Is this paint discoloration normal on a brand new (<1 day) Regency CI2700?

[north-east-colonial]

I see. We have a good bit of space between the stove and the throat/where the old damper was... would using a reducer be viable instead of needing to install a damper all the way at the top of the chimney? Given this is 42'... all work up there requires lifts, lifts are expensive, etc etc.

So we could do something like 5.5" ss flex liner => 4" reducer => back to 5.5" to connect to stove. If my math is correct a 4" reducer would cut airflow by like 50%? 4.5" is -35%. 5" is -18%.

 

[bholler]

I see. We have a good bit of space between the stove and the throat/where the old damper was... would using a reducer be viable instead of needing to install a damper all the way at the top of the chimney? Given this is 42'... all work up there requires lifts, lifts are expensive, etc etc.

So we could do something like 5.5" ss flex liner => 4" reducer => back to 5.5" to connect to stove. If my math is correct a 4" reducer would cut airflow by like 50%? 4.5" is -35%. 5" is -18%.

Not a damper at the top of the chimney a key damper probably 2 in your case right above the stove

 

[north-east-colonial]

Ah I see. Just found some other threads, e.g. https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/insert-key-damper-install.186463/

So it looks like a few things need to be decided:

1) Do it in the collar? Or the pipe? And if the better answer is the pipe, need to get some solid pipe since its currently 5.5" ss flex. I would do 5.5" flex -> 6" solid. I would need to use refactory cement on the joint between the two, and install a 6" damper like so: https://www.northlineexpress.com/6-cast-iron-stovepipe-damper.html

2) Keep it all the way closed, or slightly angled? Looks like some people kept it fully closed and even covered up the center hole to further restrict. Without covering any holes and leaving this in the closed position, do you know what kind of draft reduction it provides? And when you suggest even adding 2 key dampers, you would add both of them in a fully closed position for an even more significant reduction?

3) Do the keys need to extend outside of the faceplate, or can they be set and left alone, with no access unless you remove the face?

Also, thanks so much for all of the replies. This forum has been a huge help the past couple of months while I research what to do

 

[stoveliker]

You need to extend the handle to where you can access it; during a cold start you may want to have it open to avoid smoke roll out when the chimney is not providing enough draft yet because it's not hot

 

[north-east-colonial]

Regency told the dealer that they have an orifice kit to try before adding dampers, anyone with experience on that?

 

[bholler]

Regency told the dealer that they have an orifice kit to try before adding dampers, anyone with experience on that?

I have never heard of it

 

[north-east-colonial]

Called Regency and they said the same.... wtf...

 

[north-east-colonial]

Installer said it's regency 106-130f

Google says that's a plate pilot reducer for the ci2601. Looks like folks talked about it here: https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...0-fireplace-insert-risky-costly.132252/page-9

 

[bholler]

Installer said it's regency 106-130f

Google says that's a plate pilot reducer for the ci2601

I don't have a clue what they are talking about. But you don't have a pilot or orifice. It almost sounds like gas stove parts

 

[north-east-colonial]

I don't have a clue what they are talking about. But you don't have a pilot or orifice. It almost sounds like gas stove parts

See above link: https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...0-fireplace-insert-risky-costly.132252/page-9

Looks like Regency calls the air intake a pilot/orifice, and people with the CI2600 talked about using them to restrict air.

And the part is listed here: https://www.kastlefireplace.ca/parts/regency/ci2601-hybrid-catalytic-wood-insert/10967/

 

[bholler]

See above link: https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads...0-fireplace-insert-risky-costly.132252/page-9

Looks like Regency calls the air intake a pilot/orifice, and people with the CI2600 talked about using them to restrict air.

And the part is listed here: https://www.kastlefireplace.ca/parts/regency/ci2601-hybrid-catalytic-wood-insert/10967/

Ok I guess.

 

[stoveliker]

I am surprised they can sell this; EPA testing asks for a minimum burn rate to avoid unnecessary pollution. And it does so with some standard (induced) draft that corresponds to the physics of a certain chimney height - hence the recommendation for chimney heights in most manuals.

Restricting the air flow would mess with that minimum burn rate, and I surmise invalidate the EPA approval...?

 

[begreen]

I did see another thread for the CI2700 where @begreen said all is good as long as the cat doesn't go above 1500.

That is a different context specific to the catalyst temperature. The dealer should put a manometer on the flue to measure the draft strength when burning and compare it to Regency's specified requirement. As noted, a 42' tall liner is exceptionally high and well beyond the tested design range.

Restricting the air flow would mess with that minimum burn rate, and I surmise invalidate the EPA approval...?

In the case of a very strong draft, the minimum airflow required for this burn rate may still be achieved though it might howl a bit going through a narrow orifice.

 

[north-east-colonial]

I'll ask them to do the manometer. Do you know the ideal range for the CI2700? Not seeing it in the user manual.

 

[stoveliker]

In the case of a very strong draft, the minimum airflow required for this burn rate may still be achieved though it might howl a bit going through a narrow orifice.

I know, and I agree that it is best to get the system (chimney) up to mfg specs - but I know that e.g. BK can't and won't advise to use a key damper, because of legal issues as I outlined. Hence my surprise that Regency can sell a part that modifies the air on a stove (when other mfgs are even hesitant to suggest a part that only modifies the flue).

 

[begreen]

I know, and I agree that it is best to get the system (chimney) up to mfg specs - but I know that e.g. BK can't and won't advise to use a key damper, because of legal issues as I outlined. Hence my surprise that Regency can sell a part that modifies the air on a stove (when other mfgs are even hesitant to suggest a part that only modifies the flue).

Evidently, this is not as big an issue as it might seem. Some stove manuals recommend adding a damper in the flue for high draft situations. This makes sense. If the stove is getting too much air due to high draft then emissions might be exceeded, especially if the bloom of wood gases exceeds the secondary burn system or cat's ability to combust them.

 

[north-east-colonial]

Update: They installed the orifice to reduce the intake AND they installed a key damper (as in the thread shared above).

Even though it's not particularly cold where I am it got down to ~65 and so I decided to just test it. From a cold start, as soon as the fire got going >500 as measured at the cat I closed down the insert damper all the way, engaged the cat, and closed down the key damper all the way. Cat temperature got up to ~1000, and it took ~4 hours to get back down to 500... so not much change from before, actually. VISIBLY, though, it seemed like the flames were not as strong/vibrant, though, and I compared pictures/videos that seem to confirm that perception. I may not have been as diligent about stuffing the firebox as I was last time, to be fair, but the main observation is there is no dramatic improvement in burn time even if visually it seems a bit better.

The installer said they had never installed one of these key dampers on a wood insert before and they were skeptical, so guessing they won't exactly be open to the idea of installing a 2nd key damper :/

Is that the best solution at this point for a 42' chimney @begreen or any other ideas?

 

[bholler]

Update: They installed the orifice to reduce the intake AND they installed a key damper (as in the thread shared above).

Even though it's not particularly cold where I am it got down to ~65 and so I decided to just test it. From a cold start, as soon as the fire got going >500 as measured at the cat I closed down the insert damper all the way, engaged the cat, and closed down the key damper all the way. Cat temperature got up to ~1000, and it took ~4 hours to get back down to 500... so not much change from before, actually. VISIBLY, though, it seemed like the flames were not as strong/vibrant, though, and I compared pictures/videos that seem to confirm that perception. I may not have been as diligent about stuffing the firebox as I was last time, to be fair, but the main observation is there is no dramatic improvement in burn time even if visually it seems a bit better.

The installer said they had never installed one of these key dampers on a wood insert before and they were skeptical, so guessing they won't exactly be open to the idea of installing a 2nd key damper :/

Is that the best solution at this point for a 42' chimney @begreen or any other ideas?

In all honesty I probably wouldn't agree to install an insert in a chimney that high if asked to. I would not be confident I could get the draft within spec. Did the installers measure your draft?

 

[north-east-colonial]

No, they said they don't have the tools to do that, unfortunately.

 

[bholler]

No, they said they don't have the tools to do that, unfortunately.

Really?? How do they diagnose issues?

 

[north-east-colonial]

Beats me 😬 guess I need to call around and see if there are some other folks in SE PA who want to give this a shot!

4 hours just makes this stove incredibly laborious to actually use, overnight burns won't be a thing and that was one of the main reasons to get it 😥

 

[begreen]

Really?? How do they diagnose issues?

Seems a lot of installation work in this industry is seat-of-the-pants assessment. The lack of code knowledge and sometimes common sense is disturbing.