Local borough has introduced ordinace to ban ALL hydronic boilers in Fairbanks, Alaska

  • Active since 1995, Hearth.com is THE place on the internet for free information and advice about wood stoves, pellet stoves and other energy saving equipment.

    We strive to provide opinions, articles, discussions and history related to Hearth Products and in a more general sense, energy issues.

    We promote the EFFICIENT, RESPONSIBLE, CLEAN and SAFE use of all fuels, whether renewable or fossil.
Status
Not open for further replies.
J

jpowell1979

Member
Hearth Supporter
Oct 28, 2007
63
Fairbanks, AK
www.fairbanksgas.com
(broken link removed to http://www.newsminer.com/view/full_story/6414467/article-Borough-considers-fine-for-pollution-from-wood--coal-smoke?instance=home_most_popular)

My local government has introduced a bill that would ban all hydronic boilers as part of a PM 2.5 program. The bill makes no differentiation between a high efficiency gassifier or one of the giant outdoor smoke monsters that guzzles entire trees.

It also sets a $500 fine for anyone who burns wood over 20% moisture content, funds 3 wood cop positions and a bunch of other rules and regulations.

If you want to look at it the link is : (broken link removed to http://www.co.fairbanks.ak.us/Meetings/Ordinances/2010/2010-17) with memo - map & fiscal note.pdf

Basically if this passes I will have two years to remove my boiler or face a $500 fine every time I use it. It doesn't seem to matter to them that our only other choice for heating is $3/gallon heating oil and we have winter 8 months out of the year. My $12,000 investment to be self reliant and save thousands off heating oil bills is now going to be worthless if this passes. When I bough my Greenwood boiler it had the EPA's highest rating that was supposedly approved for all areas. There are thousands of people who are going to be effected by this and we are going to fight it all the way.

Has anyone else out there had any experience fighting off these kinds of regulations?
 
just look on the forum for all the trouble people in Oregon have thanks to the same kind of stupid nanny state thinking.
 
to be fair, they should not ban already installed boiler and put a tax on new boilers.

if this will pass that will be the beginning of all boiler owners nightmare all over the north america.

they should concentrate on nuclear industry burning coal
 
Fairbanks is a non-attainment area, so some kind of regulation is needed. Wood burning - primarily OWB - is certainly a contributor. The trick will be to make sure that any new rules make a distinction between smoke dragons and clean burning appliances. New EPA standards are on the way, but probably a couple of years away. In the meantime, this can be a real problem for the industry and our customers (existing and potential). Please contact me directly with your thoughts about how we might help. Chris
 
This happening all over the west. A local municipality started regulating wood stoves over 20 yrs ago.
They have exemption's for low income households, and for certain types of low emission pellet burners, but
nothing specific for hydronic units yet. There was something in the news last fall about new federal air quality regulations for
valley areas that have severe air stagnation problems in the winter from temperature inversions. I regularly go into
an area that has these problems, and the pollution is horrible, especially after few weeks of buildup. At times you can't
hardly breath and your throat gets really sore within only a few minutes. I moved out a few years ago in part from
this pollution. Wood burning is getting much of the blame especially for the particulate levels, it's very unhealthy.
The most vile air pollution is in the summer from forest fires especially when the temps go into the 80's+, but
thats a whole different matter.

The high efficiency units might help, but the particulates would need maybe a cyclone separator. Write letters, emails
and get responses in writing. They should grandfather a high efficiency unit if they understand the differences...MM
 
The newspaper link does not say that, the other link is broken.
 
Is it a free country? I don't know anymore. If it's really as bad as one poster said then something needs to be done. In most places they act like a little smoke will kill them and think there is little problem. We need to really get nasty and so mean the government backs off. So far we are like the NRA always told us to be. "Stay polite when talking to your congressmen." I think I'm done being polite, never did any good anyway. Honestly some are getting so mad we are openly disobeying the law. In Sussex Wis. forty people carried guns in their holsters and stood outside of Starbucks. Then went to the state police headquarters and stood there for a while. Wis has an open carry policy but anyone who carries one openly gets arrested for it. Now with forty out there the police decided to leave them all alone. Go figure. Anyway, I think we need a show of force and defiance and intimidate them for once. It won't happen till a bunch of us get so mad that someone ends up dead. No nice way to put it, Sorry.
 
I would be pretty mad if someone set up a Smokey up wind of me.
 
On the other hand some of us have not policed ourselves.
 
AlaskaWoodburner said:
http://www.newsminer.com/view/full_story/6414467/article-Borough-considers-fine-for-pollution-from-wood--coal-smoke?instance=home_most_popular

My local government has introduced a bill that would ban all hydronic boilers as part of a PM 2.5 program. The bill makes no differentiation between a high efficiency gassifier or one of the giant outdoor smoke monsters that guzzles entire trees.
Click to expand...

Can you think of another way to get your neighbors to stop using their smoke dragons consuming all that soft sticky scrub brush that AK folks call trees ?

Do you enjoy looking into the January Squarebanks Fog?

Ill guess no.
 
I love it when people take an attempt to clean up the air.......as akin to one world government and the trilateral commission!

:lol:

The fact is that many people get sick and die each year from stuff we put in the air...from stoves, cars, trucks, industry, open burning, etc.
So this particular "freedom" might look different if you call it "the Freedom to make sure your neighbors and millions of other have asthma and other respiratory illness"

Of course...most regulation do take into account existing units, and often allow them to get to the end of their service life, etc.
Perhaps once they get more info, they will take cleaner burning units into account...I think Greenwood did have some tests done and might have passed EPA first phase of outdoor boilers.

Sometimes the innocent get caught up in these things...but, as mentioned, this is probably best blamed on the companies which have produced and installed 10's of thousands of units which burn extremely dirty.
 
BioHeat Sales Guy said:
Fairbanks is a non-attainment area, so some kind of regulation is needed. Wood burning - primarily OWB - is certainly a contributor. The trick will be to make sure that any new rules make a distinction between smoke dragons and clean burning appliances. New EPA standards are on the way, but probably a couple of years away. In the meantime, this can be a real problem for the industry and our customers (existing and potential). Please contact me directly with your thoughts about how we might help. Chris
Click to expand...

I have read a lot of the states regulations in detail as of late and noticed that most refer back to the EPA (broken link removed to http://www.epa.gov/burnwise/woodboilers.html) for burning guidelines and a list of EPA qualified hydronic heaters.

I know that it can take several years for a new testing guideline to be developed... but there is nothing stopping the EPA from at least including a paragraph about gasification, its benefits, and that there are plans to develop new testing standards in the future. That would at least get it on the states radar that these boilers exist... but the simplest things always seem the most difficult to do in a beaurocracy...
 
From the news article it appears you would be grandfathered in. That's usually what happens
in these deals. Here's what happens over in our capital city in regards to wood burning---->
http://www.co.lewis-clark.mt.us/departments/health/environmental-health-services/air-quality.html

I grew up when the local smelters and mineral plants were in opperation and remember how bad the
pollution was.
I've seen air pollution so bad it etched glass on the windows.
That was from a nearby phosphate fertilizer plant. The locals used to go to sleep with wet washcloths
over their faces. The smoke killed all the trees for miles and made the grass toxic to cattle.
Except for the juniper which is the only species left living in the valley today. Smoke so thick it turned day into night
and you couldn't breath---Garrison MT in the 60's & 70's after the plant was kicked out of Butte and moved to Garrison.
And Governor Babcock had a trucking company with contracts at the plant and all the complaints were covered up
and even when the public sued the courts were corrupt...I remember the floride from the smoke was so bad that the calves were
born with no enamel on their teeth and couldn't drink water because it hurt. I could go on at considerable length....
NO FREEDOM? Indeed---- MM
 
your freedom stop where the neibourght freedom stop
 
Anyone ever drive thru Gary Indiana ? Drive over the mountians into LA ? I don't think its a few people with boilers causing all that smoke do you ?
Any regulation on open fires ? Maybe start a big one right in the front yard of the person (s) suipporting this new regulation . They might get the message well probably not but at least they will be warned .
 
ihookem said:
Is it a free country? I don't know anymore. If it's really as bad as one poster said then something needs to be done. In most places they act like a little smoke will kill them and think there is little problem. We need to really get nasty and so mean the government backs off. So far we are like the NRA always told us to be. "Stay polite when talking to your congressmen." I think I'm done being polite, never did any good anyway. Honestly some are getting so mad we are openly disobeying the law. In Sussex Wis. forty people carried guns in their holsters and stood outside of Starbucks. Then went to the state police headquarters and stood there for a while. Wis has an open carry policy but anyone who carries one openly gets arrested for it. Now with forty out there the police decided to leave them all alone. Go figure. Anyway, I think we need a show of force and defiance and intimidate them for once. It won't happen till a bunch of us get so mad that someone ends up dead. No nice way to put it, Sorry.
Click to expand...

Show up in front of George Bushes house with all that artillery and see what happens. :gulp:
 
Tony H said:
Anyone ever drive thru Gary Indiana ? Drive over the mountians into LA ? I don't think its a few people with boilers causing all that smoke do you ?
Any regulation on open fires ? Maybe start a big one right in the front yard of the person (s) suipporting this new regulation . They might get the message well probably not but at least they will be warned .
Click to expand...

Yep drove thru Gary Ind in the 70's when the steel mills were running, mills are long gone now.

Note that steel making here in the US is now all remelted scrap in induction furnaces.
China and India are where steel is made via the primary process, they
don't regulate air pollution.

I was in LA back in the day of leaded gas, and neither one is anything
near as bad as the pollution in a Mountain Valley town in a winter inversion back before they regulated wood burning stoves.
Threatening someone will get you locked up and a restraining order slapped on ya real fast.
Some union guys tried that crap and got videoed doing it a few years ago and now they can't legally own a gun or ever hunt again after getting a restraining order on them. Real stupid. Out here in the sticks something like that would end badly MM
 
I was looking for info on boilers when I happened by this thread so thought I'd update it. The Fairbanks North Star Borough (FNSB) did pass a wood burning ordinance in June. You can see it here if you wish:

(broken link removed to http://www.aqfairbanks.com/documents/Final-fairbanks-pm2.5-ordinance-2010-28.pdf)

The ordinance exempts pellet stoves, masonry heaters, cook stoves and fireplaces but specifically targets hydronic heaters. A local group has gotten an initiative onto the November ballot that would prohibit any regulation of home heating devices and so effectively repeal this ordinance. As in our national government, the art of compromise seems to have been lost.

At any rate, this ordinance makes it impossible for us to install a boiler in an outbuilding on our property without a variance from the borough, so I am upset, but not upset enough to support the initiative. It's too bad the ordinance could not have been made simple: restrict wood burning devices to Phase II certified units, place limits on smoke emissions and specify the materials that may be burned.

Perhaps we'll look into sectioning off a part of our garage: in that case the chimney height restrictions wouldn't apply. I hate to give up that shop space though.
 
My opinion is we need to weather the storm for a couple of years. Where reason doesn't prevail then class action lawsuits might need to be filed. Most courts follow a "whats reasonable" policy. Unfortunatly it's easy & cheap to just ban all wood boilers. Discriminating between the clean burn & not will cost counties money, so will lawsuits, gives em something to think about, Randy
 
I'm telling you these are proactive attacts. Whenever I hear of someone banning wood burning I'm inclined to start buying oil+gold. The idea that a state rife with petroleum is attempting to ban wood buring is crazy. What's the cost of heating oil in Alaska? It's GOT to be a heck of a lot harder to burn wood for heat there than ANYWHERE else in the country, so what are the odds there's that many people really buring wood?
 
Yep drove thru Gary Ind in the 70's when the steel mills were running, mills are long gone now.

Note that steel making here in the US is now all remelted scrap in induction furnaces.
China and India are where steel is made via the primary process, they
don't regulate air pollution.

Wrong. There are still blast furnaces run in this country at US Steel, AK Steel and Mittal Steel plants. Sure, those companies have induction furnaces at some of their facilites but others within their company are fully integrated.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom