tbags look at the information label on that stove. You said Jotul 118 B. Are you sure it isn't F 118 CB? If it is the CB stove the manual is available online and they have a bottom heat shield standard on them.
Jotul 118B Can I Use Durarock, then slate tile??
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Nah, BB, I think he has a old one - otherwise it would have come with a manual, have a glass door, and the model # would be different.
BTW, good 118 pic here:
https://www.hearth.com/visit/woodsmans/source/1550jotul.html
BTW, good 118 pic here:
https://www.hearth.com/visit/woodsmans/source/1550jotul.html
my personal opinion, that fire place is begging for an insert. I found a decent Lopi Freedom bay on Ebay paid $575
which I will install in my friend's home this week
which I will install in my friend's home this week
Well Fella's thanks for all your help.
1st, it's is definitely the 118B.
2nd, I DO have the manual for it.
Who knows, maybe Even if it was 2 feet off the floor, seeing the legs cut, may raise the eyebrows of the inspector.
I understand, that a fair amount of Heat will radiate down away from the stove. and I am NO Physicist. But as far as sun heating the earth, isn't it the energy of the sunlight, that is converted to heat after striking objects on the earth??
LOL Not sure about that one, but anyway. I am going to try to find an insert if possible. I have not ruled this one out yet, and I have emailed some dealers looking for shorter legs.
I searched the web, and found that Jotul did make short leg kits for some models, but I haven't seen anything on a KIT for the 118B or the 118CB.
Also, the Hearth OUTSIDE the fireplace is only 3/4 inch thick, I pulled up a tile, so I know that.
However, INSIDE the fireplace. I am sure it is all masonry, the chimney is actually built outside the confines of the House Foundation. (goes up the side of the house) And in the cellar is Brick all the way to the basement floor. So Under the fireplace itself is all masonry.
Again I haven't figured this out completely yet, so I still need any help and ideas you can offer, but would like to thank you all for your help and input up to this point.
TBAGS
1st, it's is definitely the 118B.
2nd, I DO have the manual for it.
Who knows, maybe Even if it was 2 feet off the floor, seeing the legs cut, may raise the eyebrows of the inspector.
I understand, that a fair amount of Heat will radiate down away from the stove. and I am NO Physicist. But as far as sun heating the earth, isn't it the energy of the sunlight, that is converted to heat after striking objects on the earth??
LOL Not sure about that one, but anyway. I am going to try to find an insert if possible. I have not ruled this one out yet, and I have emailed some dealers looking for shorter legs.
I searched the web, and found that Jotul did make short leg kits for some models, but I haven't seen anything on a KIT for the 118B or the 118CB.
Also, the Hearth OUTSIDE the fireplace is only 3/4 inch thick, I pulled up a tile, so I know that.
However, INSIDE the fireplace. I am sure it is all masonry, the chimney is actually built outside the confines of the House Foundation. (goes up the side of the house) And in the cellar is Brick all the way to the basement floor. So Under the fireplace itself is all masonry.
Again I haven't figured this out completely yet, so I still need any help and ideas you can offer, but would like to thank you all for your help and input up to this point.
TBAGS
PS What is MICORE.
Is it rigid?..that is, if placed on floorjoists would it support the stove if I cut out the sub floor?
Is it rigid?..that is, if placed on floorjoists would it support the stove if I cut out the sub floor?
Micore is alot like cement board (duroroc) only with a higher R value. By itself probably mot strong enuf but covered with a layer of Duroc it should be fine for the weight of that stove. It can be hard to find
tbags - the hearth is dangerous as-is for even the masonry fireplace.......think about burning a fire on the hearth - the floor can easily hit 1000 degrees plus - so what is the hearth going to hit? - keep in mind that anything above 200 degrees is considered dangerous.
As far as radiant heat, a small space heater like a quartz heater is a good way to think about it. It transmits heat as waves right through the air. The bottom of the stove is parallel to the floor, which makes the radiant energy transmit in the best way possible - flat to flat.
I think the NFPA info should help you and your inspector make a determination - also, do a wiki search for micore - or even a forum search. It is available at many drywall supply houses as well as some stove stores.
see this thread - charred hearth like yours:
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/9475/#110127
As far as radiant heat, a small space heater like a quartz heater is a good way to think about it. It transmits heat as waves right through the air. The bottom of the stove is parallel to the floor, which makes the radiant energy transmit in the best way possible - flat to flat.
I think the NFPA info should help you and your inspector make a determination - also, do a wiki search for micore - or even a forum search. It is available at many drywall supply houses as well as some stove stores.
see this thread - charred hearth like yours:
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/forums/viewthread/9475/#110127
tbags the sub floor can be removed but in its place install solid blocking flush between the joist ,like 2/8 on the flat, toe nail them
The best way you can but I would scab 3 2/4 under than and spike the carp out of them
You now can use that space to build back up 1/2" micore then either 1/2" durarock or 1/4 " hardibacker board then tile or slate which ever gets you there
you need the durarock or hardi backer board to protect the soft micore and prevent the weight of the stove from cracking tiles
The best way you can but I would scab 3 2/4 under than and spike the carp out of them
You now can use that space to build back up 1/2" micore then either 1/2" durarock or 1/4 " hardibacker board then tile or slate which ever gets you there
you need the durarock or hardi backer board to protect the soft micore and prevent the weight of the stove from cracking tiles
Tbags: Would a really inexpensive "brand new" stove like this not fit ?
http://cgi.ebay.com/Ashley-Freestan...ryZ41987QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
I bought one similar to this at Menards last year for $250 (new) and installed it at my uncles house in Virginia. He didn't even use 20% of his normal heating oil consumption (burner would kick in early morning when the stove had burnt out) and I reckon our ROI was less than 2 months worth of heating fuel...
http://cgi.ebay.com/Ashley-Freestan...ryZ41987QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
I bought one similar to this at Menards last year for $250 (new) and installed it at my uncles house in Virginia. He didn't even use 20% of his normal heating oil consumption (burner would kick in early morning when the stove had burnt out) and I reckon our ROI was less than 2 months worth of heating fuel...
Keith good suggestion but he needs rear vent option pipe haws to fit below his existing fireplace opening
Elk: The stove he is looking at is 6" taller than the plate steel stove. I agree that an insert would be better, but may be harder to find and not as effective in heating. There are lots of stove models with a rear exit, they are simply a bit more expensive. Jotul F100 for example has a rear exit and is only 22" high. Priced around $1000 new. Jotul 602 CB is 25" tall with a rear exit also. Had a new one at one of the stove shops that hadn't sold in a while, it was marked down to $750.
As supplementry heat during the time the family is active, all of these are great stoves. The primary thermostat for the central heat can be lowered to 60f and it will kick in when the stove burns down.
As supplementry heat during the time the family is active, all of these are great stoves. The primary thermostat for the central heat can be lowered to 60f and it will kick in when the stove burns down.
He can also stay outside the wall on a new hearth and got straight up to a 90, through a wall thimble into the flue. he already has this stove
Hey everyone, I really appreciate everyone kicking in their ideas and trying to help.
THAT is AWESOME..
Now...as far as the hearth being dangerous for a fireplace....(reaching 1000 deg.)
Maybe I wasn't clear.
Under the fireplace, is masonry all the way down.
In FRONT of the fireplace, the hearth is probably a total of 3/4 of an inch as it stands now.
so, I've had fires in the fireplace, the hearth out front never got that hot (you could surely touch it with a hand or walk on it.)
So, I think it is safe for a fireplace the way it is.
UPDATE:
I just spent the last hour with a friend/customer of mine (I work at a masonry supply store) He stopped by while I was in the process of typing what is above.
We talked about cutting the legs, he thought it would be safe, but might not be cool with the inspector..
He looked it over and pulled out his jackhammer and chiseled out the top soldier's course of brick, cut the angle iron that was under it (he showed me that there is another angle iron above the damper that actually supports the chimney, the bottom one only supported the facade out in front of the fireplace during construction) and removed the damper door. He said the chimney looks in good shape, I just need now to get some pipe, and have a piece of sheet metal cut with a hole in it to replace the damper door. Then I have to extend the hearth to meet the manual requirements. Now I have room to put the stove partially in the fireplace and still should have enough clearance above it with the brick that is there.
Things are looking up. He has all the proper licenses, so he is a "LEGAL" installer. (apparently being a MASON is not sufficient, you need to have a licensed Constr. Supervisor do it, Or you can legally do it yourself, but if you hire someone they have to have the license).
Anyway, Thanks again, I'm sure you guys (and or gals) will be able to help me in the future, cuz I am a newbie at wood burning.
Well at least something went right on this CHILLY monday.
THAT is AWESOME..
Now...as far as the hearth being dangerous for a fireplace....(reaching 1000 deg.)
Maybe I wasn't clear.
Under the fireplace, is masonry all the way down.
In FRONT of the fireplace, the hearth is probably a total of 3/4 of an inch as it stands now.
so, I've had fires in the fireplace, the hearth out front never got that hot (you could surely touch it with a hand or walk on it.)
So, I think it is safe for a fireplace the way it is.
UPDATE:
I just spent the last hour with a friend/customer of mine (I work at a masonry supply store) He stopped by while I was in the process of typing what is above.
We talked about cutting the legs, he thought it would be safe, but might not be cool with the inspector..
He looked it over and pulled out his jackhammer and chiseled out the top soldier's course of brick, cut the angle iron that was under it (he showed me that there is another angle iron above the damper that actually supports the chimney, the bottom one only supported the facade out in front of the fireplace during construction) and removed the damper door. He said the chimney looks in good shape, I just need now to get some pipe, and have a piece of sheet metal cut with a hole in it to replace the damper door. Then I have to extend the hearth to meet the manual requirements. Now I have room to put the stove partially in the fireplace and still should have enough clearance above it with the brick that is there.
Things are looking up. He has all the proper licenses, so he is a "LEGAL" installer. (apparently being a MASON is not sufficient, you need to have a licensed Constr. Supervisor do it, Or you can legally do it yourself, but if you hire someone they have to have the license).
Anyway, Thanks again, I'm sure you guys (and or gals) will be able to help me in the future, cuz I am a newbie at wood burning.
Well at least something went right on this CHILLY monday.
tbags said:
We did (at least I did) know what you meant....the code is simple:
2114.3.7 Fireplaces constructed of masonry or reinforced concrete shall have hearth extensions of brick, concrete, stone, tile, or other approved noncombustible material properly supported and with no combustible material against the underside thereof. Wooden form or centers used during the construction of a hearth and hearth extensions shall be removed when construction is completed.
Please see enclosed drawing - this may be a moot point with your stove installer, but your expert friend should surely see this - if you have wood below the tile within 16 inches of your fireplace front, it is an accident waiting to happen (with open fires)....
Your perception of how hot it got with your fires is not the problem - it only takes once for the power to go out and some yahoo (not you) decides to put a cord of wood through the stove - and that wood will ignite in no time. Heat conducts directly through masonry as the hours go by - that is why is has so little R-Value.
Anyway, see enclosed - that is poured concrete shown under the hearth. That pic, plus the words in the code above, should be clear....
Not to hassle you - but just so this thread reflects the real story for future searches...
Attachments
You can be sure, that I don't feel ANYONE on this forum has been hassling me about this. I'm here to learn, and you guys have taught me a lot.
After I read your post, I got to thinking. The extension comes out about 18".
I had previously pulled one of the outer tiles, chipped away the mortar, and found wood. But I hadn't chipped back to the 16" point. So...I went down the cellar, and I guess I may have noticed this a few years back, when I was installing cable TV wires, but it didn't really register because I really wasn't looking for it, and I really didn't use the fireplace too much. There is brick below the hearth, supported by rebar coming out of the chimney. It appeared to come out ABOUT 16" from where the fireplace started. (roughly). I couldn't tell from down there exactly where the fireplace ended and the extension started.
So back upstairs, and pulled that tile again, and chipped away another inch of mortar, and LO and BEHOLD. BRICK. So I don't know how old that code is, (this house is about 50 years old.) but apparently that was the code back then, because the brick comes just past the 16" point.
I appreciate you educating me my friend.
And our SOX lost game 3 tonight. (but I bet you knew that already. too) LOL
Thanks a lot for your help, and your concern in not wanting to see a newbie burn his house down.
You guys RULE
TBAGS
After I read your post, I got to thinking. The extension comes out about 18".
I had previously pulled one of the outer tiles, chipped away the mortar, and found wood. But I hadn't chipped back to the 16" point. So...I went down the cellar, and I guess I may have noticed this a few years back, when I was installing cable TV wires, but it didn't really register because I really wasn't looking for it, and I really didn't use the fireplace too much. There is brick below the hearth, supported by rebar coming out of the chimney. It appeared to come out ABOUT 16" from where the fireplace started. (roughly). I couldn't tell from down there exactly where the fireplace ended and the extension started.
So back upstairs, and pulled that tile again, and chipped away another inch of mortar, and LO and BEHOLD. BRICK. So I don't know how old that code is, (this house is about 50 years old.) but apparently that was the code back then, because the brick comes just past the 16" point.
I appreciate you educating me my friend.
And our SOX lost game 3 tonight. (but I bet you knew that already. too) LOL
Thanks a lot for your help, and your concern in not wanting to see a newbie burn his house down.
You guys RULE
TBAGS
CRAIG,
And you play the guitar too?
COOL.
LOL, didn't notice that before.
B.T.W. What part of W. Mass are you in??
I am out near Worcester area
And you play the guitar too?
COOL.
LOL, didn't notice that before.
B.T.W. What part of W. Mass are you in??
I am out near Worcester area
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