunks off of that plenum, two going upstairs and two down. We cut out the upstairs altogether, picked the best of the two trunks that went downstairs and attached the Rev's output directly to that, with an automatic backdraft damper that keeps the pellet heat out of the main furnace, but lets them both go in tandem when I turn on the oil. I'm told the current amount and size of ductwork connected is appropriate for the Rev's room air blower. The ducts are not insulated (except for one new section of Flex duct we put in to feed one of the registers originally fed by the other, unconnected downstairs trunk). I'll be attacking that in the spring or summer, but crawling around a 3' dirt crawl space to do it is not going to be pleasant. That may buy us a degree or two upstairs, but I'm not expecting that big a difference. The heat loss is too intense.

Wish I had already superheated return air to feed it I'm sure my problems would be over. I was interested to see that the Fahrenheit owner's manual is almost identical to the Revolution's. Either the same engineers worked on both projects, or they hired the same tech writer and he copied his own work. Check it out sometime.

 

[DexterDay]

Did he install it? If so, it may only be sub-par. Did he measure the static pressure within the ducts? Thats a big unit. Although you said it best about your home. If its not very well insulated and has as much windows as you say, then it willl prove to be hard to heat. Regardless of the sytem used.

I have a 50,000 BTU unit that barely comes off of Pilot (level 1). Granted I have a Huge woodstove cranking right next to it. So it does get some added BTU and efficiency from it. But I have been on a Bag a day pace and keeping the house at 72*. Kicked up to level 3 once yesterday. So it is possible. But I keep the woodstove cranked. Everytime the furnace kicks on (on for 10 min, off for 15 min) it takes the hot air from the basement and sends it upstairs. (No cold air return hooked up/did it that way, so I could use the woodstove to my advantage).

Is your ducts insulated? How long is the plenum before it goes into your existing system? Seems like at 4 bags a day, it should do a little better. Are all proper back-draft dampers installed?

He did install it, badly. I paid a real HVAC guy $500 earlier this year to come and straighten things out. Originally it went into the oil furnace's plenum with no backdraft damper (part of him not knowing what he was doing). It was essentially useless as installed. There were four 8x12" trunks off of that plenum, two going upstairs and two down. We cut out the upstairs altogether, picked the best of the two trunks that went downstairs and attached the Rev's output directly to that, with an automatic backdraft damper that keeps the pellet heat out of the main furnace, but lets them both go in tandem when I turn on the oil. I'm told the current amount and size of ductwork connected is appropriate for the Rev's room air blower. The ducts are not insulated (except for one new section of Flex duct we put in to feed one of the registers originally fed by the other, unconnected downstairs trunk). I'll be attacking that in the spring or summer, but crawling around a 3' dirt crawl space to do it is not going to be pleasant. That may buy us a degree or two upstairs, but I'm not expecting that big a difference. The heat loss is too intense.

Wish I had already superheated return air to feed it I'm sure my problems would be over. I was interested to see that the Fahrenheit owner's manual is almost identical to the Revolution's. Either the same engineers worked on both projects, or they hired the same tech writer and he copied his own work. Check it out sometime.

Strikingly similar ..... The exchanger, the shell, and almost the controls. The pots are both self cleaning. But the Revolutions is different.

The Pot cleaning happens every 8-9 hrs on Premium pellet (10 different fuel settings/the lower the grade of fuel, the more frequent the cleaning) but when it cleans the pot, it ramps up to level 5 for about 15 minutes (give or take, have yet to time it) to initiate the "clinker" removal. After ramping up it slides the Cast reburn plate out and pellets then drop on it for several minutes (fire underneath catches those pellets on plate on fire) then the back of the pot, is like a bulldozer and just pushes the old fire/ash/clinker out (as it pushes forward, the front of pot is on hinges and flips out to let ash drop in pan). It pushes back and forth twice. Then after returning to its home position, the Cast plate pulls back and the new fire drops into the pot. Continues on level 5 for a bit to ensure the fire stays lit. Whole process is about 30 min or so. From level 1 back to when furnace stabilizes and goes back to level 1 burn.

It is very similar though. Im intrigued by how the "Clinker Cutter" works? Does it spin constantly? Does the fuel setting affect how often or how much it spins? I wouod much rather of had a Revolution. But beggars cant be choosers.

My apologies to the OP. Done hijacking......

 

[1wired1]

I don't mind the hijacking. The more I read the more I learn.

@SmokeyTheBear , who do you find to do a heat loss calculation?

Thanks
1w1

 

[SmokeyTheBear]

I don't mind the hijacking. The more I read the more I learn.

@SmokeyTheBear , who do you find to do a heat loss calculation?

Thanks
1w1

You can do it yourself there are several decent calculators on line. Builditsolar.com has one at: http://www.builditsolar.com/References/Calculators/HeatLoss/HeatLoss.htm


ETA: Also several energy audit folks also can do it for you. I'd recommend having your placed checked anyway because there may be a number of low cost high payoff things you can do to reduce the heat loss and should be done anyway. It is also possible to back into the figures (not the best way).

 

[slangtruth]

It is very similar though. Im intrigued by how the "Clinker Cutter" works? Does it spin constantly? Does the fuel setting affect how often or how much it spins? I wouod much rather of had a Revolution. But beggars cant be choosers.

My apologies to the OP. Done hijacking......

Since the OP doesn't mind the hijack I'll explain it quickly. Imagine a clock dial cut into four equal parts. That's the view from one end of the burnpot. One quarter is centered directly under the 12, that's the active burnpot. Every two hours (fixed) the whole scheme slowly rotates counterclockwise 90 degrees. What was active before is now centered on the 9, still burning for a while, getting air but not getting new fuel. New pellets are now falling into the empty space under the 12, and being lit from below by the remnants of the last fire while it's still going. Two hours later when it rotates again, whatever is left of the first burnpot has gone out and most small ashes from it have fallen into the pan. On the second turn of the dial any remaining clinkers go through the clinker cutters (essentially a sieve formed by the fingers which make up the burnpot and an interleaved mesh of metal fingers it passes through) and anything left of the original burnpot's fuel is ground up and falls into the pan. Slick system once they got it working right (which took them a while). The only remaining difficulty is if due to initial igniter failure or something the pot fills with unburnt pellets. The revolver can get stuck partway through, which shuts everything down, and requires manual intervention to clear.

 

[1wired1]

I don't mind the hijacking. The more I read the more I learn.

@SmokeyTheBear , who do you find to do a heat loss calculation?

Thanks
1w1

You can do it yourself there are several decent calculators on line. Builditsolar.com has one at: http://www.builditsolar.com/References/Calculators/HeatLoss/HeatLoss.htm


ETA: Also several energy audit folks also can do it for you. I'd recommend having your placed checked anyway because there may be a number of low cost high payoff things you can do to reduce the heat loss and should be done anyway. It is also possible to back into the figures (not the best way).

I think I would be better off having someone come out and have my place checked. I don't think I did that online calculator right.

 

[1wired1]

Called the local Harman retailer I think they said it was $4900. I can't remember exactly. I found one locally still new and wrapped with the 2100 cfm blower. But it's from 2009, is that before Harman fixed the issues they were having or is one from 2009 safe to purchase?