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[elkimmeg]

If you heat up that masive interior masonry surounding your stove soap stone migh actually retard that process you could end up producing less heat when the stove gets low

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

True enough, that fireplace is going to take some energy to heat up. But since its a interior masonry fireplace there should be very little loss. At least it would seem so. It takes a long time for that stove to get low, by that time that masonry should still be warm to? Or am i way off on this.

 

[Todd]

I think any type of stove you put in there, wheather soapstone, cast, or steel is going to loose heat to the surrounding masonary.
But like MSG said it's an inside chimney so that will help. What about installing some kind of heat reflection shield on the masonary, above the stove?

 

[elkimmeg]

you want the masonry to store the heat so that it is released later

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

so what would be problem with that if the fireplace in in the interior, and not loosing heat like a exterior fireplace would? I just dont understand the comment you made before. Please explain further.

 

[Todd]

I've often pondered the idea of a masonary hearth or fireplace soaking up the heat of a stove. Don't know for sure if it's good or bad. I've heard both. I'm leaning more towards reflecting the heat away from the mass and let the stove do the work.

Is the stove going to sit right underneath inside the fireplace? If so, wouldn't lots of wasted heat go up the chimney unless there is some kind of block off plate or shield above the stove. I'm sure some heat is going to be absorbed anyway even if you have a shield, and since it's an inside chimney it will help the draft and maybe give off a little heat, but how much is lost compared to gained.

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

Todd i agree, its never my pratice to recomend a stove cpmpletly inside a fireplace, it would take a long time and energy to get that mass up to temp, and if the fireplace is on a exterior wall, alot of the heat will go right out the masonry to the outside. I dont think any stove will perform to its potential completly inside a fireplace unless its ran 24/7. There should be a block off plate if its correctly installed, so you dont have to worry about the heat going up the chimney, you have to worry about heating tons of masonry all around the fireplace, it which case its possible a cast or steel stove would do a faster job then soapstone. If the fireplace was complety inside the fireplace, or lets say, 75% inside the fireplace, i probably would not recommend soapstone.

 

[elkimmeg]

Here what has worked for me for the past 30 years. My fireplace stove location is wall to ceiling granite stone 16" of stone and masonry. The stove in this case it is a VC resolute Accclaim soon to be a VC Cat Encore.
I run the stove 24/ 7 most of the time the granite stone and masory soakes up the heat radiating from the back of the stove. Center first floor interior chimney 4 flues. That solid mass is a perfect storage medium for heat 24/7. Might get up to 90 degrees,
the entire area is 12/8', plus it also heats beyond the first floor and acts to radiate heat on all sides on the second floor. Remember heat rises. So the stove burns low overnight next morning you feel the stones they are still warm radiating heat. When I built my home I designed it this way. I wanted that much storage. My stone hearth is also granite field stone 4' wide / 12' long more storage.
One other Active forum member has seen my setup in person Hot Flame. This was only one energy saving producing feature I incorperated,when I built this home. I do not want a rear heat shield or bottom. I want heat to radiate and be absorbed by the stone.
Pretty soon if not the stove generating heat, its the whole mass the stove just helps maintain a constant temp. The front and sides still radiate out into the living space. I almost chuckle when a few pieces of soap stone extends heat. Try 16" of granite then masonry behind that 8'/12' area plus the hearth. Soap stone would produce a negative heat effect in my situation.

 

[precaud]

Marty, is that G.I. Gurdjieff in your avatar?

Yep.

Good to find another fan?

Yes, a fan from long ago...

 

[Todd]

Marty,
Looks like your stove will sit about half and half under your fireplace? Maybe you would be better off with a metal stove than soapstone since you will have that big masonary heat battery over it. And the soapstone probably wouldn't match your fireplace stone either?

Elk,
Have you ever tried a heat shield on your stove and noticed any differences. I have a large brick hearth 8' tall x 6'w x 6' d. There is a 1" air space between the hearth and the basement concrete wall. When I called Woodstock and asked them about this they said to install the bottom and rear heat shield to reflect the heat away from the hearth and make the stove more efficient. Now I'm not so sure, I will try both with or without this season and see what happens.

 

[Marty]

If you heat up that masive interior masonry surounding your stove soap stone migh actually retard that process you could end up producing less heat when the stove gets low

...but how much is lost compared to gained.

So if I understand you correctly the main disadvantage (assumeing the fairly good heat retention character of interior masonry) is that it will always be hogging up a large amount of the heat, causing a delay before the heat is available to the rest of the house.

Would this be largley overcome if the top of the masonry is adequately insulated and fires are burned relatively constant.

In other words wouldn't the btu's eventually come into use over an even larger curve.

The main disadvantage I see with that setup would be at times when the weather is changing you might have more stored btu's than you want when they are being released... ie. less control.

???

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

You are right on the money marty.

 

[Marty]

I do have another question about the Hearthstone Mansfield.

Can the ash pan frame and legs be removed and reinstalled without compromising the stove?

After looking over the specs more closely I see that it would perhaps fit if I could tuck the top flue collar up into the fireplace.

I don't think that would be possible with a 550 lb stove without removing the bottom components and rolling it in from the back with a hydrolic jack, then jacking it up and reinstalling.

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

It cant realy be done marty, well in any praticle way it cant be done.

 

[elkimmeg]

If you heat up that masive interior masonry surounding your stove soap stone migh actually retard that process you could end up producing less heat when the stove gets low

...but how much is lost compared to gained.

So if I understand you correctly the main disadvantage (assumeing the fairly good heat retention character of interior masonry) is that it will always be hogging up a large amount of the heat, causing a delay before the heat is available to the rest of the house.

Would this be largley overcome if the top of the masonry is adequately insulated and fires are burned relatively constant.

In other words wouldn't the btu's eventually come into use over an even larger curve.

The main disadvantage I see with that setup would be at times when the weather is changing you might have more stored btu's than you want when they are being released... ie. less control.

???

If done right no heat is lost it is strored and released over a long period of time. Again all air that contacts the stove is still heated all parts that are in front will still radiate outward. The point being missed here radiant heat is stored Not reflected again and a gain till it dissipates like your white ceiling is not a good storage medium Nothing compared to unever rough faced granite stones
Radiant heat heats objects Heating your rug does little to produce heat heating cloth sofa again does not heat up much or store heat. wood same poor conductor of heat or storage. soap stone due to its mass it stores heat over a period of time and releases it

Making a home energy effecient is trying to capture heat ant prevent loosing it My 4 sliders facing south capture heat the dark tile floor in front of the sliders again acts as c collector of storage mass They heat up. Ehen the sun goes down stored heat is still being released. I'm trying to explain it but probably not getting the point acrost Solar pannels collect heat and transfere the heat to water My wood stove produces heat that is collected by the stones Mass

 

[Marty]

UPDATE

I do have another question about the Hearthstone Mansfield.

Can the ash pan frame and legs be removed and reinstalled without compromising the stove?

After looking over the specs more closely I see that it would perhaps fit if I could tuck the top flue collar up into the fireplace.

I don't think that would be possible with a 550 lb stove without removing the bottom components and rolling it in from the back with a hydrolic jack, then jacking it up and reinstalling.

I got this email back from Hearthstone:

Thank you for your interest in HearthStone Quality Home Heating Products. We will be happy to provide the information that you requested.



The top flue collar can be removed by turning out two ¼” nuts on the retaining threaded rods. The stove can then be positioned in the fireplace and the flue collar reattached. There would not be much room to work, but I’ve heard of this type of installation being done in the past.



We look forward to serving your needs.

(broken link removed to http://www.hearthstonestoves.com/contact.shtml)

 

[Baroness]

Hi to all! This is my first post, but I've been reading for the past 3/4 of a year. I don't have time to read all the posts for this thread, but I just wanted to chime in b/c I have the Isle Royale (w/hearth legs). It was installed this past Jan.. I LOVE this stove. Although I have no other to compare it to (besides gas logs), I have to say I am extremely pleased with it. I have an OLD 3200 sq. ft. farmhouse and once this baby was installed, we only had to turn the heat on ONCE. (And that was b/c we didn't know how to get a nice fire started~thanks to this forum we do now!) It's in the kitchen which is pretty much in the middle of the house. The farthest room away is the bathroom and that even stayed in the 60's. The rooms are not really open to each other so I am surprised that we can heat the whole house with it. The upatairs was OK, but we don't really use that part of the house so it doesn't matter. But I'm sure it would be fine if we did since heat rises. Sorry I don't have time to write more. I'm going to attempt to post a pic of it as well. If it doesn't work, I'll have to try another time.

~Baroness

 

[Marty]

Trying to cover all of my bases here.

Quadrafire Isle Royale install manual - page 8 - there is a note that says "[Please note this cover plate will not work with the Low-Profile Kit]" in refrence to the 'rear venting' cover plate.

By 'Low-Profile Kit' do they mean hearth legs?

I cannot see how the one relates to the other.

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

I read the manual, and i cant figure out what there talking about either, the short legs would not have any thing to do with that. it doesnt list a low profile kit in the option list either, if know one comes up with a answer by wensday, i will call them for you. wouldnt hurt to email me and remind me.

 

[Baroness]

I have both the hearth legs & rear vented. I don't think low-profile means the legs.

 

[Marty]

I have both the hearth legs & rear vented. I don't think low-profile means the legs.

Thanks for that, and your previous comments.

It sure wouldn't make any sense if it was in refrence to hearth legs.

Due to the reasons outlined in this thread, I am 80% sure I'm going with the Isle Royale. It has the best size/fit/material for my site.

Now I need to get to work on my hearthpad extension and chimney liner installs.

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

Hmmmm, waiting on a call back from quad. the first tech told me there was no such thing as a low profile kit, so i told him to look on page 8, now im waiting for a call back. Im guessing its a oval connector, or a low offset connector. Which is why the legs wont play any part of it, but that shield is cut for the standard flue collar. Thats my guess, i wll let you know if and when they call me back.

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

Got the call back, it is indeed a low flue collar, it lowers the flue hight by 2"

 

[Marty]

Well that settles that. Thanks MSG you are all over it as usual.

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

Hey no problem Marty, now i know too! i have one more option for a fireplace retro that i didnt have before.