It’s that time of year ....

[Ashful]

I guess there's no hope of derailment, then. But for the record, I tried. To answer the questions...

Coal baby!

I'd consider it. Unfortunately, the thread you created to discuss your recent install got too hot, and I ducked out. It's unfortunate this site has such a strong bias against coal, as I'll have to go elsewhere to really learn the pros and cons of it, without being shaded by the political BS.

He just built a few wood sheds, though.

No worries. If I eliminate that stove my usage will still be 6+ cords per year, as I'd be keeping the stove that consumes two-thirds of my wood. I'll be able to get by with just four of those sheds, instead of six, and I've only built two so far.

How about getting rid of the two low-output stoves and getting one flame-throwing heat monster?

Them are fighting words... I love my Ashfords! Really, you know I have no hope of heating this joint 100% with wood, unless I make it a full-time job. What's the point of a stove that can consume wood faster than 15 lb./hour, if you can't keep up with feeding it at that rate? I just need a stove that can do perfectly consistent 12-hour cycles, with a very highly-convective factor, and the Ashfords are likely one of the best options at that.

Nothing beats a nice efficient NG fireplace.

I actually tore one of those out five years ago, to put in a second wood stove! But we don't have NG here, it was propane.

I do love my direct vent gas fireplace, but I also burn wood/coal because I want to and I really enjoy it. The fireplace is really convenient for quick heat there’s no disputing that.

So is my oil-fired boiler, and it's likely cheaper, more efficient, and more powerful than any direct vent gas fireplace!

 

[Touch0Gray]

Coal baby!

born and raised in PA (1952). If I never smell coal smoke again it will be way too soon. I'd sooner freeze to death!

 

[webby3650]

born and raised in PA (1952). If I never smell coal smoke again it will be way too soon. I'd sooner freeze to death!

What smoke? I’m talking quality anthracite.

 

[Ashful]

Uh oh... here we go, again.

 

[webby3650]

I'd consider it. Unfortunately, the thread you created to discuss your recent install got too hot, and I ducked out. It's unfortunate this site has such a strong bias against coal, as I'll have to go elsewhere to really learn the pros and cons of it, without being shaded by the political BS.

It is unfortunate. Switching to a hitzer hopper stove is one of the best things I’ve done. I did lots of research on the coalpail before I purchased it and tried to share my experience here. It’s hard to believe politics could stand in the way of a few of us talking about the benefits of coal.

 

[Ashful]

It is unfortunate. Switching to a hitzer hopper stove is one of the best things I’ve done. I did lots of research on the coalpail before I purchased it and tried to share my experience here. It’s hard to believe politics could stand in the way of a few of us talking about the benefits of coal.

What was the coal forum that was recommended, previously?

 

[webby3650]

What was the coal forum that was recommended, previously?

Napa something or other.. cant remember. It’s now the www.coalpail.com

 

[Touch0Gray]

What smoke? I’m talking quality anthracite.

Combustion chambers have changed dramatically since the 50's. The town I grew up is had 16 miles of steel mills, all of which were ultimately shut down because they could never meet EPA guidelines. Consider the amount of coal and coke necessary to fire the blast furnaces for 16 miles of mills, even clean burning coal contributed TONS of fly-ash and even anthracite at 1% sulfur, thousands of tons of sulfur oxides are released into the air. Even without "smoke" I can smell coal burning. You can burn it if you like but even though my stove is rated for coal, I would never burn it. I also grow my own trees, it is a renewable resouce, coal, not so much, at least not in my lifetime.

 

[webby3650]

Combustion chambers have changed dramatically since the 50's. The town I grew up is had 16 miles of steel mills, all of which were ultimately shut down because they could never meet EPA guidelines. Consider the amount of coal and coke necessary to fire the blast furnaces for 16 miles of mills, even clean burning coal contributed TONS of fly-ash and even anthracite at 1% sulfur, thousands of tons of sulfur oxides are released into the air. Even without "smoke" I can smell coal burning. You can burn it if you like but even though my stove is rated for coal, I would never burn it. I also grow my own trees, it is a renewable resouce, coal, not so much, at least not in my lifetime.

I have 37 acres of trees... that’s not the issue. I’m not running a power plant either, 1 ton of coal has pretty low impact on the environment. I can rarely ever smell it, I actually try to smell it after a reload, it’s rare I can smell it. Maybe it had something to do with the hopper? Since the coal is very hot before it ever falls into the fire.

 

[Touch0Gray]

I have 37 acres of trees... that’s not the issue. I’m not running a power plant either, 1 ton of coal has pretty low impact on the environment. I can rarely ever smell it, I actually try to smell it after a reload, it’s rare I can smell it. Maybe it had something to do with the hopper? Since the coal is very hot before it ever falls into the fire.

I am not condemning anyone for burning coal, just saying I hate the smell. Not sure where you were raised, but in western/central and Southern PA, I watched one of the most beautiful, oldest mountain ranges in the world, turned into some of the most acid, acrid sulfurous watersheds in the world. I watched my favorite trout stream turn yellow and die. One ton of coal requires hundreds of tons of other materials to be shoved out of the way to get it out of the ground. In the the area that I grew up in,, coal could be free, there were literally outcroppings of coal among the shale. To this day, if I drive past a coal fired power or heating plant I can smell it.

 

[SpaceBus]

Combustion chambers have changed dramatically since the 50's. The town I grew up is had 16 miles of steel mills, all of which were ultimately shut down because they could never meet EPA guidelines. Consider the amount of coal and coke necessary to fire the blast furnaces for 16 miles of mills, even clean burning coal contributed TONS of fly-ash and even anthracite at 1% sulfur, thousands of tons of sulfur oxides are released into the air. Even without "smoke" I can smell coal burning. You can burn it if you like but even though my stove is rated for coal, I would never burn it. I also grow my own trees, it is a renewable resouce, coal, not so much, at least not in my lifetime.

Not to mention disposing of the ash and heavy metals.

 

[bholler]

born and raised in PA (1952). If I never smell coal smoke again it will be way too soon. I'd sooner freeze to death!

I agree completely. But I work on lots of coal stoves so I have to deal with it.

 

[bholler]

What was the coal forum that was recommended, previously?

Nepacrossroads. For many of us that live in or near coal country it isn't political at all. We see the real world effects of mining and it isn't pretty. Regardless of your political views you can't tell me you want you streams to look like this. And no that isn't mud

 

[Diabel]

Nepacrossroads. For many of us that live in or near coal country it isn't political at all. We see the real world effects of mining and it isn't pretty. Regardless of your political views you can't tell me you want you streams to look like this. And no that isn't mud

Is the fishing there any good? Looks like trout country.

 

[bholler]

Is the fishing there any good? Looks like trout country.

I assume you are kidding.

 

[Diabel]

I assume you are kidding.

Yes
Not a good joke.

 

[webby3650]

Nepacrossroads. For many of us that live in or near coal country it isn't political at all. We see the real world effects of mining and it isn't pretty. Regardless of your political views you can't tell me you want you streams to look like this. And no that isn't mud

Well, my stream certainty doesn’t look like that..
I’m not promoting the careless disposal of ash or the careless practices of harvesting coal. I know there’s issues associated with it. I’m burning 1 ton of it far from the source. The coal industry isn’t fueled by the relatively few people burning it sparingly in the Midwest. Big business is fueling it, not a few Amish households.

 

[bholler]

Well, my stream certainty doesn’t look like that..
I’m not promoting the careless disposal of ash or the careless practices of harvesting coal. I know there’s issues associated with it. I’m burning 1 ton of it far from the source. The coal industry isn’t fueled by the relatively few people burning it sparingly in the Midwest. Big business is fueling it, not a few Amish households.

No streams can end up line that from mining. Not from ash disposal. And no a few households don't cause the problems really. But it bothers me when people who have never been to mining regions say it's all just politics. Not saying that is you. Or that you shouldn't burn coal. Just venting a bit.

 

[webby3650]

No streams can end up line that from mining. Not from ash disposal. And no a few households don't cause the problems really. But it bothers me when people who have never been to mining regions say it's all just politics. Not saying that is you. Or that you shouldn't burn coal. Just venting a bit.

I didn't know there were people here that took issue with coal burning for heating until I naively posted my experience with it thinking people would be interested to know more about it.
We have major creeks that are unsafe for use and noticeably contaminated, from water treatment facilities, if the warning signs weren’t enough..

 

[Touch0Gray]

Nepacrossroads. For many of us that live in or near coal country it isn't political at all. We see the real world effects of mining and it isn't pretty. Regardless of your political views you can't tell me you want you streams to look like this. And no that isn't mud

Well, sulfur mud........ Any one who was born and raised in coal country in the 50's knows exactly what you are looking at. Fact is, a stream running through and natural outcropping can look the same. Sulfur and water.... Ends up producing H2SO4

No streams can end up line that from mining. Not from ash disposal. And no a few households don't cause the problems really. But it bothers me when people who have never been to mining regions say it's all just politics. Not saying that is you. Or that you shouldn't burn coal. Just venting a bit.

I am assuming that you forgot a comma.....did you mean "No, streams CAN end up like that from mining."???

 

[webby3650]

No streams can end up line that from mining. Not from ash disposal. And no a few households don't cause the problems really. But it bothers me when people who have never been to mining regions say it's all just politics. Not saying that is you. Or that you shouldn't burn coal. Just venting a bit.

By the way, I’m on the edge of coal country, there are huge bit coal mines all over the place 20 miles from me. I’m not ignorant to the environmental impact it can have.

 

[bholler]

Well, sulfur mud........ Any one who was born and raised in coal country in the 50's knows exactly what you are looking at. Fact is, a stream running through and natural outcropping can look the same. Sulfur and water.... Ends up producing H2SO4

I am assuming that you forgot a comma.....did you mean "No, streams CAN end up like that from mining."???

Yeah that is what I meant sorry. And while allot of the streams have been cleaned up some are still pretty bad. Shamokin Creek is still pretty orange.

 

[bholler]

By the way, I’m on the edge of coal country, there are huge bit coal mines all over the place 20 miles from me. I’m not ignorant to the environmental impact it can have.

As I said my comments weren't really directed at you. Or anyone in particular. Just venting a bit.

 

[Touch0Gray]

Yeah that is what I meant sorry. And while allot of the streams have been cleaned up some are still pretty bad. Shamokin Creek is still pretty orange.

I started my flame thrower, then re-read it and realized that. I have not been back to PA since 2009 (for my dad's funeral) the water was running clearer, but I did not see any signs of life. When I was a kid, we lived at the top of a mountain so the water quality wasn't bad, we used to spend our days in the woods, playing in the creeks, flipping rocks over looking for crayfish and catching tadpoles. By the time I was 20, that was history, the acid rain had decimated the life in even the mountain streams. I hear it's getting better but watching it circle the drain was really difficult. There is a reason that I moved to the middle of the woods in s central WI to raise my kids.

 

[bholler]

I started my flame thrower, then re-read it and realized that. I have not been back to PA since 2009 (for my dad's funeral) the water was running clearer, but I did not see any signs of life. When I was a kid, we lived at the top of a mountain so the water quality wasn't bad, we used to spend our days in the woods, playing in the creeks, flipping rocks over looking for crayfish and catching tadpoles. By the time I was 20, that was history, the acid rain had decimated the life in even the mountain streams. I hear it's getting better but watching it circle the drain was really difficult. There is a reason that I moved to the middle of the woods in s central WI to raise my kids.

It is getting better yes. But it took lots of money mostly from our tax dollars to clean it up and setup treatment systems for mine drainage. But there are some that may never recover.