Log splitter will only split at low engine RPM

[nezwick]

Rockford was who came to mind for me too, since I know the bigger V4 Wisconsins often used Rockford power take offs. I'm still trying to research - again with the case of the missing ID tag. There are some numbers cast into the one side, but a Google search of those brought back nothing.

I like the idea of fabricating my own adapter (well, technically paying someone to fabricate it, but anyway). Looking at the prototype I made, I see no reliable way to seal the pilot with an o-ring, due to the intrusion of the 4 bolt holes, so having the shaft live in an oil bath might not be possible. If synthetic grease is the next best alternative, I can go with that.

 

[VirginiaIron]

Assuming the first engine flange is sealed, I would think you can make that tub by sealing your new rear flange. Install a fill hole above centerline and a drain hole in the bottom of the case. Just make sure it has a breather in the fill plug so the tub is not under pressure. Edit- seal it with flat gasket material or silicone.

 

[nezwick]

I picked up the pump from the shop yesterday - and it sure is wrecked! I'll get you some pictures today before I head off to work. The one guy said it was the worst he had ever seen, and they both were in disbelief that it was ever able to build pressure for me. It has been slowly eating itself for many years and I just put it out of its misery. I feel better that I didn't damage a perfectly good part due to mis-use. Simply gambled on a used piece of machinery and lost.

 

[nezwick]

Pics of the carnage, as promised:

 

[VirginiaIron]

Can you modify the old pump flange to work as an adapter to the new pump?

 

[kevin j]

I don't think it is anything you did, nor did the seller probably know it was failing.


This is a pretty typical piston pump failure for the situation. It shows the effects of the low inlet pressure, high case pressure, and open center application. All of these allow the pistons to go 'unloaded', the slippers lift off the swash plate, then slap back down.

-Cavitation erosion, the sandy corroded looking marks on the surface of the valve plate (end cover of pump). This is from restricted inlet.

-Slipper edges worn really thin. When they lift up, the holddown plate has to keep them down, so they chatter up and down between the small clearances.

-Crimp of the slippers to the round ball end of the pistons is hammered and worn out from pulling when they should only push.

-Swash plate shows the areas where slippers lifted up then slapped down as they go around their cycle. These won't be in one exact location, as the wear plate is free and intended to rotate and float around in the swash plate to distribute the wear.

-Running open center typically also shows loss of lubrication through the small hole in the center of piston and slipper. The bottom of the slippers (not shown) will be rounded off on the edges and the brass smeared.



It appears the shaft was keyed. Will the existing spline coupler work on a new two stage keyed pump, maybe with a spacer to reduce the ID?



This is not even close to a 'worse case failure' scenario. . The slippers are all accounted for, in place, and in one piece. Holddown plate is in one piece. Pistons have the ball ends still there and not broken or worn off to a nubbin. Swash wear plate isn't worn through into the actual casting of the swash plate. And pump case is still in one piece. It is amazing how much damage can be done when the diesel engine has enough torque….



You will be far more pleased with a gear pump than replacing this one.

 

[nezwick]

Can you modify the old pump flange to work as an adapter to the new pump?

That might work. What you have proposed isn't actually the old pump flange though, it's the "back cover" (not sure the technical term) with the plumbing ports. The flange itself is cast into the main body of the pump and would not be useful if cut off. I've personally never tried to drill or cut cast iron before, but I'm sure it's not impossible. I'll have to pick up a couple diamond edge cutoff wheels and a hole saw or something to bore out the inside pilot and see what I can do. Worth looking into.

 

[nezwick]

I don't think it is anything you did, nor did the seller probably know it was failing.

...

It appears the shaft was keyed. Will the existing spline coupler work on a new two stage keyed pump, maybe with a spacer to reduce the ID?

This is not even close to a 'worse case failure' scenario.

Good to hear all of that information.

The shaft on the old pump is 7/8 keyed, which is the same as the shaft coming out of the PTO clutch. I think I can easily use a reducer bushing/spacer thing to adapt it to the 5/8 keyed shaft of whatever new pump I get. I still have no way to secure the coupler to the shaft inside the clutch, but it wasn't secured before, so whatever.

I should be ordering a pump today. I've narrowed down a few options, and they all seem the same (imported) so I'm basically going to go with the cheapest. It's around $210 and the company is Tool Tuff Direct (not sketchy at all)... Only problem is, most of the pumps have 1" inlet and 3/4" outlet. I need to determine what size plumbing I have before I finalize my order. Pumps with 1 and 1/4" inlet and 1" outlet aren't as plentiful and twice the price.

 

[VirginiaIron]

That might work. What you have proposed isn't actually the old pump flange though, it's the "back cover" (not sure the technical term) with the plumbing ports. The flange itself is cast into the main body of the pump and would not be useful if cut off. I've personally never tried to drill or cut cast iron before, but I'm sure it's not impossible. I'll have to pick up a couple diamond edge cutoff wheels and a hole saw or something to bore out the inside pilot and see what I can do. Worth looking into.

I thought the stock holes were mounting holes, nevermind. A piece of steel would work much easier.

 

[nezwick]

Well against my usual actions I ordered (cringe) a cheap foreign pump. From what I can tell, it's the exact same brand that Rugged Made uses, so it might be ok. I've seen decent reviews about Rugged Made splitters, and at $3000+ for their biggest splitters, they better be good.

It looks like the part number is CBDN-22/7. I do have the 1" inlet and 3/4" outlet, so this should work fine with my plumbing (will be re-routed and filtered, of course).

https://www.tooltuffdirect.com/collections/log-splitter-pumps/products/lspm028

I hope I made the right choice. There are way too many options in the world of hydraulic pumps.

 

[Ashful]

Well against my usual actions I ordered (cringe) a cheap foreign pump. From what I can tell, it's the exact same brand that Rugged Made uses, so it might be ok. I've seen decent reviews about Rugged Made splitters, and at $3000+ for their biggest splitters, they better be good.

It looks like the part number is CBDN-22/7. I do have the 1" inlet and 3/4" outlet, so this should work fine with my plumbing (will be re-routed and filtered, of course).

https://www.tooltuffdirect.com/collections/log-splitter-pumps/products/lspm028

I hope I made the right choice. There are way too many options in the world of hydraulic pumps.

Given the cost of these pumps, if it lasts even a third as long as a Vickers, you’re still ahead of the game. Also, now you’re 2-staging it, better speed, better power.

 

[Jags]

Whooo Hooo! A 28 GPM 2 stage is gonna make that thing a little beastie. I really, really hope you are serious about replacing the air cylinder to a proper hydro unit.

 

[nezwick]

I will, once I find something, hopefully locally and in good used condition or rebuilt. I'm seeing prices that rival what I paid for the entire machine, so that's going to factor in for sure. Safety aside, I want the 30" stroke so I can leave my pieces cut longer.

Just out of curiosity, what happens when cylinders fail due to too much pressure? I'm having a hard time finding videos on YouTube.

 

[Ashful]

I will, once I find something, hopefully locally and in good used condition or rebuilt. I'm seeing prices that rival what I paid for the entire machine, so that's going to factor in for sure. Safety aside, I want the 30" stroke so I can leave my pieces cut longer.

Just out of curiosity, what happens when cylinders fail due to too much pressure? I'm having a hard time finding videos on YouTube.

That’s dependent on how much energy is stored, which is dependent on the failure pressure and the compressibility of the medium. If there’s air in the system, it can be quite catastrophic, shrapnel and all.

When 1/2” - 3/4” hydraulic lines fail, assuming there’s no air trapped in the system, it’s usually fairly uneventful. Your primary concern there is skin penetration from fluid escaping at high velocity. However, given the volume of a cylinder at full extension, there is potential for some serious stored energy. Boom.

 

[brenndatomu]

When 1/2” - 3/4” hydraulic lines fail, assuming there’s no air trapped in the system, it’s usually fairly uneventful

More often than not its uneventful...mainly because nobody is in the path of the fluid...but I have personally witnessed quite a few lines blow in a way that you wouldn't have wanted to be anywhere near the path of the oil (this is on ag and heavy equipment) and then there was a time or two where someone did get an oil bath...but fortunately that's all it was, no injurys.
Kind of a side story...in high school shop class we had a kid end up in the ER from being sprayed with a pressure washer...it cut into his back (yeah it was horseplay) they told us he was lucky, that being cut with high pressure water can be very serious injury...even deadly. I'm not sure I have this completely right anymore, but I think it was something like the water can cut through into organs and blow things up like a hollow point bullet does. Fortunately this kid was hit in the shoulder blade area so the water stream didn't go very deep, bone stopped it.

Anyways, I would not want to be around a 250 PSI rated cylinder with 1000# and more on it...might get lucky and the tie rods break, but might rip the tube wide open too...never know.
(my first guess is that the seals would probably blow out of it, but who knows?!)

I think I'd run a wore out hydraulic cylinder from a farm auction before using that air cylinder...
My 2 cents...

 

[nezwick]

Well here's a small update for you guys since I haven't checked in recently.

1. The new pump arrived from Tool Tuff Direct.

2. My little wooden adapter prototype was 100% spot on correct!

3. We have a family friend back in PA who works at a machine shop, so two weekends ago I gathered everything and took it to the guy. He said to give them about 3 weeks and they'll blueprint it and make it out of steel. I said steel is no problem.


So that's where we stand right now. I keep saying I need to give the neighbor a call to see when we can do the modifications to the hydraulic tank, but so far that hasn't happened.




In the mean time..................

Enter insane Craigslist homemade Wisconsin-powered log splitter #2!

It's probably one of the craziest machines I've ever seen. I couldn't resist. It used to be a Littleford power broom that the highway department would use. Powered by a 4 cylinder VE4D (presumed original to the broom) and we think the hydraulics (controls/pump/reservoir are all one piece) came from a front end loader or similar. It has a 5 horse Briggs rigged up to "pony" start the big V4 (also came with the original hand crank but the guy couldn't get the hang of hand cranking it). The hydraulics and cylinder are both laughably under-sized (1/2" hoses, 3x18 cylinder) for the engine and the overall scale of the equipment. It's much faster, but much less powerful than, the green one. But despite all that, I was able to split that pile in about 5-6? hours. I have to be mindful of grain and knots, instead of just mashing through whatever I wanted with the green one.

I got it so I could take my time with the green one and do it right, while still being able to get the big wood pile cleaned up and out of there for the spring. In the end, I may deconstruct the orange one and have the axle and frame reconfigured into a hay-wagon style farm trailer (front axle pivot). Could probably make 3x profit selling the VE4D on eBay. It runs absolutely perfectly, only has a damaged throttle lock knob. The engine serial number is from 1942!

 

[salecker]

Cool machine again.
You may have to keep looking for theses.I can see your yard lined up with old re-purposed machines that now split wood.

 

[Ashful]

Nezwick’s Island of Misfit Splitters?

 

[VirginiaIron]

Is that one of those pony motor starters? Definitely need a video.

 

[nezwick]

Well the reference to Island of Misfit Toys was over my head (and before my time) - had to look that one up haha. But yes, nezwick's Island of Misfit Equipment!

I know I'm steering my own thread off topic now, but how about this one - a homemade tow-behind leaf blower with a Kohler K301 (12HP). This thing is amazing. It rides on a large bearing and can be rotated 180 degrees to blow leaves in any direction. It has an Atwater-Strong impeller which was made right here in Ohio. Another Craigslist find, of course. When I got it, it didn't run. Needed the fuel system gone through, points/condenser, spark plug, and muffler. It may actually be a K321 (14HP), but I haven't taken the time to measure the bore/stroke to find out.

I will get you a video of the pony start and how the orange splitter works.

 

[nezwick]

Well you guys I finally have an update!

Here is the adapter part that our machinist friend produced. I think it looks really nice. Of course I have to wait until my next trip out to PA to actually get the thing, but at least it’s done. The only thing he didn’t do was the tapped holes for the oil plugs. I will make do without and just use grease.

So I should at least have this monster up and running again for the fall firewood season.

 

[nezwick]

And the update we've all been waiting for (hopefully)!

My parents came out for a week and so my dad and I tackled some overdue projects, this being one of them. Here are some pictures of the progress we made re-working the hydraulic plumbing and getting the new pump installed.




Here is the new suction line welded into the tank at the bottom. It used to come through the top. The strainer is screwed onto the other end of this fitting.

Turned old suction line into a vent (1" to 1/2" reducer, a 1/2" nipple, and then a surplus spin-on oil filter re-threaded to 1/2" NPT). The old fill/vent/return cluster mess was removed and replaced with a collar, 6" riser, and then an elbow. This will connect to a filter head and then to the hydraulic hose you see laying on top of the tank. That's the return hose that comes from the control valve. I still have to order a filter head and filter.

Top view of same.

This picture shows the new pump with the brand new suction line running under the I-beam and to the elbow in Pic #1. A couple of hydraulic fittings to get the spacing right, then a tee with new gauge (0-5000 psi), hydraulic elbow, and the tube that runs to the valve. I was able to reuse a bunch of old parts here and just put a few new bends in the tube with a conduit bender. It lines up really nicely. That tee is Sch. 80 black iron so it should withstand the pressure (it lasted this long without problems).

I had to use a series of adapters to get the pump to interface with the PTO clutch. The adapter I had made for me, is almost perfect but not quite. All the bolts lined up but the new pump flange did not cover all the bolt holes. I had to seal everything up with RTV but it should keep the rain out. For the shaft, I needed a 5/8" to 7/8" bushing (Fastenal), a 7/8" shaft coupler with set screws (Big Bearing Store), and a piece of 3/16" x 1/4" step key. I had to shorten the shaft coupler by 1" but after that it all went together beautifully.

Another two views of the same.

And an overview of all the changes. You might also notice that I removed the throttle controls and ammeter from the "control panel". That was a whole other project that I'll discuss next.

So last month, I figured that since the pump and plumbing were going to get done soon, I should take some time to fine tune the engine and figure out why the throttle is so touchy to adjust and impossible to maintain a constant engine RPM. The whole throttle setup was rigged with rusty springs and little bits of wire and was just crazy. Figuring it was only like that because someone wanted the controls facing the operator instead of the rear, I took all that apart and re-set everything to factory spec. That made it WAY worse, like the engine would just keep over-speeding no matter where I had the throttle or governor set. I tried everything I could think of, followed the official Wisconsin manual instructions to a "T", but still no good. Just out of frustration, I removed the governor cover to see if the fly weights were stuck or broken, or if the oil pressure line was clogged, but what I found surprised even me. The governor was MISSING entirely! No wonder it was impossible to set or adjust. I bought a governor off eBay, installed it, reset all the linkages properly, and everything started working correctly. Why anyone would just completely remove the governor without replacing it is beyond me. Anyway, part of this project involved moving the governor control back to the factory location and building a crude choke control out of a thin metal rod. The ammeter never worked to begin with so I just eliminated/bypassed it. Someday I will get a new one, along with an oil pressure gauge. There are factory Wisconsin brackets for these.

I still want to tidy up the engine wiring, because everything that was done is way too long and poorly terminated, but it works for now.

All in all, excellent progress and all I need to do now is get the filter head and filter. My dad has a filter head laying around so I'll grab it next time I'm there.


What do you think!?

 

[VirginiaIron]

I like. Good choose in moving the suction line. I guess your suction line appears too close to the ground. Maybe use some sort of beam clamp to support a strap.

 

[salecker]

Nice work
A blend of new and vintage.Still an awesome looking splitter that i would be proud of sitting next to my wood shed.

 

[nezwick]

Oh yeah, also forgot to mention we added a plug to the bottom of the tank to facilitate easier draining. I can see having to change the fluid every year or two? Depending on how quickly it gets re-contaminated.

VirginiaIron, It just so happens I recently bought a box of beam clamps at an auction and had no idea what do do with them. Should be able to utilize one or two for this project.

The "air cylinder" issue is still in the back of my mind, but I have not found a deal on a "hydraulic cylinder" yet. I'm curious to see how this plays out using the existing cylinder. Will use it with a wary eye and safety in mind.


Just like everything around here, it will eventually get a coat of paint. I'm torn between Vietnam-era OD green, Ferguson grey like our 2N will be, or Safety Yellow/Orange. I did the mortar mixer in Safety Yellow and the brush hog in Safety Blue and they both look good.