Is gassification right for a newbie

[Singed Eyebrows]

It seems there are a few discussions going on here.

First, does wood make sense as a fuel locally and for your house specifically? Our house was set up for propane and electricity when we bought it 5 yrs ago. The previous owners were using 4000 gallons of propane a year and the contract price was $4.25/gallon. Not sure why, but propane prices are much higher here than I hear reported in the midwest. Also, we don't have access to natural gas. So comparing fuel costs and because of the fuel consumption in the house, investing in a wood burner was a no brainer for us even paying market rate for wood to be delivered. That stove/chimney was paid for in a few months. This really depends on your heat load and locally available fuels.

Second, does it make sense to produce your own wood. I like control of the quality, cost and have access to free wood from a network that has grown since we started burning. Now that I am set up with dump trailer, splitter and a couple saws, production is about as easy as it gets. I trade about a day of labor and $15 to get a cord of wood from someplace in the city to stacked in my shed. Given that it is not subject to income related taxes and I enjoy doing it, this is worth it to me.

Lastly, if you have a stove that heats the house, does more even heat, dhw and no mess in the house justify the significant capital investment and complexity of the boiler? I could significantly reduce the dhw expense by replacing the older propane water heater. Then, reinstall the electric baseboards to achieve more even heat. Or, make the investment in the boiler and distribution system to eliminate dependence on outside fuel for heat and dhw. This would also eliminate the mess from 8 cord of wood being burned in the living room and the steel box that requires the blowers running when it is cold/blowing out.

My system will likely never pay for itself compared to where I am but I will likely do it for the other benefits. If I needed to run two stoves to heat the house or even load a stove more than twice a day, it wouldn't even be a question.

$16,000 a year for Propane? Thats hard to even imagine, especially for a house! Glad your "woodburner" is doing well for you, Randy

 

[webie]

It seems there are a few discussions going on here.

First, does wood make sense as a fuel locally and for your house specifically? Our house was set up for propane and electricity when we bought it 5 yrs ago. The previous owners were using 4000 gallons of propane a year and the contract price was $4.25/gallon. Not sure why, but propane prices are much higher here than I hear reported in the midwest. Also, we don't have access to natural gas. So comparing fuel costs and because of the fuel consumption in the house, investing in a wood burner was a no brainer for us even paying market rate for wood to be delivered. That stove/chimney was paid for in a few months. This really depends on your heat load and locally available fuels.

Second, does it make sense to produce your own wood. I like control of the quality, cost and have access to free wood from a network that has grown since we started burning. Now that I am set up with dump trailer, splitter and a couple saws, production is about as easy as it gets. I trade about a day of labor and $15 to get a cord of wood from someplace in the city to stacked in my shed. Given that it is not subject to income related taxes and I enjoy doing it, this is worth it to me.

Lastly, if you have a stove that heats the house, does more even heat, dhw and no mess in the house justify the significant capital investment and complexity of the boiler? I could significantly reduce the dhw expense by replacing the older propane water heater. Then, reinstall the electric baseboards to achieve more even heat. Or, make the investment in the boiler and distribution system to eliminate dependence on outside fuel for heat and dhw. This would also eliminate the mess from 8 cord of wood being burned in the living room and the steel box that requires the blowers running when it is cold/blowing out.

My system will likely never pay for itself compared to where I am but I will likely do it for the other benefits. If I needed to run two stoves to heat the house or even load a stove more than twice a day, it wouldn't even be a question.

$16,000 a year for Propane? Thats hard to even imagine, especially for a house! Glad your "woodburner" is doing well for you, Randy

I can tell you 16,000 buys you one heck of a pile of firewood . Guess thats not just to hard of a decision to make .

 

[dogwood]

I'm paying $375.00 per month ($4500.00 yearly) for propane here in Virginia with no end in sight for raises in price. Figure three, four years tops, payback time for my Tarm Solo Innova 50, storage and all those plumbing parts, including outlays for wood and a log splitter and new chainsaw and used pipe threading machine. I get tandem loads of oak and locust logs delivered which I cut and split to offset cost. You can scrounge wood a lot easier than scrounging propane. After the payback, I figure a few hundred a year for logs. We should cut our present bill by at least 80-90%. Plus you don't have to worry about the skyrocketing price of oil, gas or propane. Wood prices appear to be a lot more stable. Jason, you'd have to add your installation costs in.

Mike

 

[dvand]

I hope I'm not coming accross as a troll. I DO burn wood in a fireplace and enjoy burning.

That being said my net cost to heat my house currently and heat water rounded up is about 1200/yr. Even if I could scrounge wood for free the "payback" would be 15,000/1200 = 12.5 years. This excludes inflation, so likely more like 8 years.

If the heat load were lots higher (hot tub/pool/workshop) it would be quite different.

One thing we can scrounge around here are pallets. Anything wrong with breaking up pallets to burn in a wood boiler?

 

[SolarAndWood]

The previous owners were using 4000 gallons of propane a year and the contract price was $4.25/gallon. Not sure why, but propane prices are much higher here than I hear reported in the midwest.

My system will likely never pay for itself compared to where I am but I will likely do it for the other benefits. If I needed to run two stoves to heat the house or even load a stove more than twice a day, it wouldn't even be a question.

$16,000 a year for Propane? Thats hard to even imagine, especially for a house! Glad your "woodburner" is doing well for you, Randy

30 yo inefficient propane forced air furnace, hacked in duct system into house that was originally electric, and 50 ft of floor to ceiling 50 yo single pane glass with rotten wood frames on a windy ridge. Replacing that 2 story wall of glass probably cut the heat load in half. I took one look at the propane bill from the previous owners and removed the furnace to keep us from being tempted to use it.

I understand exactly where the OP is. I can heat the house with what I've got and the stove I have makes the step to a boiler a hard decision. It is super easy to operate, has a big firebox and exceptional combustion control. For us, it comes down to dhw and eliminating the mess from 8 cord through the living room.

 

[SolarAndWood]

I can tell you 16,000 buys you one heck of a pile of firewood . Guess thats not just to hard of a decision to make .

Justifies a lot of new windows, exterior walls, foam, etc. as well. The only thing that rivals what the previous owners were spending on propane is NY taxes.

 

[SolarAndWood]

I hope I'm not coming accross as a troll. I DO burn wood in a fireplace and enjoy burning.

That being said my net cost to heat my house currently and heat water rounded up is about 1200/yr. Even if I could scrounge wood for free the "payback" would be 15,000/1200 = 12.5 years. This excludes inflation, so likely more like 8 years.

If the heat load were lots higher (hot tub/pool/workshop) it would be quite different.

One thing we can scrounge around here are pallets. Anything wrong with breaking up pallets to burn in a wood boiler?

The payback on a $2500 stove is much better if you can heat your house with it which it sounds like you should be able to. It is also much more effective and cleaner than burning in a fireplace. Going after free wood is another issue and depends on what you like doing with your time and how easy the opportunities are in your area. Pallets make good kindling and arguably help you burn wood that should be given more time to dry.

 

[dvand]

I should clarify. I have a "fireplace" but it is an EPA certified sealed unit. I've been investigating whether I could justify upping the game to a wood boiler.

 

[flyingcow]

I hope I'm not coming accross as a troll. I DO burn wood in a fireplace and enjoy burning.

That being said my net cost to heat my house currently and heat water rounded up is about 1200/yr. Even if I could scrounge wood for free the "payback" would be 15,000/1200 = 12.5 years. This excludes inflation, so likely more like 8 years.

If the heat load were lots higher (hot tub/pool/workshop) it would be quite different.

One thing we can scrounge around here are pallets. Anything wrong with breaking up pallets to burn in a wood boiler?

You are making some very good points. It makes sense. If i had a chance to rebuild, it would be r-40 walls/r-60 ceilings, and might design for a central stove to heat the building. Maybe a on demand type of water heater. I dunno, it would be fun to rebuild. I did scratch my head on spending the money that i spent. But i do enjoy the the gasser boiler. It fits my set up/house i have now very well.

Back to on topic........if you are going to put a wood boiler in, newbie or not, IMO a gasser is the way to go. NOT HARD TO OPERATE! IF I CAN DO IT, ANYONE CAN!!! The money for the install will not devalue the property. This fits for me.


JASON762---keep asking questions, find the right fit you need to do. Be satisfied. Enjoy the challenge, Enjoy the people on this site. Good bunch!!

 

[dogwood]

Dvd, it looks like you have found a relatively inexpensive way to heat your home. On the other hand I get ready to hurl every time the propane company raises our rate yet again. Our bill has has increased from $65 a month to $375 a month over the past sixteen years. I can guarantee you my salary hasn't increased 600% to keep pace, or I wouldn't be concerned. At their present rate of increase, they will have my entire retirement check in hand each month by the time I'm 66, or have to wrestle Anthem/Blue Cross for it anyway. There's a lot to be said for being self sufficient, or a close to it as you can get, even if it takes fifteen years. Going solely by your current cost, is not enough to justify missing an opportunity to get yourself free, at least to my way of thinking. And there are still four of those Econoburns for sale on Ebay at a great rate. I'd jump on that right now if I hadn't already purchased our gasser, especially with that Obama $1500 rebate still in effect. Situations vary however, and I'm glad for you your costs are under control. Take it easy.

Mike