Job creation from a 1%er

[BrotherBart]

Here is one showing 57%
http://management.fortune.cnn.com/2014/03/10/minimum-wage-increase/

Comparing apples and turnips. Jags' number was of all Americans and the one you link is 57% of small business owners.

And you conveniently didn't quote this little tidbit from the article.

""Small businesses see firsthand how low wages at corporate chains like McDonald's (MCD) or Wal-Mart (WMT) drain local communities of the spending power needed to sustain consumer demand," said Christine Owens, executive director of the National Employment Law Project, on a conference call announcing the poll results."

 

[Ktm300]

In all fairness - Just read one from The Wall Street Journal at 63% that want the min wage hike. The lowest I have seen so far.

Minimum wage jobs are where we start. Work hard learn something then advance in your career. Nobody is going to give you anything ,you have to reach out and take it. Ever wonder why there is a limited number of professional athletes? Because they put in the work practice and sweat. Go to work . Flip burgers if you want but make the goal the manager. DO WORK

 

[begreen]

Minimum wage is also where you stay when there is no need for another manager and the next joint is 30 miles away and you have no car. Minimum wage is also where you end up after being laid off because your job has been outsourced and still have to feed a family.

 

[razerface]

Thanks cynnergy. Nice to hear from the mouth of a real person.
I think Americans will have a rough time with waiting,,,we aren't good at that. Right now I can remember waiting 3 weeks for appointments, and thought it was too long.

6months seems excessive ,,especially if it turns out to be serious,,in that time you could die. Lack of doctors? Do docs make big money up there like here?

Illegal to go private! Wow! I've never heard that before. Are they afraid the docs will only see private patients?

Other sister may be back to paying shortly.

If you do not have any income, do you still have insurance in CDN ?

 

[Cynnergy]

I'm surprised that no one has picked up on the basic income link. In the 1970's a small town in Manitoba just gave everyone money, rather than a mish-mash of different social assistance programs. (broken link removed to http://www.dominionpaper.ca/articles/4100).

From Wikipedia Basic Income: "In studies of the Mincome experiment in rural Manitoba, the only two groups who worked less in a significant way were new mothers, and teenagers working to support their families. New mothers spent this time with their infant children, and working teenagers put significant additional time into their schooling.[9] Under Mincome, "the reduction of work effort was modest: about one per cent for men, three per cent for wives, and five per cent for unmarried women."[10]

From Wikipedia Mincome: "A final report was never issued, but Dr. Evelyn Forget (/fɔrˈʒeɪ/) conducted an analysis of the program in 2009 which was published in 2011.[4][5] She found that only new mothers and teenagers worked substantially less. Mothers with newborns stopped working because they wanted to stay at home longer with their babies, and teenagers worked less because they weren't under as much pressure to support their families, which resulted in more teenagers graduating. In addition, those who continued to work were given more opportunities to choose what type of work they did. Forget found that in the period that Mincome was administered, hospital visits dropped 8.5 percent, with fewer incidences of work-related injuries, and fewer emergency room visits from car accidents and domestic abuse.[6] Additionally, the period saw a reduction in rates of psychiatric hospitalization, and in the number of mental illness-related consultations with health professionals.[7][8]"

It makes sense to me. There is a lot of money spent on administering social assistance programs. Why not have a Mincome instead? It is all wrong that social assistance often pays more than minimum wage, therefore gov'ts have to subsidize people working minimum wage jobs so that they're not better off on welfare. Have a Mincome and any work you do is on top of the basic amount that everyone gets.

Oh, and before you ask, the 1% can pay for it. They can afford it after all .

 

[begreen]

wonder what a loaf of bread would cost if everyone made 100K a year?

Keep wondering, right along with people living below poverty level. A minimum wage of $10 is only a fifth of 100K per year.

 

[Cynnergy]

6months seems excessive ,,especially if it turns out to be serious,,in that time you could die. Lack of doctors? Do docs make big money up there like here?
Illegal to go private! Wow! I've never heard that before. Are they afraid the docs will only see private patients?

Doctors make good money here, but they probably make more in the US. Heartburn isn't going to kill you although it is annoying - my sister had loads of tests done to see if there was anything else wrong but her family doctor couldn't find anything so the referral to the specialist is what took so long.

We are set up as a universal access system, so yes, the idea is that no one should be able to buy their way to better health care because health care is a universal right. Practically, the fear is that all of the doctors would want to see the private patients, which would take time away from the public patients, so it would be a detriment to the public system. The UK seems to manage it just fine though. The trick is to keep the politicians from saying 'oh well we've got lots of people paying privately now so we can take money out of the public system'. Which is probably what they would try to do.

I'm not sure about social assistance for things like glasses and dentists. I sure hope that's in place. Poor people will definitely be in the group hospital rooms though and not be going to any chiropracters or masseuses. I even think those without insurance have to pay for things like crutches and wheelchairs - that can add up. I just checked my insurance (through my husband's work) and it covers things like diabetic supplies too - so if you're poor and have diabetes you have to pay for your own blood glucose monitor.

 

[Ktm300]

Minimum wage is also where you stay when there is no need for another manager and the next joint is 30 miles away and you have no car. Minimum wage is also where you end up after being laid off because your job has been outsourced and still have to feed a family.

Cut grass,rake leaves,shovel snow, throw hay,split wood,wash neighbors car,clean the stalls. I started when I was 10. Don't fear the hateful jobs there's lots of them around. Hand outs are not what made this country great. Hard work did. I was lucky my parents instilled hard work in me.

 

[razerface]

And you conveniently didn't quote this little tidbit from the article.

I did not quote anything from the article. You act like I was hiding something? I gave the link to the whole article. There are some things I agree with and some I don't in that article

Edit: I think it was good to get a poll from small business, as they know what will happen to their business if forced to raise wages

 

[Butcher]

My 2 cents. If there are so many people happy with a government that dictates to them how much they have to pay an entry level employee, what kind of health insurance they have to buy, or even as a business owner how much they can make for the time ,effort and risk involved in being a business owner then maybe those folks should move to a country like China or Russia or better yet N. Korea. Think of how simplistic your lives would be. You wouldn't have to worry about making the big decisions about the life you lived. They would all be made for you by some one higher up that you didn't even have to bother to vote for. How convenient would that be? I mean really. A camel with it's head in the sand would be in a total Valhalla in a land like that. Now if you will excuse me I have to go kick the stereo, this record is skipping.

 

[Ktm300]

My 2 cents. If there are so many people happy with a government that dictates to them how much they have to pay an entry level employee, what kind of health insurance they have to buy, or even as a business owner how much they can make for the time ,effort and risk involved in being a business owner then maybe those folks should move to a country like China or Russia or better yet N. Korea. Think of how simplistic your lives would be. You wouldn't have to worry about making the big decisions about the life you lived. They would all be made for you by some one higher up that you didn't even have to bother to vote for. How convenient would that be? I mean really. A camel with it's head in the sand would be in a total Valhalla in a land like that. Now if you will excuse me I have to go kick the stereo, this record is skipping.

DO WORK

 

[BrotherBart]

Weather is warming up. This cabin fever landfill is not much longer for this virtual world.

 

[ironpony]

all my friends are going away

 

[Grisu]

well, possibly the fact that its government backed currency, do you think Hasbro is going to redeem your monopoly money for actual cash? if this was the case people would sit home on their computers and just print off whatever they want to call money and expect to spend it. just aint going to happen.

Bitcoins are a great example that government backing is not required. There are also plenty of local currencies around without government backing. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Local_currency The problem with monopoly money is its redeem-ability. No one is going to accept that money and change it for something you really want. Let's create some "money":

Take a new hunter in some kind of native tribe. He goes to the master bow builder and asks for a new bow. In return he will give him his first deer. They write that down on a piece of paper creating an IOU. With that we are already half-way to money. The hunter brings the deer and they tear apart the IOU. Win-win for both. Imagine now the bow builder does not want any game but moccasins instead. What does the hunter do now? He goes to their tribal elder who gives him a number of tokens for the signed IOU. The hunter uses those tokens to buy the bow and goes hunting. The bow builder buys his moccasins with them while the hunter sells his deer to get the tokens back. He brings them to the elder who tosses the signed IOU with the tokens in the fire.

You may have guessed it: The tokens are the money. A freely transferable (liquid) IOU with general acceptance in one society (country). Whenever someone goes to a bank we do exactly that: We exchange a non-transferable IOU (our mortgage, business loan etc.) for a transferable IOU ($). That way we can build a house or start businesses without writing individual IOUs to all suppliers which they can only redeem with us. That a $-bill stands for an IOU is even printed on their face:"this note is legal tender for all debts, public and private". We loan money to pay for someone's labor by pledging to use our labor to return that money over time. Thus, money is also a store of labor. We have the mutual agreement that we can trade it at any time for products of labor that we find useful. If people break that agreement or the products are not there, that money has lost its value. Hence monopoly money is no money only because there is no agreement to use it as such. Let's say a large enough group of people is getting stranded on a remote island with some supplies and only one monopoly game, it would be no surprise when they would use those bills as money. As long as someone credible is keeping the books or the supply is limited in another way, people are going to accept it.

 

[Grisu]

Only if they're holding cash dollars. If you're holding real assets, then inflation is your friend.

Nominal values of real assets will rise but their real (inflation-adjusted) rate of return will stay the same (assuming away market imperfections). A house is a house; it is not the house gaining value but the $ losing it. Same for gas, food, tools etc. Inflation is a friend for debtors and a foe of creditors as bond assets will fall in real value when inflation picks up. And the poor are certainly not the creditors.

 

[BrotherBart]

DO WORK

No way. I enjoy my food stamps, subsidized housing, welfare checks and ER care. And Thursday down at the shelter the meatloaf is to die for.

 

[Grisu]

It's not missing. The supply is simply greater than the demand. We only eat so much produce.

So you mean that we have everything we need; there is nothing more people would like to have? Those dozens applicants with a Bs or Ms that I get on my desk are not needed anymore because we don't need to do any research since we already have all the drugs and vaccines we'll need? Our roads are in pristine conditions, our cities are nice and clean, no one goes hungry? Great, then let's just all work less hours so we can all share the the fruits of our enormous productivity. Apparently we have everything, why work so hard anymore?!

P.S. And when we apparently have such an abundance of produce why are 50 million Americans living in "food insecure" households meaning they don't know if they can afford their next meal? Ever seen children coming hungry to childcare while their parents could not give them anything to eat in the morning?

 

[Grisu]

Keep wondering, right along with people living below poverty level. A minimum wage of $10 is only a fifth of 100K per year.

Yep, I am really wondering about that remark. Is it not the same as saying:" It is ok that people live in poverty as long as I can enjoy a cheap loaf of bread."?

I am sure that is not what stoveguy meant. It shows how difficult to understand that whole stuff is.

 

[Ktm300]

No way. I enjoy my food stamps, subsidized housing, welfare checks and ER care. And Thursday down at the shelter the meatloaf is to die for.

As soon as I get these estimates sent out I will meet you at the shelter for Monday night pasta. Worked for a builder from northern Virginia . NV Homes. Wow they pay like Walmart.

 

[BrotherBart]

As soon as I get these estimates sent out I will meet you at the shelter for Monday night pasta. Worked for a builder from northern Virginia . NV Homes. Wow they pay like Walmart.

Apparently the guy that built my house did too.

 

[Grisu]

I'm surprised that no one has picked up on the basic income link. In the 1970's a small town in Manitoba just gave everyone money, rather than a mish-mash of different social assistance programs. (broken link removed to http://www.dominionpaper.ca/articles/4100).

From Wikipedia Basic Income: "In studies of the Mincome experiment in rural Manitoba, the only two groups who worked less in a significant way were new mothers, and teenagers working to support their families. New mothers spent this time with their infant children, and working teenagers put significant additional time into their schooling.[9] Under Mincome, "the reduction of work effort was modest: about one per cent for men, three per cent for wives, and five per cent for unmarried women."[10]

From Wikipedia Mincome: "A final report was never issued, but Dr. Evelyn Forget (/fɔrˈʒeɪ/) conducted an analysis of the program in 2009 which was published in 2011.[4][5] She found that only new mothers and teenagers worked substantially less. Mothers with newborns stopped working because they wanted to stay at home longer with their babies, and teenagers worked less because they weren't under as much pressure to support their families, which resulted in more teenagers graduating. In addition, those who continued to work were given more opportunities to choose what type of work they did. Forget found that in the period that Mincome was administered, hospital visits dropped 8.5 percent, with fewer incidences of work-related injuries, and fewer emergency room visits from car accidents and domestic abuse.[6] Additionally, the period saw a reduction in rates of psychiatric hospitalization, and in the number of mental illness-related consultations with health professionals.[7][8]"

It makes sense to me. There is a lot of money spent on administering social assistance programs. Why not have a Mincome instead? It is all wrong that social assistance often pays more than minimum wage, therefore gov'ts have to subsidize people working minimum wage jobs so that they're not better off on welfare. Have a Mincome and any work you do is on top of the basic amount that everyone gets.

Oh, and before you ask, the 1% can pay for it. They can afford it after all .

Thanks for the link. I favor that proposal: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Job_guarantee It gives people an incentive to work while setting a wage-floor. And society gets the benefit of the labor.

But after reading a bit more about the basic income it may actually work as well.

 

[Ktm300]

Apparently the guy that built my house did too.

Oh you got the Ryan lifestyle ??

 

[Ktm300]

Apparently the guy that built my house did too.

Oh you got the Ryan lifestyle ??

Let me quess .....Thermoply sheathing?

 

[BrotherBart]

Oh you got the Ryan lifestyle ??

Nah. Local builder. Lost his license to build in the county a long time ago. But I did get a kick out of him punching out a building inspector in the front yard of a house he was building. The realtor told us about that and my wife replied "My husband and him will get along just fine.".

 

[begreen]

Cut grass,rake leaves,shovel snow, throw hay,split wood,wash neighbors car,clean the stalls. I started when I was 10. Don't fear the hateful jobs there's lots of them around. Hand outs are not what made this country great. Hard work did. I was lucky my parents instilled hard work in me.

I have been lucky and worked my way up too, but I would never presume that everyone has the same luck or fate. And most of those "hateful" jobs pay - minimum wage. If you are 50+ and tossed in this pool your options for advancement just went down a whole lot.