Just how are big is the anti wood smoke?

[keyman512us]

(I'm not pickin on...just a good point) MrGriz:

OWBs are singled out because they are easy to spot and do offend even those of us who heat with wood in a more responsible way. Everyone can drive down the road and point to the OWB belching out smoke and leaving a trail in the wind.

That is a very good observation...But what about the OWB owners that are the other side of the coin? The ones that burn responsibly and could give some of the best stoves on the market a "run for the money"???

Course mine isn't a "true OWB". My neighbor 3 houses down says "I can't understand it...I've been here two years and have yet to see that thing belch any smoke". One of the local board of health members, at the meeting proposing regulations asked after the meeting "You got a web site? ...As much as you have cleaned up the operation of it...your setup would be a model to the OWB manufacturers".

Just today...talking with the director of the BOH..."I've been checking with the fire department as well...neither of us have recieved ANY complaints this year about your set-up..."

Something to be said about good burn practices...and a little 'technology'.

 

[jjbaer]

If that makes me "Paranoid" so be it...I'm Sick and tired of being "taken advantage of"...If I'm leading the 'battle cry'...so be it! There is strength in numbers! The system is broken and somebody better damn well fix it!

The Profit of a few needs to be taken out of the picture...all need to live.

"Current Policy needs to change..."

Your facts, IMHO, are 95% correct. Where I think the paranoia comes is becomes when we are swatting at insects (and larger animals) that are not there!

The way I see it, the problem is easy to find - we can just look in the mirror! It is US, as a whole, that throw out the woodstoves and the solar panels every time oil gets cheap for a few months.

The other stuff is just blips on the radar. When the American public wanted SUV's bigger and bigger, they got them. When and if the American public wants to conserve and change the direction of this country, we can do so just as easily.

The clean burning stoves of today are because of some leftists called the Sierra Club. Yes, they sued the EPA for not properly regulating the stoves - with the result being the standards and the cleanup. Yes, it hurt the industry badly - but it created an entirely new industry and class of stoves. We trounced Europe and the rest of the world in this technology.

There is always a need to listen to the other side - even when they are crazy. The folks at BI do have some valid points - especially the idea of sensitive people having to breathe smoke directly from their neighbors, etc.

So I guess I just don't see a plot - I see a bunch of interests all pushing in various directions....and, ugly as it can be, this is probably the best system.

WEB,...

I agree but these leftists want to selectively ban those things that they either don't understand or don't like while continuing to drive their smog producing SUV's which kill far more people in CA than do wood stoves........they should really be striving to clean up all of these devices and not just cherry-picking those that they don't like....and that's where they're intellectually dishonest......

 

[colsmith]

The environmental movement is facism in disguise.

What are you smoking? I want clean air, I want native prairies left to grow, I want wolves back into the ecosystem, I want to save the whales. What the heck does that have to do with fascism? Oh, did I mention that every lake in my state is polluted with mercury, mainly from coal power plant emissions? And we have a LOT of lakes. Pregnant women and children are supposed to severely limit their intake of any WI caught lake fish, and women in WI have about the highest rate of some kind of cancer (breast cancer I think it was) which is attributed to mercury and PCB poisoning. I am not fascist, I want to live a healthy life!

Castiron, you mention that the leftists drive SUVs, how can you make such a sweeping statement? I drive a Honda Insight and get 50 MPG, dry all my clothes by hanging them up, etc. Most of our lights are CFs. Hubby often turns off the light in a room I am still in! How does letting people pollute at will equal freedom to the paranoid set? I like pollution to be regulated, amount of contaminants in food regulated, etc., thank you very much.

 

[keyman512us]

The environmental movement is facism in disguise.

What are you smoking? I want clean air, I want native prairies left to grow, I want wolves back into the ecosystem, I want to save the whales. What the heck does that have to do with fascism? Oh, did I mention that every lake in my state is polluted with mercury, mainly from coal power plant emissions? And we have a LOT of lakes. Pregnant women and children are supposed to severely limit their intake of any WI caught lake fish, and women in WI have about the highest rate of some kind of cancer (breast cancer I think it was) which is attributed to mercury and PCB poisoning. I am not fascist, I want to live a healthy life!

Castiron, you mention that the leftists drive SUVs, how can you make such a sweeping statement? I drive a Honda Insight and get 50 MPG, dry all my clothes by hanging them up, etc. Most of our lights are CFs. Hubby often turns off the light in a room I am still in! How does letting people pollute at will equal freedom to the paranoid set? I like pollution to be regulated, amount of contaminants in food regulated, etc., thank you very much.

Before this get's out of hand...I understand what Arnz is saying...and I understand what you are saying HOT...

You BOTH make interesting comments...the "polarizing of issues" is the problem here...as well as "Catchy little phrases"...unfortunately anything to do with the enviroment creates "great divides". I would have chosen my words a little more carefully...but there are some "nut jobs" hiding behind the "enviromental movement"...as with any "cause" in todays age.

 

[jjbaer]

Castiron, you mention that the leftists drive SUVs, how can you make such a sweeping statement? I drive a Honda Insight and get 50 MPG, dry all my clothes by hanging them up, etc. Most of our lights are CFs. Hubby often turns off the light in a room I am still in! How does letting people pollute at will equal freedom to the paranoid set? I like pollution to be regulated, amount of contaminants in food regulated, etc., thank you very much.

Hi,

I also drive an SUV and want a clean environment but that's not what I'm talking about....I'm talking about the commie leftist b$#%h in CA on that BI site who only wants "selective" items banned...items like wood burning that she either 1) doesn't understand or 2) just doesn't like, while simultaneously ignoring my comment about her SUV that probably kills more people through smog than wood burning does.......it was meant to point out the hypocrisy of how wacky liberals (not all liberals) want to "cherry pick" those things THEY want banned or don't understand while simultaneously ignoring other pollution sources that they DO like (SUV's, hot tubs that consume much electricity, etc)..........kinda like Al Gore who tells us what not to do but then he has no problem doing these same things at 10 times the level we're doing them at.......

I however, look at these, and being an engineer, I say that the solution is to clean them all up through tighter regulations and better efficiency...you and I can drive our SUV's, burn wood, have hot tubs, etc and still have a cleaner environment.....

 

[MrGriz]

(I'm not pickin on...just a good point) MrGriz:

OWBs are singled out because they are easy to spot and do offend even those of us who heat with wood in a more responsible way. Everyone can drive down the road and point to the OWB belching out smoke and leaving a trail in the wind.

That is a very good observation...But what about the OWB owners that are the other side of the coin? The ones that burn responsibly and could give some of the best stoves on the market a "run for the money"???

Course mine isn't a "true OWB". My neighbor 3 houses down says "I can't understand it...I've been here two years and have yet to see that thing belch any smoke". One of the local board of health members, at the meeting proposing regulations asked after the meeting "You got a web site? ...As much as you have cleaned up the operation of it...your setup would be a model to the OWB manufacturers".

Just today...talking with the director of the BOH..."I've been checking with the fire department as well...neither of us have recieved ANY complaints this year about your set-up..."

Something to be said about good burn practices...and a little 'technology'.

I agree that there are some burning OWBs in a responsible manner. However, I think that is a small percentage of the total of OWBs out there. In fact, I made the point in anohter thread related to the way OWBs are marketed. The fact that you can stuff the fire box full of green wood or just about anything else that will fit in there and turn it into a house full of heat. I believe that marketing attracts a different type of burner than most of those you find here. That burner is only concerned with filling the fire box as infrequently as possible and saving money on his / her heating bill. They, for the most part, don't seem to care about the true efficiency or emission of their burning.

Hopefully with more emission restrictions placed on OWBs, their marketing approach will change to one that touts clean, efficient burning. We know it can be done, it's just a matter of getting eveyone on the same page.

 

[ansehnlich1]

Aw heck, I wasn't gonna post to this thread again, but I couldn't help myself.

A. I don't smoke, or drink, for that matter.

B. Me and the Czech President have something in common:

5:38 a.m. March 21, 2007

PRAGUE – Czech President Vaclav Klaus said on Wednesday that fighting global warming has turned into a a 'religion' that replaced the ideology of communism and threatens to clip basic freedoms.

C. Linky - http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/world/20070321-0538-czech-environment-.html

 

[begreen]

Yeah. Time to get naked and dance around a bonfire in praise of Gaia. Happy Spring!

 

[WOODBURNER1]

I agree that there are some burning OWBs in a responsible manner. However, I think that is a small percentage of the total of OWBs out there. In fact, I made the point in anohter thread related to the way OWBs are marketed. The fact that you can stuff the fire box full of green wood or just about anything else that will fit in there and turn it into a house full of heat.

Most of the OWF manufacturers either have the HPBA "Best Burn Practices" decal on the stove or in the installation manual. The literature that I have seen from the larger OWF manufacturers also promote the same. Do you have an example of an OWF manufacturer that promotes burning "just about anything else that will fit in there"?

 

[MrGriz]

I agree that there are some burning OWBs in a responsible manner. However, I think that is a small percentage of the total of OWBs out there. In fact, I made the point in anohter thread related to the way OWBs are marketed. The fact that you can stuff the fire box full of green wood or just about anything else that will fit in there and turn it into a house full of heat.

Most of the OWF manufacturers either have the HPBA "Best Burn Practices" decal on the stove or in the installation manual. The literature that I have seen from the larger OWF manufacturers also promote the same. Do you have an example of an OWF manufacturer that promotes burning "just about anything else that will fit in there"?

I'll admit that I've never been interested enough in one to dig deeply into the manual or look closely at a unit. It just seems to me that evey time I hear someone pitching one they talk about the ability to burn green wood, construction scraps, pallets or treated lumber along with seasoned firewood. That's also one of the 'redeeming' qualities that owners of OWBs tout about their setup. I sure don't hear the majority of owners or manufacturers talk about how clean burning their units are.

 

[jjbaer]

I agree that there are some burning OWBs in a responsible manner. However, I think that is a small percentage of the total of OWBs out there. In fact, I made the point in anohter thread related to the way OWBs are marketed. The fact that you can stuff the fire box full of green wood or just about anything else that will fit in there and turn it into a house full of heat.

Most of the OWF manufacturers either have the HPBA "Best Burn Practices" decal on the stove or in the installation manual. The literature that I have seen from the larger OWF manufacturers also promote the same. Do you have an example of an OWF manufacturer that promotes burning "just about anything else that will fit in there"?

Using dry wood is the best practice for OWB's or EPA approved stoves but even using dry wood, OWB's are particulate belchers when compared to EPA approved stoves....and that's the problem and that's why they (OWB's) need to be more highly regulated......

 

[webbie]

OWB sales are often made through roadside places - like fence or trailer retailers. You better believe they know virtually nothing about clean burning and I have personally heard all about the green wood, stumps, etc.

There were a number of OWB's at the show - I could easily fit two people inside the fireboxes of many of them. It doesn't take much common sense to figure out how much wood is needed to attain critical mass (efficient burning)....even given good practice!

 

[babalu87]

Wood boilers for some applications out there is equivalent to this picture