Jotul Firelight model 12 repair or replace

[jsb]

Hi, Looking for some help.
I currently have a 14 year old firelight model 12 which needs to be rebuilt. The rebuild will cost $1000.00
for parts which include 1 door glass, the rear burn plate, the inner back plate, both log retainers, the ash door handle knob, the catalyst chamber, catalyst chamber cover and the catalyst combustor along with all the necessary gaskets.
I am hoping to repair the cat chamber, Has anyone ever done this, I hope I can as the chamber cost about $250.00, and I could reduce my cost by almost that if I can repair it.

My second option is to replace the current stove with a newer, better one.
The new stove would need to fit where the current one is, and have no bigger footprint unless the clearance requirements are less. Current footprint is 29 wide x 26 1/2" depth. It requires 12" clearance from the rear corners of the top to the walls and 16 " from the pipe outlet to the walls. It is a corner installation.
It uses a 6" flue.
Because the stove sets in a corner I would prefer a top loader as the current one since side loading would appear to be awkward. I would entertain a front loader but again I believe that would be messy.
I would like to get away from the catalyst combustor type as they get expensive too.
My current stove is just adequate during the coldest days of winter.
In my jotul manual it says that the Firelight 12 is rated between 10,500 and 32,500 BTUs per hour. I think I would go larger if I could. Also these ratings are from 1997, are current stove rating calculated the same.
I would entertain a soapstone as I hear they give off heat forever. No steel, I tried that and the heat curve is too steep for my liking.
My firebox is approx. 20" x 10" x 12" which I think is about 1.4 cu ft.

Now some background:
We live in a very old house pre. 1750, The room that the stove is located in is 30' by 15' with a 7 ' ceiling with a 12-6 pitch attic above and a dirt cellar below.
The stove is located in the southwest corner of the room directly opposite an entryway into the main house in the northeast corner. There is a large double paned window (5' x4') midway on the west wall of the room. there are 2 2-8 double paned, double hung windows midway on the east wall. There is also an stairwell upto the second floor of the main house. The floor is carpeted, except for the hearth area for the stove.
During late fall and late spring we generally start a fire in the morning and let it go out, just to take the morning chill out of the room. When the days start getting colder we generally run the stove 24-7, loading it as needed and running it 3/4 open with a full load and the cat engaged. In the evening, about 10:00 pm I load it up, let it get going good, engage the cat and damper it down almost all the way. The next morning the room temp is about 60-64 when I open it up at about 7:00 am. At that point it is in need of fuel. I load it up and start over. I generally feed it hourly, keeping it hot and full.
The room does not have any other heat source except for what enters the room through the entryway.
We keep a curtain covering the stairwell as we don't want all the heat to go upstairs. If we did not have the curtain up, the upstairs would go up to 90 degrees. We generally keep the room between 70 and 78 during the winter.
We burn between 3 -4 cords of seasoned hardwood each year with a burn season starting around Oct 1 and running until the end of May.
Thanks in advance for any help/ opinions.
John

 

[BrowningBAR]

A few things:
1. Ignore BTU output claims. Just go by firebox size. The Jotul firelight is about 3 cu ft. Meaning, if you want more heat, you will need a larger firebox. No other way around it. Although you dimensions of "20" x 10" x 12" which I think is about 1.4 cu ft" confuses me.

2. Loading methods: I too love top loading. I have two stoves that top load. But, I will be replacing the third stove with a front load stove. Will it be messier? I don't think so and if it is, it wouldn't be by much.

3."loading it as needed and running it 3/4 open with a full load and the cat engaged."
That seems odd. With dry wood on a modern stove, you should be able to have the air controls closed down much further than that and maintain high temps, whether it is a cat stove or not.

 

[jsb]

How do you come up with 3 cu ft? The very most I can come up with which I do not consider usable space is 2.4 cu ft. This is how I measure it and my thoughts behind it.
I measure with the idea of "how much split wood of a certain length can I put in the firebox. Is that a bad assumption? Anyway here is how I did it.
figuring I can place a logs or splits that are 20 inches long in laying flat. The usable depth being the area between the log retainers and the decorative back plate which I measure at 10 inches. The height I can stack the splits upto I estimated based on how full I normally fill it, which I measured at 12 inches, giving me a total of 2400 cu inches.

 

[begreen]

3 cu ft = the maximum interior volume which is not necessarily the normal useable volume of the stove.

 

[firefighterjake]

Random thoughts . . .

Sounds like you're leaning towards replacing rather than repairing . . . and only need us to provide some more arguments to do so. Honestly, I think you could go either way, but it really does seem like you would like to get a newer stove based on how you describe the current stove as just being adequate on very cold days, you would like to go larger, you dislike buying new cats, etc.

Front load . . . Not all front loaders are created equal. Some folks have zero issues with mess . . . others like me and my Oslo almost always end up with a mess if I go with the front load. Side loads . . . Typically not all that awkward . . . in fact I find them quite easy . . . I'm not really sure how they would be awkward.

Soapstone . . . if you're against steel, the inexpensive and beloved Englander line is out of the running . . . and if you like soapstone, but dislike cats, the well praised Woodstock line would be out of the running . . . leaving several lines of cast iron stoves and in soapstone pretty much the only other game in town -- other than some odd balls -- would be Hearthstone.

Curious . . . it almost sounds as if you're running your current stove like an old smoke dragon . . . as mentioned previously, most folks engage the cat, but also close down the air . . . your description of closing the air at night with the cat engaged sounds good, but very similar (minus engaging the cat) to what folks used to do with the old smoke dragons . . . and feeding the stove hourly is odd . . . most folks tend to run the stove in cycles which prevents excessive coaling.

 

[jsb]

My thought on the firebox size is what good is it if you can't load it with wood, That is why I guestimate the size based on what I believe Is the area I can place wood into.

FIrefighter Jake,
I really am actually leaning toward a rebuild, its kinda like the "devil you know vs the one you have to learn to love".
My point about the awkwardness of the side load is based on my stove being installed in a corner. I also have read that the jutul 600 is prohibited from corner installation with a side door. Does anyone have any insight into that?
My reasons for cast iron or soapstone is the "heat curve", I have had steel stoves "avalon and Lopi" and both gave off great heat, kept the window clean but when the fuel burns down, the stove gets cold quickly. I have never had a soapstone but have heard that they continue to radiate heat for a long period of time.
As far as a Cat vs No-Cat. The Cat is just another part to change every few years, and the newer Non-cats are supposed to do the same thing through the reburn process.

As far as the "Smoke Dragon" comment, The cat is currently shot and will be part of the rebuild.

Some new questions I have is.

When you load you stove up with wood, get it going good, what surface or stack temperature do you shoot for to maintain?
How long are you able to maintain that temperature for before having to reload?
How often do you reload?

 

[jsb]

Also for anyone interested, I'm posting a couple of pictures of the disasembled inside of my Jotul Firelight model 12 along with pictures of the parts I need to replace or repair.
I believe the burned out inner backing was from when the knob on the ash door slipped and caused a hot fire.

The parts I'm hoping to repair are the face of the catalyst chamber. Has anyone ever tried that type of repair?

 

[jsb]

I believe the burned out inner backing was from when the knob on the ash door slipped and caused a hot fire.

 

[BrowningBAR]

My thought on the firebox size is what good is it if you can't load it with wood, That is why I guestimate the size based on what I believe Is the area I can place wood into.

That's fine, but it is still listed as a 3 cu ft stove. When comparing other models, you need to start somewhere and firebox size is a more reliable spec to use than BTU output.

 

[Ashful]

I am hoping to repair the cat chamber, Has anyone ever done this, I hope I can as the chamber cost about $250.00, and I could reduce my cost by almost that if I can repair it.

I also replaced my cat chamber this winter. I could not find a way of repairing that was worth the effort.

My second option is to replace the current stove with a newer, better one.

What new stove is better?

The new stove would need to fit where the current one is, and have no bigger footprint unless the clearance requirements are less. Current footprint is 29 wide x 26 1/2" depth. It requires 12" clearance from the rear corners of the top to the walls and 16 " from the pipe outlet to the walls. It is a corner installation.

The Jotul Firelight 600 has the same dimensions, but is not a top loader.

In my jotul manual it says that the Firelight 12 is rated between 10,500 and 32,500 BTUs per hour. I think I would go larger if I could. Also these ratings are from 1997, are current stove rating calculated the same.

That rating is based on the standard EPA test, and only useful for comparing to the EPA test numbers of other stoves. Marketing literature for stoves is usually based on max cord wood output, although you can often find both sets of numbers in the stove manuals. I believe your stove has a max output of at least 70,000 BTU on cord wood.

We burn between 3 -4 cords of seasoned hardwood each year

How long are you seasoning your wood? This was the biggest stove in Jotul's lineup, and was rated for heating 2000 - 2500 square feet. You may be dumping a lot of heat into evaporation. Does your stove glass stay clean, or does it it get soot on it?

 

[jsb]

I also replaced my cat chamber this winter. I could not find a way of repairing that was worth the effort.

Was your chamber in a similar shape as mine? I think I get a piece of Kaowool for under $100.00 that I could make a new face out of. I think that would be the right stuff to use. I would also need some type of adhesive, probably about $20.00.

What new stove is better?

That is the big question.

The Jotul Firelight 600 has the same dimensions, but is not a top loader.

You are not supposed to use the side door with a corner installation from what I have read so I would be forced to use the front door only.

That rating is based on the standard EPA test, and only useful for comparing to the EPA test numbers of other stoves. Marketing literature for stoves is usually based on max cord wood output, although you can often find both sets of numbers in the stove manuals. I believe your stove has a max output of at least 70,000 BTU on cord wood.



How long are you seasoning your wood? This was the biggest stove in Jotul's lineup, and was rated for heating 2000 - 2500 square feet. You may be dumping a lot of heat into evaporation. Does your stove glass stay clean, or does it it get soot on it?

I generally season my wood for 6-9 months stacked 12' x 7' by 18 to 20 inches multiple rows under a metal shed roof. My glass is generally clean except in the morning after burning all night with the draft closed.

 

[Ashful]

9 months covered outdoors in Connecticut is generally good for softwood, but most would tell you that's too short a seasoning for many hardwoods. It might be worth splitting a piece of your 9 month wood and checking it with a moisture meter (you can buy one cheap at Lowes), if in doubt. Stacking in single rows does help speed things up.

My chamber was damaged in a different way. The corners / ends were eaten off by a squirrel, so it was more than just replacing the front panel. If you're sure you can make a satisfactory repair for $120, it might be worth a try. I was more in the mentality of, "if I'm taking this whole thing apart, I just want it like new when I put it all back together."

The most important question is, if the parts you were shown are so badly damaged, are you sure there's not anything else damaged? Spending $1000 to get a like-new Jotul Firelight 12 is a fantastic deal, but spending $1000 and then finding out there's some other major problem would really suck!

Some would tell you to go to a newer non-cat stove, but others are actively switching back to cat stoves. It's really just a matter of personal preference, and both have their advantages.

 

[begreen]

The stove appears to be rode hard and far beyond where I would have done a rebuild. My concern would be other damage done by waiting too long.

 

[BrowningBAR]

The stove appears to be rode hard and far beyond where I would have done a rebuild. My concern would be other damage done by waiting too long.

Especially considering you can get a used firelight in good condition for less than a grand in the Northeast if you are willing to travel a bit.

 

[firefighterjake]

My thought on the firebox size is what good is it if you can't load it with wood, That is why I guestimate the size based on what I believe Is the area I can place wood into.

FIrefighter Jake,
I really am actually leaning toward a rebuild, its kinda like the "devil you know vs the one you have to learn to love".
My point about the awkwardness of the side load is based on my stove being installed in a corner. I also have read that the jutul 600 is prohibited from corner installation with a side door. Does anyone have any insight into that?
My reasons for cast iron or soapstone is the "heat curve", I have had steel stoves "avalon and Lopi" and both gave off great heat, kept the window clean but when the fuel burns down, the stove gets cold quickly. I have never had a soapstone but have heard that they continue to radiate heat for a long period of time.
As far as a Cat vs No-Cat. The Cat is just another part to change every few years, and the newer Non-cats are supposed to do the same thing through the reburn process.

As far as the "Smoke Dragon" comment, The cat is currently shot and will be part of the rebuild.

Some new questions I have is.

When you load you stove up with wood, get it going good, what surface or stack temperature do you shoot for to maintain?
How long are you able to maintain that temperature for before having to reload?
How often do you reload?

HehHeh . . . wouldn't be the first time I was wrong . . . and probably not the last.

I think you could still go either way . . . but as another poster suggested, you might take a look out there and see if there are any decent used deals . . . if there was a steal or at least a good deal on a used stove that would suit your needs and desires I might go that route rather than spend all the time and energy fixing up an old stove.

Ah . . . cat being shot . . . that explains why you're running the stove in the way you have been as if it was a smoke dragon. Makes sense now.

To answer your new questions . . . my stove temp is usually around 450-600 degrees . . . since I burn in cycles it stays at that temp for a bit and then once we get to the coaling stage the temp starts to slowly fall, but I typically don't see a huge variance in the temp in the house . . . I tend to reload every 4-7 hours if I am up and around . . . at night I load up at 9:30 p.m. and have enough coals to easily get the fire going again with kindling or small splits by 5 a.m. with my Jotul Oslo.

As for side loading . . . I'm not sure with the F-600 . . . I know the Oslo did or does prohibit side loading with a corner install . . . some folks here figure that it may be due to concerns over distance to clearances or that it wasn't tested by the certifiying lab in that configuration . . . I don't think it's an issue of it being awkward to load from the side vs. from the front that would cause Jotul to not allow side loading with the corner configuration.

 

[begreen]

I think the side loading in a corner restriction is mostly based on clearances to combustibles. Imagine someone having a nearby window with curtains that opens the generous F600 side door, with a stove loaded with some sparky, popping wood. Could be an instant disaster. FWIW, I have not missed side or top-loading with the Alderlea and find that I get very few if any burns these days with the big front loader.

In used I'd also be on the look out for a nice Quad Isle Royale.

 

[Ashful]

Especially considering you can get a used firelight in good condition for less than a grand in the Northeast if you are willing to travel a bit.

Replacement with something used may be an option, but I'll bet most used Firelight 12's require at least a cat, cat cover, and maybe rear burn plate. So, add $300 to that purchase price. The cat is a wear item, and the other two components are easily and often damaged by those less than careful.

What little we've seen of the old stove does make it appear it's been used hard. My 1993 model (inherited) looked new, with the exception of a hairline crack in the rear burn plate, and a very old cat. Unfortunately, a mid-season squirrel in the stove forced a rebuild earlier than planned, but now it's like new. I'm glad I did it, but my cost was only $600.