Jotul f400

[NJburner87]

Hi all,

New to the forum, wondering if you could help me out.

I have a f400 with completely straight 16' chimney (6" double wall). The stove is finicky to say the least and it burns hot! It seems that the hotter the stove gets, the hotter it wants to continue getting. I will say I live on a mountain overlooking a large field and it gets super windy. I had the company come check the stove for leaks and they confirmed that is air tight. They did say that my draft is too strong, nearly 1.5x jotul's recommended limit. But did not offer any advice on how to remedy.

I installed a manual damper, which kept the fire under control. But now the problem is that if I load the stove up and bank it down, it leaves a TON of unburned charcoal and it's a complete waste. If I'm home I can control it, but if I'm at work I just come home to 4 inches of charcoal.

I'm at a loss of my wits with how to approach this stove.

I've never had the stove burn over 650 degrees (thermometer top right of stove top), but at 600 degrees the center of the stove top starts becoming a dull red, the secondaries are burning like torches, and the air wash plate will glow.

Any ideas????

 

[NJburner87]

Also, I burn the stove with the air control 1/4 to 1/8 open. So it's not like I'm letting the stove rage.

 

[begreen]

600-650 and even 700F is not unusual for this stove with a full load of dry wood, especially if it's softwood. Try turning the air down all the way after the fire is burning well. Will it still keep burning and not smoldering? If so, maybe close the pipe damper halfway instead of all the way to see if that moderates the fire. Did the dealer mention chimney caps for windy areas as a possible remedy?

This is where Jotul recommends placing the thermometer. It could be possible that your thermometer is reading low. Do you have another to verify its accuracy?

 

[NJburner87]

Thanks for the reply. Much appreciated. I think I am going to look into a high wind chimney cap. I have my thermometers placed in those two spots and both read the same. What frightens me is that the thermometers will show 600 degrees, and the center of the stove top is starting to turn red. I don't understand it.

 

[NJburner87]

Here is a pic.

 

[webby3650]

Have you tried a different thermometer? I’m very skeptical of that thermometer being accurate.

 

[begreen]

Have you tried a different thermometer? I’m very skeptical of that thermometer being accurate.

Yes, me too. that dull red area has to be about 900F+.

The F400 should be a pretty well behaved stove. For frame of reference, our stove was on a 20' flue and never had an issue with overfiring. I'd also be looking for an air leak. The two doors are the first areas to check. Make sure that the ash pan door is closing tightly. Ash can build up behind the ashpan, pushing it forward enough to prevent the ashpan door from closing tightly. I'd also do a dollar bill test on the main door to make sure the door gasket is sealing well all the way around. Also check the air control to be sure that it is engaged with the slider valve. Do this by removing the doghouse cover in the front center, inside the stove. I think this has two 10mm bolts holding it down. Make sure the lever is moving the slider for it's full range. Sometimes these jump out of the track.

 

[jrems]

If both are Rutland thermometers I would get another brand. I tried a Rutland and it was not even close to correct when hot.

 

[Threelittlefish]

What about a barometric damper?

 

[begreen]

What about a barometric damper?

Good suggestion, but that's not a great solution for a wood stove. It cools the flue gases which contributes to creosote condensation. It could also decrease pressure in a tight house, to the concern would be for smoke spillage in a negative pressure area.

 

[stovelark]

Is this a double door castine? If so, check the gaskets for leakage. The ash door fully locked?? And the flue outlet on the back, has it slid down maybe making an open air passage? When you change the air control, does the flame slow down? All things to check, that dull red is a sign of stove getting too hot.... it looks like it is getting air from below somewhere. Good luck with her.

 

[NJburner87]

I have checked every single gasket on this stove, put smoke tablets in the stove, and she is absolutely air tight. It's a single door castine. The company who installed it wants nothing to do with helping me , the only thing they did was check the draft and said it was too much and to install a barometric damper. I've had several different thermometers , and they all read exactly the same. Various brands. This stove just burns too hot and I'm super frustrated, it's one year old.

I called another jotul rep yesterday, and they told me to take out the secondary air baffle, apparently it's job it to increase draft, and see what hppens. Other than that, they are stumped. They also said installing a barometric damper is a poor idea, and in many cases may be illegal (have to double check that one).

So I'm kind of feeling helpless, I have a brand new stove that wasn't cheap, and it runs hot and no one can find a fix. I'm scared to leave the house with it running.

I'll see what difference removing the secondary baffle makes.

 

[jotulguy]

I have checked every single gasket on this stove, put smoke tablets in the stove, and she is absolutely air tight. It's a single door castine. The company who installed it wants nothing to do with helping me , the only thing they did was check the draft and said it was too much and to install a barometric damper. I've had several different thermometers , and they all read exactly the same. Various brands. This stove just burns too hot and I'm super frustrated, it's one year old.

I called another jotul rep yesterday, and they told me to take out the secondary air baffle, apparently it's job it to increase draft, and see what hppens. Other than that, they are stumped. They also said installing a barometric damper is a poor idea, and in many cases may be illegal (have to double check that one).

So I'm kind of feeling helpless, I have a brand new stove that wasn't cheap, and it runs hot and no one can find a fix. I'm scared to leave the house with it running.

I'll see what difference removing the secondary baffle makes.

Please do not do that. Can I ask who your dealer is? I'm curious if the air control has not slipped off the track.

 

[NJburner87]

Dealer was "wood heat" out of easton pa. Absolutely the worst place, I would not recommend my worst enemy go there after dealing with them.

I did check the air control, it is all on track and functioning. Even when the stove is running hot, if I move the air control, I can see the fire change. I don't think that's the issue. In stumped and very unhappy.

 

[Sailrmike]

Do not run any stove without it's baffle in place. My heart goes out to you, I've been there before.

 

[NJburner87]

When I refer to the secondary baffle, I mean the 4"x6" plate that stands vertically on top of the main baffle system. Not sure if that makes a difference.

Thanks for the replies. I'm determined to figure out what's going on if it kills me.

 

[webby3650]

Have you looked the ashpan over very closely? Typically it’s the ashpan seal that causes an overfire like you are having. Look behind the pan and make sure there’s no compacted ash that’s preventing the door from closing fully.

 

[begreen]

When I refer to the secondary baffle, I mean the 4"x6" plate that stands vertically on top of the main baffle system. Not sure if that makes a difference.

Thanks for the replies. I'm determined to figure out what's going on if it kills me.

Yes, that helps. That might be worth looking into. The plate you are referring to is a baffle deflector. It could be out of position or warped which would allow too much heat in the center of the stove. This should be checked. I'd also order a good thermometer and use it for further investigation. Condar sells a decent stove top thermometer.

Besides the two gaskets I mentioned earlier, there are two more gaskets to check. The glass gasket and the top plate gasket. If either are compromised too much air could be getting in above the baffle. If the top is pulled the telltale sign will be sooty carbon traces. The top is removed by taking out the two shipping bolts from the underside of the lid.

 

[stovelark]

Whoa- I wouldn't go taking out anything. I'm agreeing with jotulguh- did you check to see if the air control is out of the slider plate yet? That was what I was asking before if the flames slowed down when you decreased the air. If they didn't, then the stove is drawing air from an open spot or as you say, draft is the problem. Good thoughts are being presented here. The culprit is normally air pulled in from the ash door/ash door housing Did you check the flue outlet's position? One more thing- did the glass slip/loosen up with its gasket? All things to check. Don't despair, its all a process. BTW- did it run normally last season and just start this?

 

[LoieJ]

We have burned wood for 40 years and we've had the F 400 since 2010. We also have electric heat, controlled by a thermostat in each room, but mostly we only use that in the early fall or late spring.
We have a stove top thermometer which has gone up to 900(?) and that has scared us, but the top has never been red. There is something seriously wrong with your stove. If your stove seems to burn like a blow torch, there is air coming in somewhere it shouldn't, so maybe around the ash door. You are not supposed to have that open at all when the stove is burning, but we will open it a crack when we want some small coals to hopefully light up some new wood. And then, maybe we have it open only a minute while we stay right there.

The heat is controlled by: amount and quality of wood, the air intake, the "engine" of the chimney. Our chimney is the height of the first floor, second floor, attic, and the few feet above the roof, so it is probably at least 8+8+6+3 25 feet tall. That is a very strong engine for this stove, and it is part of the reason why the stove got too hot. It is scary to go to bed, upstairs, if the stove is reading way above 700, which is the highest number. We learned our lesson: we never put a full load of wood in the stove when we will be leaving the house or going to bed. We don't need the house to be warm when we are away and I like to sleep in a cool room. It may drop to 66 upstairs when it is zero outside. It isn't worth it to leave a very hot, full stove. My husband fashioned a piece of metal with holes in it and a little handle that we can slide in the lower back in a slot to provide some dampening if the stove is that hot, but better yet, don't put in that much wood!

Quality of wood: We have usually ordered a truck load, 12 cords, 8' logs, of hard wood such as birch, maple, black ash, which he cuts and splits. This heats our 1700 square foot house for about 3+ years. However, the last four years the beavers have been plenty busy here and provided many downed big aspens and some others that provides free wood. He has cut and split about 12 "rows" of aspen. This free wood is much lighter than the purchased wood, but this lower BTU wood also doesn't come close to over heating the stove.

I like this little wood stove, love having the glass, which we didn't have for 33 years. The biggest drawback is the ash tray which has to be emptied every day or it may overflow into that lower area. We get almost no chunks of coals in the stove when it goes out, though I actually like to have a few for easy relighting. He used to clean the chimney every month, but now he just checks it in the spring and fall and it isn't very dirty at all.

If your dealer said that your stove is "air tight" he doesn't know what he is talking about. The modern stoves, by code, are not allowed to be air tight. There is a secondary air intake that you cannot control. That is the problem that we attempted to solve by putting the piece of metal into the slot in the lower back.

I would think that contacting a better source of information, such as Jotul directly, might be the next step. They want satisfied customers.

 

[firefighterjake]

Excellent first post LoieJ . . . hoping you and your husband stick around here for a bit. I think you guys would fit in well here.

 

[pfmg]

Something does not seem right. I have a castine, 16’ Double wall straight flue, have had it for 10 years and never an issue. It likes to run around 500-600, and at 600 the top is not the slightest bit red. its even been up to 800 and its still not red.