Longer Burn Time In Smaller Stove

[begreen]

Barely more than a six-pak. Though he did love that little stove for heating his office. Later bumped it up to an F3CB.

 

[EbS-P]

Btus now or later. Makes no difference to me. If I want to relight fast I start a new top down fire if I don’t have enough coals left for a fast start. I think it’s cleaner too. I won’t be trying anything. You won’t find me experimenting. But I will add more coals coal longer.

 

[Todd]

OK, interesting.... I do this for sure in my F100...I'll try and avoid a huge coal buildup so I can stuff as much bold/fresh wood in as possible. I'll have to try this way this coming winter and not that way and compare.
In my place, I'm often trying to warm it up from unheated the first night, so I'm tending to it every hour anyway before bed..... and more BTUs longer that first night would be better.

I would try raking as much coals all the way to the front then load a large log in back and fill in as tight as possible. It’s hard to get a slow front to back cigar burn in a small East West fire box but it may help some.

Another trick is to find and plug the unregulated boost air. Not sure how it would effect your stove but I think it’s worth trying.

 

[Kurt Huber]

If someone is actually able to get consistent 11 hour burn times out of a Jotul 602, then that's great for anyone who already owns a Jotul 602. But to anyone shopping for a stove and looking for long burn times, that stove would not be on my contenders list. There are much better options for achieving long burns in a small package.

Tell me more!
I’m looking for a smaller robe that will give me longer burn times. Small cabin. I hear so much conflicting I have no idea hat to do!
lol
30x25 lofted in Minnesota.
please help.

 

[Ashful]

Tell me more!
I’m looking for a smaller robe that will give me longer burn times. Small cabin. I hear so much conflicting I have no idea hat to do!

Cat stoves can generally burn lower than non-cats, and thermostatic stoves in either tech allow you to run at a rate lower than without, as it allows a lower initial air setting while opening later in the burn to prevent stall. Combine a cat with thermostatic control, and you have a Blaze King. If getting maximum hours out of minimal wood is your goal, you're going to want to look at a cat stove, and the best performing cat stoves are going to be from Blaze King and Woodstock.

That said, there are a few other issues:

1. Blaze King and/or Woodstock may not have a stove that suits your space and clearances as well as some other brands.
2. Longer burn time does not mean more heat! You can control the rate at which the heat is released, but no matter the stove, you're still dealing with a fixed BTU/pound or BTU/ft3 fuel source at the heart of it. The efficiencies don't vary that much between various EPA stoves of a class.

If you have room for a larger stove, then you may find a larger cat stove gives you the flexibility to get long burn times at a low rate, or to crank it up for more heat when you need it. That's their primary advantage, whereas going large on a non-cat and stuffing it full to achieve longer burns might give more output than is desirable in a smaller space. This is why you'll often see recommendations for cat stoves being slightly larger than non-cats, for the same space.

 

[Todd]

Tell me more!
I’m looking for a smaller robe that will give me longer burn times. Small cabin. I hear so much conflicting I have no idea hat to do!
lol
30x25 lofted in Minnesota.
please help.

I have a 20x30 log cabin with 200sq ft loft in NW Wis and I’m heating it with a Jotul F45. There are a few non cats out there that have some good control. Mine will run with a full load in the shoulder seasons on low for 12-16 hours depending on the weather and type of fuel used. The cast iron jacket helps curb the radiant heat so it’s not so overpowering. When it gets colder those burn times drop in half to keep my cabin in the mid 70’s. I used to heat my cabin with a Jotul 602 and it did fine for the most part but you had to feed that little stove every 2-4 hours in cold weather.

Another great non cat brand is Pacific Energy. They also seem to have good control and long burn times.

Blaze Kings are great for the shoulder seasons but are they really worth the extra price to get a 24 hour burn schedule and black glass? Depends on your wants and needs I guess.

 

[Ashful]

Another great non cat brand is Pacific Energy. They also seem to have good control and long burn times.

Blaze Kings are great for the shoulder seasons but are they really worth the extra price to get a 24 hour burn schedule and black glass? Depends on your wants and needs I guess.

Good point on the cost of Blaze King, if you’re not ever wanting to run low and slow, then you’re spending money on a feature you’ll never use. But perhaps not by comparison to Pacific Energy? PE makes great stoves, in fact if I were ever to buy a non-cat, they’d be right at the top of my list. But I don’t think they’re much different in price than BK, they are both premium stove brands, with pricing to reflect that.

The advantage of going non-cat, with regard to budget, is that there are more low-cost options available. Whereas I don’t think there are any budget-level cat stoves that work very well, there are several budget-level non-cat options. Both tech’s seem to top out near the same price on premium products, but the lower cost limit on reasonable performance is definitely lower on non-cats.

 

[Todd]

Good point on the cost of Blaze King, if you’re not ever wanting to run low and slow, then you’re spending money on a feature you’ll never use. But perhaps not by comparison to Pacific Energy? PE makes great stoves, in fact if I were ever to buy a non-cat, they’d be right at the top of my list. But I don’t think they’re much different in price than BK, they are both premium stove brands, with pricing to reflect that.

The advantage of going non-cat, with regard to budget, is that there are more low-cost options available. Whereas I don’t think there are any budget-level cat stoves that work very well, there are several budget-level non-cat options. Both tech’s seem to top out near the same price on premium products, but the lower cost limit on reasonable performance is definitely lower on non-cats.

Around here it around $800 difference between a PE Summit and a BK Princess. The PE Alderlea is closer but not sure in comparison to the Ashford. Anyway imo they are both way overpriced. I paid $2000 for my F45 two years ago now they are going for $2800! Smaller stoves have increased in price as well but not as bad. $1300 for a 602, I paid $1000 four years ago. It’s sad to see high end stoves approaching $5k. That can buy a lot of firewood for an old smoke dragon.

 

[Ashful]

Around here it around $800 difference between a PE Summit and a BK Princess. The PE Alderlea is closer but not sure in comparison to the Ashford. Anyway imo they are both way overpriced. I paid $2000 for my F45 two years ago now they are going for $2800! Smaller stoves have increased in price as well but not as bad. $1300 for a 602, I paid $1000 four years ago. It’s sad to see high end stoves approaching $5k. That can buy a lot of firewood for an old smoke dragon.

The prices seem to reflect the new EPA requirements + rebates, or at least they seemed to occur at the same time, and are surely also affected by increased material and delivery costs, just like everything else. Hit the manufacturers with new regulations and increasing fuel and component costs, and they will need to adjust pricing to remain above water.

I agree the Alderlea is the only PE really comparable to the BK Ashford, both being cast-clad steel boxes. The Summit is basically the stripped-down bare steel firebox of the Alderlea, same guts, but without the expensive dressing. However, it's that expensive dressing that gives the Alderlea the soft convective touch for which PE has gained such a good reputation.

 

[begreen]

I agree the Alderlea is the only PE really comparable to the BK Ashford, both being cast-clad steel boxes. The Summit is basically the stripped-down bare steel firebox of the Alderlea, same guts, but without the expensive dressing. However, it's that expensive dressing that gives the Alderlea the soft convective touch for which PE has gained such a good reputation.

That would be the standard Summit, which came out several years before the Alderlea T6. The Summit Classic has a full, porcelain steel jacket. This softens the radiant heat off the steel too and is a mostly convective stove, but with 95 lbs. less mass than the T6.

 

[Kurt Huber]

Around here it around $800 difference between a PE Summit and a BK Princess. The PE Alderlea is closer but not sure in comparison to the Ashford. Anyway imo they are both way overpriced. I paid $2000 for my F45 two years ago now they are going for $2800! Smaller stoves have increased in price as well but not as bad. $1300 for a 602, I paid $1000 four years ago. It’s sad to see high end stoves approaching $5k. That can buy a lot of firewood for an old smoke dragon.

Yes I see. It’s not all,about how much wood I burn in the stove it’s the convenience of coming back to the cabin or waking up in the morning and having a warm space.

 

[Kurt Huber]

Th

I have a 20x30 log cabin with 200sq ft loft in NW Wis and I’m heating it with a Jotul F45. There are a few non cats out there that have some good control. Mine will run with a full load in the shoulder seasons on low for 12-16 hours depending on the weather and type of fuel used. The cast iron jacket helps curb the radiant heat so it’s not so overpowering. When it gets colder those burn times drop in half to keep my cabin in the mid 70’s. I used to heat my cabin with a Jotul 602 and it did fine for the most part but you had to feed that little stove every 2-4 hours in cold weather.

Another great non cat brand is Pacific Energy. They also seem to have good control and long burn times.

Blaze Kings are great for the shoulder seasons but are they really worth the extra price to get a 24 hour burn schedule and black glass? Depends on your wants and needs I guess.

Thank you so much for the info! Very helpful!

 

[Kurt Huber]

Cat stoves can generally burn lower than non-cats, and thermostatic stoves in either tech allow you to run at a rate lower than without, as it allows a lower initial air setting while opening later in the burn to prevent stall. Combine a cat with thermostatic control, and you have a Blaze King. If getting maximum hours out of minimal wood is your goal, you're going to want to look at a cat stove, and the best performing cat stoves are going to be from Blaze King and Woodstock.

That said, there are a few other issues:

1. Blaze King and/or Woodstock may not have a stove that suits your space and clearances as well as some other brands.
2. Longer burn time does not mean more heat! You can control the rate at which the heat is released, but no matter the stove, you're still dealing with a fixed BTU/pound or BTU/ft3 fuel source at the heart of it. The efficiencies don't vary that much between various EPA stoves of a class.

If you have room for a larger stove, then you may find a larger cat stove gives you the flexibility to get long burn times at a low rate, or to crank it up for more heat when you need it. That's their primary advantage, whereas going large on a non-cat and stuffing it full to achieve longer burns might give more output than is desirable in a smaller space. This is why you'll often see recommendations for cat stoves being slightly larger than non-cats, for the same space.

This is great info and helps Me a lot.
live done a top of research and am wondering why no one ever talks about the Kuma hybrid stove? The price is great, the clearances are great, has one of the best warranties in the business, has great reviews and customer service.
This is the stove I was looking at.

 

[Ashful]

Kuma comes up a good bit here, mostly their massive Sequoia model. There have been several forum posters over the years who have owned that stove, and I honestly can't remember anyone ever complaining about them, but maybe I just wasn't paying enough attention, as it's a brand I had never considered for myself. Most of us tend to read and respond to posts pertaining to brands we've owned or at least researched for our own installations, which is why you need replies from several different posters to really get a full picture.

 

[begreen]

This is great info and helps Me a lot.
live done a top of research and am wondering why no one ever talks about the Kuma hybrid stove? The price is great, the clearances are great, has one of the best warranties in the business, has great reviews and customer service.
This is the stove I was looking at.

Kuma makes good stoves and they have many happy customers. I think the main reason you see less about them is their sales volume and distribution are lower but that doesn't affect the quality of their product. It's a smaller shop but that means you get personal attention and support.

 

[Todd]

So lately I’ve tried this Chipmunk cheek technique in my 602 CB and it doesn’t work. Loading fresh splits on a large coal bed just leads to an overfire even if I immediately shut off the air. Within minutes my flue temps are up over 1000 and stove temps pushing 800-900! No way do I have coals left more than 6 hours with this method.

I can get 8 hours if I reload on a small coal bed raked forward and pack the firebox full with good hardwood.

Maybe the 602 eco has less air coming in and can be shut down more. It will be interesting to see how the new 602 v3 works out, maybe it’ll have a little more control?

 

[begreen]

So lately I’ve tried this Chipmunk cheek technique in my 602 CB and it doesn’t work. Loading fresh splits on a large coal bed just leads to an overfire even if I immediately shut off the air. Within minutes my flue temps are up over 1000 and stove temps pushing 800-900! No way do I have coals left more than 6 hours with this method.

I can get 8 hours if I reload on a small coal bed raked forward and pack the firebox full with good hardwood.

Maybe the 602 eco has less air coming in and can be shut down more. It will be interesting to see how the new 602 v3 works out, maybe it’ll have a little more control?

That's the same way I run our 602. The 602 and 602N and Eco have a leaky intake. In the glass door models I think there is an intentional gap with no seal at the top of the glass to work as a rudimentary air wash.

 

[Todd]

That's the same way I run our 602. The 602 and 602N and Eco have a leaky intake. In the glass door models I think there is an intentional gap with no seal at the top of the glass to work as a rudimentary air wash.

Right, the top of my 602 CB door has no gasket allowing air to dump down over the glass, kind of a rough air wash. The primary air slide closes all the way but it’s not air tight. Then the secondary air is unregulated and comes up through the back. Lots of unregulated air dumping into this stove, maybe the new V3 will be more controllable?