Interesting heating experiment

[begreen]

I've posted in the past couple months about the differences noted in heating with the new stove at it's new location. At first I thought that the Castine wasn't putting out the heat. Stove is at 500+, but we could burn all night on a temperate 40 degree day and not budge the livingroom temps where the stove is located much over about 72. After patient observation I suspected that the heat was there but due to the new stove location, a lot more heat was going upstairs. We have an open floor plan with a large stair well going upstairs. I got a good digital thermometer and confirmed that a really nice thermal loop was occuring up and down the stairwell. Previously, the 3CB had been located at the opposite side of the house and the heat had stayed naturally downstairs, but now I was heating the upstairs as much as the downstairs. The temps were remarkably even throughout the house.

Well, now that it's cold outside and snowing like the dickens, I decided to try an experiment. I took some painters blue masking tape and taped a 30", sheet of plastic across the 6 ft. opening where the livingroom joins the hallway that has the stairwell. The ceiling is at one level throughout. The object was to see if I could break or at least slow down the thermal loop. Within about an hour I had my answer. The temp in the kitchen went up by 3 degrees with a waning fire. Upstairs is cooler, and tonight will likely be an electric blanket night for my wife, but the core of the house is much warmer. We'll see how it works when the temps drop another 10-15 degrees tomorrow night. If I can keep the core (LR, DR and Kitchen) temps at 68-70 when it's in the teens, then it will be mission accomplished.

 

[Roospike]

So is this telling you that you need a bigger stove ?

Update us on the down stairs and upstairs square footage.

 

[Martin Strand III]

Congratulations! You have (re)discovered that warm air rises.

Aye,
Marty

Grandma used to say, "Don't fool with Mother Nature."

 

[Rhone]

That is TOTALLY something I would do. The movies showing the secondary burn in my previous post, my wife was yelling at me for "Yet another experiment".

 

[Corey]

That is interesting. I would be curious if you could use a small fan blowing against the natural flow of heat to achieve the same effect? It might be less objectionable than having plastic taped across a doorway.

Corey

 

[begreen]

At this point it's just an experiment with the new stove in a new location. But it is providing useful data that is helpful. At first I thought, bigger stove, but maybe not. I like it cooler upstairs for sleeping. We have high ceilings, so I may create a permanent transom in the hallway opening. Thus the experimenting. It's much easier to move plastic than studs and drywall. Downstairs sq ftg is about 1200, upstairs is about 800. Climate is (normally) mild.

The plastic is only temporary. We've just gone through many months of plastic dust barriers, drop cloths, etc. in the house, so this is nothing. The stove is in the living room about 20 feet from the hallway, yet the thermal loop is pretty evident based on temp readings. I expected a fair amount of spill into the upstairs, but given the distance I didn't expect most to go upstairs. Seems like lot's of folks have just the opposite situation. Well, no cutting holes needed in the floors here.

 

[coldinnj]

and tonight will likely be an electric blanket night for my wife

Now there must be some other ways you can figure out to keep your wife warm
Sometimes I purposely make the house cold so we have an excuse to cuddle.
Other times I getthe house extremely hot so she doesn't need bed clothes LOL

 

[Metal]

You need to install a fire damper in the stairwell. Most of the Big Boxes should stock a 7' x 4' damper that would work well. (kidding)

 

[Mike Wilson]

Only one solution... F600 Firelight! :cheese:

-- Mike

 

[begreen]

You need to install a fire damper in the stairwell. Most of the Big Boxes should stock a 7' x 4' damper that would work well. (kidding)

LOL, . That would be fun getting through as I head up to bed after a few brews.

 

[Harley]

That is TOTALLY something I would do. The movies showing the secondary burn in my previous post, my wife was yelling at me for "Yet another experiment".

Not to go OT, but, I think we're all waiting for the audio portion of that original movie, Rhone! Maybe we could have a contest here - we could submit annonymous audio clips of the spouse or S/O yelling at them and see who could match the clip to the poster - now THAT would be fun

 

[elkimmeg]

what about a ceiling fan to pull the warn air back down?

 

[begreen]

Good suggestion Elk. We've considered that approach too and just talked about it this afternoon. However, that would require tearing up the ceiling and walls to run power to the fan and switch with an unknown outcome. Also, a ceiling fan won't work in a power outage (and we've had a few of these lately) so we're trying to avoid power dependent solutions.

Being lazy and tired of remodeling, I chose the easy route. This experiment had simple success with a passive solution. We're going to leave the plastic up during this cold snap to see how the ceiling air dam works when it's in the low 20's, but so far it's working great.

 

[kevinmoelk]

BG, how about an insulated curtain? You could put it up in the winter, and take it down in the off season. Could have one custom made to match the paint, and quilted for extra R factor. Just a thought. Do you have a picture? It's a little hard to invision what you are talking about.

-Kevin

 

[DiscoInferno]

The stove is in the living room about 20 feet from the hallway, yet the thermal loop is pretty evident based on temp readings. I expected a fair amount of spill into the upstairs, but given the distance I didn't expect most to go upstairs. Seems like lot's of folks have just the opposite situation.

I expected to have the opposite situation, since my stove is in the living room in the back corner of the house and the stairs are in the front center. But all the doorways out of the living room have headers except for the one into the main hallway to the stairs, and this turns the ceiling into one large duct to the stairwell. I can stand at the bottom and feel the cold air pouring down, and at the top and feel an impressive blast of hot air. No ceiling fans in the living room, so it's something like 20 degrees warmer at the ceiling than at the floor, and this seems to be a good thing in that it leaves the living room bearable while substantially heating the upstairs without any circulating fans. So my experience is that headers/archways can be quite effective at steering hot air.

 

[begreen]

That is the situation the plastic barrier has created. We are still getting plenty heat upstairs, but it's about 5 degrees cooler up there than without the barrier. It's acting like a temporary header or transom, slowing down the thermal loop enough for more heat to linger in the living/diring/kitchen rooms. the balance so far is pretty good.

 

[mtarbert]

If you go to your Local hardware store you can buy a closet rod kit made from two wooden caps and a 1 1/4 wood rod. The rod is removable and will accommodate a more attractive fabric curtain. Many old homes have them and I suspect people a hundred years ago knew how to manage the heat flow in their homes.
Mike

 

[Metal]

I think you should put up a beaded curtain!

 

[BrotherBart]

I think you should put up a beaded curtain!

A blacklight and some Jimi Hendrix posters help a lot too.

 

[elkimmeg]

I think you should put up a beaded curtain!

A blacklight and some Jimi Hendrix posters help a lot too.

Make sure it shows pupple in a haze with the back lighting

OK if a ceiling fan is out what about a stove top econo fan type that is self powered so power outages are a non factor and direct it towards the area you want to push the heat.

I remembered you opted not for smokeless top loading so your situation is perfect for the 150 CFM fan.

I think you wife might go along with that look over plastic taped up

What about installing a door at the top of the stairs? If you knew some one real cleaver, what about a pocket door? Then you could have the best of both worlds. out of sight when not in use and available when needed. Could even make that a wife pleasesr, a french glass door

 

[begreen]

I think you should put up a beaded curtain!

A blacklight and some Jimi Hendrix posters help a lot too.

Make sure it shows pupple in a haze with the back lighting

OK if a ceiling fan is out what about a stove top econo fan type that is self powered so power outages are a non factor and direct it towards the area you want to push the heat.

I remembered you opted not for smokeless top loading so your situation is perfect for the 150 CFM fan.

I think you wife might go along with that look over plastic taped up

What about installing a door at the top of the stairs? If you knew some one real cleaver, what about a pocket door? Then you could have the best of both worlds. out of sight when not in use and available when needed. Could even make that a wife pleasesr, a french glass door

We have the ecorfan running all the time, but it hasn't overcome the thermal siphon.

Note: This is only a test, not a permanent setup. If I want to make it permanent I will create a boxed header across the opening. But at this stage it's only an experiment and my wife was chirping happily last night about how much warmer things feel in the kitchen and living room inspite of temps in the 20's.

Today, I took the plastic down and started experiment number 2. Temp outside 28 degrees. This time I put a simple recirc. fan, with recirc off, on the floor in the diningroom pointing towards the stove in the living room. The fan is on low speed. So far the results are great. We are seeing 72 in the livingroom, 71 degrees in the kitchen (at an ell to the dining room) and the hallway temps are at 71downstairs and upstairs at 70. Upstairs in the stairwel there is little differential between floor level and 6 foot height temps. So it appears that the active solution is even better at balancing the stove heat throughout the house. And it's cheap!

Blacklight and Hendrix were up on our walls for years, might be somewhere up in the attic still. Our boys would probably love it if I put them up again, but that would really get a groan out of my wife now.

 

[Gooserider]

Just as a minor note, the GF and I find that an electric mattress pad is much better than an electric blanket. Uses less juice and the heat seems nicer as it isn't being pushed down on you like an electric blanket, but instead just sort of floats up around you and keeps the bed clothes warm.... It also keeps you from kicking it off in the middle of the night and freezing hh:

Gooserider

 

[Hogwildz]

Don't forget the acid & the lava lamps man! Sheesh cmon guys, get with the program man.

I just spent the weekend under one of the kids electric blankets fighting off a stomache flu. Nasty bugger that lasted 2 days. Puking the first day, crapping through a screen door the following day. Anyways, I felt like a baby chick waiting to be hatched in an incubator under that blanket. I hatem!! Too dayum hot Was good for the fever chills though. Cept woke up in a pool of sweat, fighting & kicking furiously to get it off me.

Oh back OT sorry guys.........
My house is open floor plan in main house. lving room, big bathroom, kitchen/dining room combo & back office downstairs. 2 bedrooms and 13 x 26 loft upstairs open to living room and of course stairs near other end between kitchen & office. Its the prefect loop for air to circulate. it gets a few degrees chillier in the office, but thats ok, I like it. With the ceiling fan over living room pushing air back down, keeps rooms of whole main house within a few degrees. I guess it would be much much warmer upstairs without the fan. The ceiliong above living room is 30+ feet and the air zooms right up, without fan.

 

[begreen]

Sorry to hear you we're sick HW. Crapping through a screen eh? That might explain your current color better than rusting out + SPGD.

Yep, ceiling fans and catherdral ceilings are made for each other. For us, the little room fan blowing back towards the stove is working pretty well in spite of the cold temps. No electric blanket yet. Though ours has dual controls so I don't have to bake. I can't stand them either, but then again, I have the quilt off of me and doubled over on my wife's side. I'm fine with a single blanket in winter.

 

[Hogwildz]

Sorry to hear you we're sick HW. Crapping through a screen eh? That might explain your current color better than rusting out + SPGD.

Yep, ceiling fans and catherdral ceilings are made for each other. For us, the little room fan blowing back towards the stove is working pretty well in spite of the cold temps. No electric blanket yet. Though ours has dual controls so I don't have to bake. I can't stand them either, but then again, I have the quilt off of me and doubled over on my wife's side. I'm fine with a single blanket in winter.

Yeah we have the dual control one also. I keep mine totally off, she cranks her up to max. Poblrm is, her on high still bakes me out, so i just fold my half of electrica blanket & comforter over onto her side, then I sleep with one regular blanket also. Shes not comfortable until I am sweating like a pig. Women........ no comment