Is tuck tape and vapour barrier allowed to touch my chimney thimble?

[Woodstove123]

New house build but reusing my old wood stove. I noticed they tuck taped the vapour barrier around the thimble (I think that's what it's called) in the ceiling. The brand of stove is pacific energy. Is this okay? They are drywalling tomorrow so I'm panicking a bit. If this is not ok, what should be done?

 

[begreen]

It doesn't look great. Neither does the rusty ceiling support. The clearance requirement will depend on the brand of chimney support. I don't recognize this one but I wonder how it would maintain 2" clearance from the chimney pipe.

Do you know what brand chimney is on this system? I'm wondering how old thei chimney is. Has it been inspected to make sure it is HT 2000 rated class A, for integrity, and checked to make sure water has not penetrated the insulation?

 

[Woodstove123]

It doesn't look great. Neither does the rusty ceiling support. The clearance requirement will depend on the brand of chimney support. I don't recognize this one but I wonder how it would maintain 2" clearance from the chimney pipe.

Do you know what brand chimney is on this system? Has it been inspected to make sure it is HT 2000 rated class A, for integrity, and checked to make sure water has not penetrated the insulation?

This house is a new build so no water has penetrated the insulation. It's rusted because water did run down the pipe into the thimble in the old house and I'm reusing the stove and parts for the new house.

The wood stove is pacific energy super 27, 6" double wall smoke pipe sysem and 6" ICC Excel chimney system.

 

[begreen]

Hopefully that's good news. Excel is good chimney pipe. My concern with it is that at some point the pipe insulation, which is exposed on the end, might have soaked up water. If it's been inspected and verified dry then it should be ok.

Is this their ERDSI round support with insulation inside the support? If yes, I recall reading that this support is ok to tape to in order to maintain vapor barrier integrity.

 

[Woodstove123]

Hopefully that's good news. Excel is good chimney pipe. My concern with it is that at some point the pipe insulation, which is exposed on the end, might have soaked up water. If it's been inspected and verified dry then it should be ok.

Is this their ERDSI round support with insulation inside the support? If yes, I recall reading that this support is ok to tape to in order to maintain vapor barrier integrity.

I'm so sorry but the info I provided is all I have. The whole system was installed in the old house in 2010 (previous owner) so all I have is a printed email from the wood stove installation company to the previous owner.
In the previous house, rain water somehow got into the thimble part and was dripping onto the woodstove/floor through a hole in the thimble. Where does the insulation end? Is there a visual?

 

[Woodstove123]

Hopefully that's good news. Excel is good chimney pipe. My concern with it is that at some point the pipe insulation, which is exposed on the end, might have soaked up water. If it's been inspected and verified dry then it should be ok.

Is this their ERDSI round support with insulation inside the support? If yes, I recall reading that this support is ok to tape to in order to maintain vapor barrier integrity.

Here is an image of what it looked like fully installed in the old house.
Water was dripping through that hole you can see on the right side.

 

[begreen]

Is there insulation on the inside of this support? Did the insulation get wet?

Or did someone else remove this chimney support and pipe and reinstall? I ask because the insulation in the support or chimney pipe is still wet, it is not safe.

 

[Woodstove123]

Is there insulation on the inside of this support? Did it get wet?

I don't know which part you are referring to as 'the support'. I don't know if there is insulation anywhere anyway. We also don't know where the water was coming from, though it was during/after a heavy rain. We only know the rainwater dropped into the house/onto the woodstove through this hole (circled in red). I just realized that there is a cover in this photo over the thimble (original picture in the first post) so the water was within that cover. Water definitely wasn't coming through the chimney itself because we took out the baffle to check when it was actively leaking through that circled hole. Any ideas?

 

[begreen]

The first picture with the tape attached is the support without the stove pipe connected. The other pictures show the support with the stove pipe attached. The support holds the weight of the chimney above. It should have insulation inside, surrounding the chimney pipe, to be safe with plastic tape on the outside.

 

[Woodstove123]

The first picture with the tape attached is the support without the stove pipe connected. The other pictures show the support with the stove pipe attached. The support holds the weight of the chimney above. It should have insulation inside, surrounding the chimney pipe, to be safe with plastic tape on the outside.

If it does have insulation inside, why doesn't it have a frame around it like the instructions say?
Here’s a note within those installation instructions: 6. You may insulate right up to the support inside the framed opening. Under no circumstances can insulation be permitted to come in contact with the chimney directly (e.g.: above the top of the support). If the insulation depth exceeds the height of the support you must install a support extension (part# RDSE) to keep the insulation away from the chimney.
https://icc-rsf.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/XM-ERDSI-ang_2011-02.pdf

 

[begreen]

That is for contact with the chimney pipe. Insulation comes in many types with different combustion temperature ratings. Blown in newspaper and spray foam might have the lowest rating and should never touch the chimney pipe. That is why attic insulation shields are required above the support box when in an attic. They use a specific insulation that is probably ceramic or mineral wool which can handle high temperature.

This is not uncommon for chimney supports where they use their own proprietary insulation in the support to maintain safe clearances while sealing at a vapor barrier. Common, fiberglass insulation is not permitted to touch the chimney pipe.

Is there an attic insulation shield above this reinstalled support box as shown here?

 

[Woodstove123]

An update, I spoke to the owner of the company who ordered the EXCEL ERSDI (insulated) product instead. After installing it, he said I could vapour barrier tape directly to the thimble so essentially it now looks identical to the original picture in this post except there is a square metal piece attached to the wood framing and the vapour barrier is over top it and taped to the thimble. I cannot find any specs that say I can tape it directly to the thimble. When it says 2 inch clearance, does that indicate 2in clearance of the chimney pipe or the thimble?

 

[begreen]

The chimney support maintains the 2" clearance from the chimney pipe inside. It can be taped to if it is the insulated ERSDI.

 

[Woodstove123]

The chimney support maintains the 2" clearance from the chimney pipe inside. It can be taped to if it is the insulated ERSDI.

The installer didn't follow the install isntructions on here (https://icc-rsf.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/XM-ERDSI-ang_2011-02.pdf) at all. He didn't fold the vapour barrier into the framing, he didn't acoustic seal the firestop to the framing, he didn't silicone the joint between the firestop and support. The only reason it's sealed from vapour is because I taped the vapour barrier right to the support/thimble. Is this acceptable?

 

[Woodstove123]

The installer didn't follow the install isntructions on here (https://icc-rsf.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/XM-ERDSI-ang_2011-02.pdf) at all. He didn't fold the vapour barrier into the framing, he didn't acoustic seal the firestop to the framing, he didn't silicone the joint between the firestop and support. The only reason it's sealed from vapour is because I taped the vapour barrier right to the support/thimble. Is this acceptable?

Here are pictures to illustrate the ERDSI chimney pipe install and how I tuck taped to the thimble (wett installer told me to). As posted in the previous reply, the instructions state to tape the vapour barrier to the firestop.

 

[begreen]

If it alleviates concern, it looks like it would be fine to tape to the metal plate surrounding the chimney support instead of the round support housing.

 

[Woodstove123]

If it alleviates concern, it looks like it would be fine to tape to the metal plate surrounding the chimney support instead of the round support housing.

I'm just confused because on the spec sheet for ERDSI, it says "The Insulated round support includes an insulation wrap for the chimney length inside the support andan insulated firestop to be sealed to the vapor barrier."

On this page (https://icc-rsf.com/chimney/residential/excel/), it says the following:

"2 inch clearance except in areas protected by factory-built supports certified for reduced clearance. EXCEL round and square supports permit the chimney to be installed with approximately 1 inch of clearance – in the area shielded by the support."

Can you explain this to me?

 

[begreen]

Not following the product directions is unfortunate. That would have made a better, worry-free seal. Was he supplied the instructions in advance?

Will the stove have an outside air connection? This will be important in a tightly sealed home.

 

[begreen]

I'm just confused because on the spec sheet for ERDSI, it says "The Insulated round support includes an insulation wrap for the chimney length inside the support andan insulated firestop to be sealed to the vapor barrier."

On this page (https://icc-rsf.com/chimney/residential/excel/), it says the following:

"2 inch clearance except in areas protected by factory-built supports certified for reduced clearance. EXCEL round and square supports permit the chimney to be installed with approximately 1 inch of clearance – in the area shielded by the support."

Can you explain this to me?

Not sure but I would guess that this is when a roof support is used and a roof radiation shield is installed as shown here:

 

[Woodstove123]

Not following the product directions is unfortunate. That would have made a better, worry-free seal. Was he supplied the instructions in advance?

Will the stove have an outside air connection? This will be important in a tightly sealed home.

Are you referring to make up air? We will have an ERV for fresh air exchange but it's not really important to crack a window unless we are running the dryer or range hood at the same time.

Anyway, back to the original problem. I'm still confused about what the clearance means. When it says "EXCEL round and square supports permit the chimney to be installed with approximately 1 inch of clearance – in the area shielded by the support", what is defined as the chimney? Is the chimney the part I tuck taped to, or is it just the 6inch pipe within the part I tuck taped to?

 

[begreen]

That may or may not work depending on other factors. In a tightly sealed home, an outside air connection is strongly recommended, but perhaps not in Canada.

The chimney support is a cylinder or square box that holds the weight of the chimney while maintaining the proper clearance requirement. The ERDSI is a support for the chimney pipe, the required gap which in this case is filled with insulation, and then the outer cylinder that was taped to.

 

[Woodstove123]

That may or may not work depending on other factors. In a tightly sealed home, an outside air connection is strongly recommended, but perhaps not in Canada.

The chimney support is a cylinder or square box that holds the weight of the chimney while maintaining the proper clearance requirement. The ERDSI is a support for the chimney pipe, the required gap which in this case is filled with insulation, and then the outer cylinder that was taped to.

To clarify, the outer cylinder that was taped to is NOT the support? The support is the metal square attached to the truss/framing?

 

[Woodstove123]

That may or may not work depending on other factors. In a tightly sealed home, an outside air connection is strongly recommended, but perhaps not in Canada.

The chimney support is a cylinder or square box that holds the weight of the chimney while maintaining the proper clearance requirement. The ERDSI is a support for the chimney pipe, the required gap which in this case is filled with insulation, and then the outer cylinder that was taped to.

Additionally, this was installed in the old house. What is it and am I suppose to reinstall it over drywall?