Jotul F 400 Inspection Cover - EUR vs USA?

[cycloxer]

I noticed no difference in glass blackening w/ the EUR plate. In fact, if anything, I find the opposite to be true (which makes sense because the EUR plate lets in more air which creates more air-wash effect).

The Jotul GB manual suggest that the F 400 w/ the EUR plate at 40% air vent open is nominally rated to produce 7.5kW or 25,600 Btu. That is most likely its most efficient burn setting.

 

[Skier76]

Thank cyloxer. Next time we head up to VT, I'll install the Euro plate. The stove will be cold, so it should be an easy swap.

Good to know on the 40% setting. I find that with the USA plate, mine seems to be happiest a tick or two lower than 50%.

 

[cycloxer]

It takes about 2 minutes. All you need is a 10mm socket or wrench.

I think I figured out why Jotul developed the USA cover. There is an EPA regulation in ths US (yeah more EPA rules) that limits the ratio of air-fuel for a wood burning appliance. I believe it is 35:1. The EUR cover must allow too much air to flow when it is wide open. Of course the US & Canada are the only countries that require this cover. Every other country is supposed to use the EUR cover, including Norway.

 

[Skier76]

I had originally pulled out the USA one to see what the heck the differnce was. Since it was my first year with the stove this year, I left the US spec plate in.

That's really interesting on the standards. One would think th Euro standards would be a bit tighter. It makes me wonder wich one the stove was "realy" designed for.

 

[cycloxer]

It makes me wonder wich one the stove was "really" designed for.

I've thought about this as well. Given that it is a Norwegian company, I would say the EUR cover. Of the 15 countries listed, only US & Canada are to use the USA cover. Letting in more air gives you more energy at the expense of more pollution - even in a clean burning stove. There is another EPA regulation for a maximum of 5 grams per hour. Have you been following the Copenhagen debacle? At the rate they are going, wood stoves will be banned outright by next year.

 

[Skier76]

Ugh! Don't get me started on the EPA. It's a shame how anything with a carb sold here in the states is leaned out one notch above "it'll burn itself up" from the lack of fuel.

Have you noticed any difference when shutting down the air control? I haven't had many fires where I've had to crank the control down to nothing, but am curious if it behaves differently with the Euro on there.

I'm going to bolt this up next time we're there. I'm looking forward to testing it out. At start up and when adding a split, it seems like just a bit more air would really help things along.

 

[Skier76]

Update:

I installed the Euro plate late Saturday. We didn't get to VT until a bit after midnight...and since it's only two bolts..why not?

I like the Euro plate better. I notice there's more air on start up. Also, when reloading, it allows more air in the firebox when you move that lever to the right all the way. I didn't really notice too much of a difference in the glass...maybe a little more hazing? It's hard to say since I usually clean the glass weekly, but didn't this week. But so far, so good. My wife even noticed the difference. She got up before I did Sunday AM and started the fire from coals. She said it took off much quicker than usual.

 

[cycloxer]

She said it took off much quicker than usual.

Yeah I have been burning this way for a couple of weeks now. I will say that you have to pay attention to the stove with this plate in place because it does let a lot of air into the stove when wide open. If you have dry wood that means you can really get the stove cranking quick. So just keep an eye on it and know that you are going to have to back off the air quicker/more once you get to your operating temp.

 

[polaris]

I can't find my EUR plate. I'd like to try it. Does anyone have one they would be willing to part with?
Thanks
Joe

 

[Skier76]

She said it took off much quicker than usual.

Yeah I have been burning this way for a couple of weeks now. I will say that you have to pay attention to the stove with this plate in place because it does let a lot of air into the stove when wide open. If you have dry wood that means you can really get the stove cranking quick. So just keep an eye on it and know that you are going to have to back off the air quicker/more once you get to your operating temp.

I agree. Once our fire is going, it don't have to mess with the control as much. I can back it down in larger steps instead of multiple small ones

It really helps in the startup phase...and when getting things going from coals. We often have to start the fire from coals due to being away for a bit or after the fire dies a few hours into the night. Having the extra air will make life easier.

 

[cycloxer]

Okay cool. Keep us posted on how you like it as you have more experience with the USA plate from last year as a comparison. I pretty much ditched the USA plate right away and turned it into a lawn ornament and have been running Euro style since. I do like to keep my burn temps hot though as I like seeing that complete combustion of the wood.

How is the skiing up north? Hope to get up there soon. First day maybe this Friday.

 

[Skier76]

Will do! This is actually our first year with the Jotul, but I've been running the USA plate since we bought the stove this summer...and burning all fall up to now.

I haven't been out since the 7th...but the skiing at Mt. Snow was really good! They opened up a lot more terrain this past weekend. We'll hopefully make it over there this coming Sunday.

 

[dvellone]

I noticed no difference in glass blackening w/ the EUR plate. In fact, if anything, I find the opposite to be true (which makes sense because the EUR plate lets in more air which creates more air-wash effect).

The Jotul GB manual suggest that the F 400 w/ the EUR plate at 40% air vent open is nominally rated to produce 7.5kW or 25,600 Btu. That is most likely its most efficient burn setting.

I had the same results. The glass stayed much cleaner. The start up is quicker and my fires always burned down to fine ash - no clinkers. It was harder to choke down a fire, which I can do easier with the USA plate. And maybe that's the point: the Euro plate doesn't allow as much for a smoldering fire. If I don't pay close attention to my burn cycle, taking the stove up to 400* before shutting the air down, I can easily produce a smoldering fire with the USA plate which then is hugely inefficient. But then the USA plate allows me to get a longer burn with good secondary combustion when operating the stove correctly and taking it to the right temp before shutting down the air. The EURO plate made burn times shorter and it doesn't seem to allow for as great a range of control - in particular at the lower end- as the USA plate. It definitely allows better start up draft and will probably allow a more efficient burn if you didn't want to wait around and pay so much attention to exactly when to shut down primary air. Seems to provide a little more of a "hands off" approach.

 

[Skier76]

We spent more time this weekend in VT so I had more time to experiment with the new plate. I really like this thing when starting fires in a cold stove. It moves more air into the box and gets the fire going quicker...IMHO. Also, when starting a fire from coals, the extra air really helps. We came back from skiing yesterday around 2:30-3... (sub zero windchills at the mountiain...still got a ton of runs in though) we had left around 7:45 in the morning. I threw on some small pine kindling on some small coals I raked to the front of the stove...I opened the air up all the way and they lit off shortly thereafter.

I find that we often have to get the stove going in short order after being out or away for a period of time. I really noticed that I'm able to get more wood in the firebox going much faster with this plate. I'm able to toss on a few splits, leave it wide open and let the stove run up to temp. From there, I can start backing things down. With this place, I don't have to back down sloooooooowly like I did with the USA plate. I can back it off about a quarter of a time. Sometimes, I can drop the lever to 50% shut from full open with little/no cooling and no smoke out of the chimney. I've also been able to load the stove at 50% wich is pretty neat.

 

[webby3650]

I know I am kinda late but I just picked up this thread. Does anybody know where to buy one of these? I got the impression that the stove might have come with it, mine only had the USA plate, I would appreciate any feedback. Thanks

 

[cycloxer]

Your dealer will have one. The stoves ship from Jotul with both covers.

 

[webby3650]

Thanks, I'll check.

 

[asnider]

Installed the EUR inspection cover, as per the setup instructions. Door smoked up badly with every fire I tried. Replaced the EUR cover with the USA plate. Am now better able to control the fire (it kept running away) and the door smokes MUCH less. I know it doesn't make much sense, but the test confirms it.

 

[Skier76]

That is really strange. I get some blackening around the bottom corners of the glass if the stove hangs out around/under 400 for a bit. But once I toss on some hardwood splits and get the temp up, the glass cleans up nicely.

I had put the USA plate back in last season once winter settled in a bit more. I was getting some blackening; but I beleive that was due to poorly seasoned wood. I'm now running the Euro plate again and find things are easier to operate. I don't have an ideal chimney set up, so the plate really helps for my particular application; mostly with the cold starts.

 

[cycloxer]

In all of my experimenting, the blackening comes from high moisture content wood. The sap outgasses and deposits itself on the glass. It burns creating the black.

 

[Skier76]

I get more blackening with pine. (uh oh...it's clogging my chimney!). You may be on to something with the sap. Or maybe it's the temp. I find pine doesn't burn very hot compaired with hardwoods.

 

[cycloxer]

White pine has a lot of sap. I burn some on occasion as there are many pines around my house. I have the same problem with the sugar maple. Even when it is dry it tends to outgas more than other woods. As long as you run the stove hot it will clear up most of the glass. With a load of less than perfectly seasoned wood, I run the stove up to 650-700°F to burn everything off. Then I let the temp drop back into the 400-600°F cruising zone. The Castine likes running hot.

 

[Skier76]

Mine seems to settle in nicely around 525 with a full load and the air backed all the way down. I get a nice "rumble" noise from the secondaries.

 

[cycloxer]

Yeah the Castine will run for a long time with a full charge burning at 500. I did that with one charge last night and was still at 68 in the morning. Perfect.

 

[Mad Tom]

Can anyone tell me what the difference in operation is between the EUR and USA inspection covers? It looks like the EUR one lets in more air by default through the extra slot. Which one should I use?

Did your stove come with both? I have a 500 that is 4 years old and came with just one which I assume is US. Anyone know where you can get a EUR cover?