Jotul F45 Chimney Installation Questions

[msal]

Ok, makes sense since Durock seems to be a bit more porous. I'm now thinking this for the floor: one layer plywood, one layer 1/2" Durock, and then grout/tile. My only concern with this is flexing or cracking. Do you think just sticking with 1/2" plywood (instead of 3/8" or so) would give me enough strength?

The room has a laminate floating floor (probably ~8mm thickness). It was installed (poorly) before we bought the house and we will need to replace it eventually. Further down the rabbit hole I go. Should I lay the hearth pad directly on the subfloor? This way when we re-do the floor eventually, I don't have to move the stove... I hadn't considered this. Even if I go with the hearth pad, I would still have to move the stove to re-do the floor underneath. Going with a 'more permanent' hearth pad directly on the sub-floor might save me a headache down the road...

 

[begreen]

I like 3/4" plywood for a stiffer base but 1/2" is better than 3/8". If you plan on changing the flooring soon then preparing in advance is a good idea. Our pad is set on the subfloor for exactly this reason. We redid the floors a month after the stove was installed.

 

[msal]

I like 3/4" plywood for a stiffer base but 1/2" is better than 3/8". If you plan on changing the flooring soon then preparing in advance is a good idea. Our pad is set on the subfloor for exactly this reason. We redid the floors a month after the stove was installed.

We will definitely be replacing the floor in the near-ish future. I still want 3/4" plywood over the subfloor, correct? Here is what I'm thinking now for layers, top to bottom:

[stove]
[grout/tile]
[1/2" Durock]
[3/4" plywood]
[subfloor]

Any special hardware or anything to be aware of? I'm guessing no, since it will all be covered up by tile. Thanks again begreen!

 

[begreen]

Sounds good. Just follow directions for installing the durock and use their special 1.25" screws for the install. A good thing about having the hearth to build around for the floor guys is that they can do a nice edging border to make it look more finished.

 

[msal]

Alright, I'm getting down there on questions regarding the hearth pad but still have a few left . I've never tiled in my life but I've watched videos on it, etc. I figure now is as good a time as any to try it. Any particular (heat resistant maybe?) kind of grout I should look for? I watched a video a while back of someone building a hearth, and he put something like 100 screws in the thing (every 3-4"). I don't need to go crazy here, right? I can't imagine it's going to help structurally. Just wanted to make sure it isn't something I should pay attention to carefully. (I like asking a million questions too apparently haha).

In regards to the wall protection - I've got 2 electrical outlets at standard height, both toward the edge of where my wall protection would extend to (one on each side). If I were to cut out the outlets, I am thinking it would just be a notch on each side of the Durock. How do I handle this? I'll have to measure to be sure, hopefully they are out of range of the wall protection and it won't be an issue.

 

[begreen]

I think it is a screw every 8". Use latex modified thinset for the tile and normal grout.

 

[firefighterjake]

Building a hearth is one of the most rewarding projects a wood burner can do . . . since the stove is often a focus in the room you will find yourself often looking at the hearth . . . and marveling at its beauty . . . and will take pride in the workmanship whether it is your first tiling job or the latest of many. Building a hearth truly is a great project -- partly because it often results in saving money and partly since you can design it to fit your own needs (whether it be size or R-value requirement) -- but mostly because it provides the backdrop to your stove and I guarantee you will be looking at this every day when winter hits.

The key to building your own hearth I believe is to take your time, plan things out and not skip any steps . . . take the time to lay out things as you want them before setting the tile into place with the mortar. Start with a good foundation and you should not have any issues with cracking. In my own case I doubled up the plywood with two layers, added the 1/2 inch Durock and used the specified Durock screws every 6 or 8 inches and then mortared in thin slate tile with modified latex thinset . . . to date not a one has cracked.

 

[msal]

Building a hearth is one of the most rewarding projects a wood burner can do . . . since the stove is often a focus in the room you will find yourself often looking at the hearth . . . and marveling at its beauty . . . and will take pride in the workmanship whether it is your first tiling job or the latest of many. Building a hearth truly is a great project -- partly because it often results in saving money and partly since you can design it to fit your own needs (whether it be size or R-value requirement) -- but mostly because it provides the backdrop to your stove and I guarantee you will be looking at this every day when winter hits.

The key to building your own hearth I believe is to take your time, plan things out and not skip any steps . . . take the time to lay out things as you want them before setting the tile into place with the mortar. Start with a good foundation and you should not have any issues with cracking. In my own case I doubled up the plywood with two layers, added the 1/2 inch Durock and used the specified Durock screws every 6 or 8 inches and then mortared in thin slate tile with modified latex thinset . . . to date not a one has cracked.

Yep, I'm finding the majority of my time has been spent planning, making sure I don't skip ahead and end up with a hole in my ceiling in the wrong spot .

I am heading out tonight to buy a SuperVent double-wall ceiling kit from Lowes. I've already got the stove placed exactly in the ideal spot (with clearances taken into consideration, etc.). Here's the plan:

Use my plum bob to find the dead center on the ceiling of my pipe, and put a screw into the ceiling. From there I'll go up to the attic and install the ceiling support piece, making sure to hit the distance from the left wall exactly. The distance from the rear wall can move a bit to make sure it fits nicely between ceiling joists. This depends on the width of the ceiling support piece. Based on my joists, I might have to back the stove away from the rear wall a bit but I'm not sure yet.

Once I have my ceiling piece in, I'll move the stove again to get it aligned with the ceiling adapter, using my plum bob. Once the stove is in place, I'll masking tape around the stove on the floor to map out my minimum floor protection. From here I'll know the minimum dimensions of the hearth, and we can start shopping for tile with that in mind. I'll stick with full tile pieces if possible, even if it makes my hearth floor a little larger than necessary. Then I'll dry fit everything on my plywood, cut my plywood, dry fit again, and then I can cut out my floor piece and start building up the hearth.

A question regarding clearances - if I have a 5 inch clearance from the corner of the stove to combustibles (when using wall protection), that means I need 5 inches of space between the stove and the combustible wall, right? Not 5 inches between the edge of the stove and my wall protection (e.g. durock or tile)?

Also still wondering about my electrical outlets. I think they will almost be covered by the wall protection if I didn't do anything special.

 

[msal]

I picked up the SuperVent ceiling kit and three 6"x36" SuperVent chimney pipe segments. I guess Lowes does not stock (or have on their site) double wall stove pipe which is a bummer. However, the guy at the customer service desk said that SuperVent is manufactured by Selkirk, and that if I can give them a Selkirk part # they can order it for me. He also assured me that the Selkirk parts should fit together with SuperVent. Now to dig up a part # for double wall black stove pipe by Selkirk...

For anyone else considering going to Lowes and looking for a deal.., I had registered for a 'moving day' coupon ahead of time. This gave me 10% off my entire purchase. I also had them price match Menards, and showed them prices on my phone. This saved me another $10/chimney pipe segment. Then I put it on my Lowes card and got interest free financing for 6 months. Not bad, I think I saved about $75!

I'll probably go to HD for my hearth supplies and have them match the 10% moving coupon from Lowes!!

 

[begreen]

Just notch out for the outlets but tell us more about the build plan for the wall protection.

 

[msal]

I need to call Lowes to special order those parts. The part #s are DSP6SA-1 (Selkirk double wall stove pipe 6" connector) and DSP6TL (Selkirk double wall stove pipe 6" telescopic length). The customer service rep at Lowes made it sound like they work with Selkirk over the phone and try to ensure that parts will fit together. I'm definitely going to mention this, I want them to check that these will work with the ceiling kit I've already bought before they order.

The gap I need to fill is 66", from the flue collar to the ceiling as of right now. Once the ceiling adapter is installed I am guessing it comes down a couple of inches. Plus, the stove connector above will take up a few inches above the flue collar. I'm also not taking into consideration the hearth, which will probably account for another inch. All in all that will probably leave something like 60" for the telescoping connector to fill. Do you guys think I'll have enough double wall interior pipe here? The telescoping length works from 38" to 68". I think my real question is, is it bad to have the telescoping length stretched out at 60+", or am I better off including another 6" or 12" fixed length segment so the telescoping length is less 'stretched'. Probably a dumb question and I should just go with it, but sometimes anything 'telescoping' gets pretty weak structurally once you expand it to the maximum length.

 

[begreen]

I have the long DVL telescoping pipe almost at its max dimension in the greenhouse. Once it got all screwed together is is nice and rigid.

What is the plan for wall protection? This is a common place where we see mistake made.

 

[msal]

The basic plan right now is 1/2" Durock with 1" spacers (not sure if I'll use copper piping or just buy spacers). I'll go from ~1" above the hearth floor to 6+" above the top of the flue collar. The wife doesn't like the idea of matching the tile on the hearth floor with the wall - we'll probably go with tile on the floor and some fake rock looking stuff on the wall. We are also still debating just going exposed Durock for the walls for now and making it look nice next season. This is still up in the air.

I have also waited to come up with a concrete plan until the chimney is in and the hearth floor is down. I figure the stove might move a little bit depending on my ceiling joist placement. Once I'm sure on my minimum hearth floor measurements, the tile size may dictate how big we end up going with the floor (we may go over the minimum so tiles stay whole). My original plan was to continue the edge of the hearth floor right up the wall. Because of this, I'm not sure how wide the wall protection will be on each wall.

Is it atypical to have a 'skinnier' wall protection than the hearth floor? I am pretty sure that if I follow the edge of the hearth floor up the wall, I will have to cut out notches for outlets on each side. However, if I bring the wall protection in 6" or so the outlets will be outside of the wall protection. I'm not sure if I would still meet minimum clearances if I did this, I'll have to measure from the side of my stove to the wall when it's in it's final spot.

Hopefully that all makes sense! I'm waiting to hear back from Lowes about my stove pipe. Until then I'm afraid to open anything that I've already bought haha.

Any opinions on class A locking bands? The guy at Lowes recommended them but I didn't think they were necessary. I can't imagine the class A pipe would unscrew enough to disconnect, or at all really...

 

[begreen]

My original plan was to continue the edge of the hearth floor right up the wall.

This is where some folks make the mistake. There needs to be at least a 1" air gap between the hearth and the bottom start of the wall. However you can drop down "feet" for the wall at the studs so that there are just slots instead of one continuous opening. Does that make sense? Also, you can snap off 3" strips from the sheet of Durock to create 1/2" thick furring strips. Double them up on each stud and you have the 1" gap.

 

[msal]

Ah, feet might give the whole thing a more continuous look, rather than having the wall look like it's completely detached from the floor... Yep, the furring strips make sense also, not sure which option I'll go with yet for spacing but that one might be it. This will also give a solid border along the sides of the walls which will be easier to add my trim to when I get to that point.

Do you think having strips of vertical air space rather than just using spacers around screws has any noticeable affect on air flow behind the wall? My guess is it doesn't really make a difference since the vertical airflow is the important part.

Do you score and snap off Durock to make strips (like drywall) or do you cut it? I've read of both methods. I would be worried with small 3" strips that I wouldn't get a clean break.

 

[msal]

This is where some folks make the mistake. There needs to be at least a 1" air gap between the hearth and the bottom start of the wall. However you can drop down "feet" for the wall at the studs so that there are just slots instead of one continuous opening. Does that make sense? Also, you can snap off 3" strips from the sheet of Durock to create 1/2" thick furring strips. Double them up on each stud and you have the 1" gap.

I just re-read this begreen - I meant with a 1" gap. By 'continuing' I meant extending the wall to the edge of the floor pad. So if my floor pad stuck out 4 feet from the back wall, I would extend the left wall protection out 4 feet to align it with the floor. Either way though your comment was still helpful since I was going to raise the entire board up an inch. The feet will look nicer IMO.

What do you think about having walls that are 'skinnier' than the hearth pad floor? Using my example above, if the hearth came out 4 feet from the back wall, I would only extend the left wall 3 feet. I'm not sure if this would look funny or what, but it might look better than having to notch out electrical outlets, and I think I would still meet clearances.

 

[begreen]

Get a pencil and paper and sketch out lots of alternatives. It's cheap and could be fun. Consider maybe making a wood frame for the vertical surround or a contrasting stone veneer. Or a window box look where the frame is thicker stone.

 

[msal]

I've ordered those two remaining stove parts through Lowes. I was going to order them online (e.g. Menards) which is substantially cheaper, but I really don't want to deal with returns if necessary. I figure that they could arrive dented or there is even a chance that the Selkirk pipe won't play nice with the SuperVent connector. One more thing to check off the list haha.

 

[msal]

Hmm, something I hadn't thought of before - I'm not sure whether or not the double wall stove pipe (interior) will fit into my ceiling stove pipe connector. It's possible the stove pipe connector (the piece that connects pipe to the ceiling adapter) from my ceiling kit works with single wall stove pipe only. Any insight on this? I can't test fit them because I'm waiting a week or two for the parts to come in. If I need more parts I am hoping to order them soon rather than having to wait another 2 weeks after that!

 

[begreen]

According to the catalog Supervent part #JSC6ASE is supposed to work with either single or double-wall stove pipe.

 

[msal]

Awesome, thanks begreen! After I saw your comment I looked and saw the same information from the SuperVent item. Seems like I will be all set.

 

[msal]

My stove manual states that with wall protection my minimum clearance to the walls (when in a corner) is 3.5". By definition, this is minimum distance to a combustible correct? Before I cut the hole in my ceiling I want to be sure that this 3.5" clearance is from the combustible wall, not from the surface of the wall protection. If the latter, I actually need to be a minimum of ~5.25" away from the drywall (assuming my wall protection sticks out 1.75").

Can anyone (probably you begreen haha) confirm that I just need to be that far from the drywall (combustible) rather than the protection? I would hate to put a hole in the wrong spot!

On a side note, this seems very close. The back corners of my stove will end up being ~1.75" away from the wall protection. Is it OK to go with the absolute minimum, or should I leave a little buffer? My wife wants the stove as far back as we can get it.

 

[Grisu]

3.5" to the combustible wall. If you look in the manual at the figure (14) you will actually see how the tip of one of the arrows stops at the wall. The center of the flue should then be 12.5" from the wall horizontally and vertically if I interpret their drawing correctly.

Is it OK to go with the absolute minimum, or should I leave a little buffer?

In principal it is ok but I would still give it a tad more just to make sure you really have the minimum at both corners at the end.

 

[begreen]

Jotul's wall shield clearances for this stove are very close. That's a tribute to the effectiveness of the wall shielding. However, I would bring the stove a bit more out into the room so that the flue is a bit more forward too. The reason being that if you decided to go to a larger stove you may still have a straight up run to the ceiling. There's no harm in exceeding minimums.

 

[msal]

Thanks guys. I think I have to go about an additional inch away from the walls. Not sure if this is strictly modulars, but in the attic there is a skinny V extending from the floor of the attic to the roof rather than straight up to the peak. In order to avoid running into the top of this V I need to come out about an additional inch so my hole in the roof won't be over it. That still might be enough to accommodate a bigger stove, but that's part of the reason why we went with the Jotul, so we could get close to the wall. If I go any further from the wall I would have to jump to the next joist I think which would bring the stove a lot further away from the back wall (although I'm really trying to stay close to the side wall, coming out into the room isn't so much of a problem).

Make sense? I think I'm about to cut the hole... hoping I didn't screw anything up!