Insulating Tee?

[farmwithjunk]

I'm trying to figure out if the tee gets wrapped in insulation fully or not. Retailer says it does not but the instructions from Olympia seem to indicate that it does, if I am reading this correctly.

This is a quote from the instruction:
"The liner must be insulated from the bottom of the connector (in the case of a tee from where the tee capis installed up and in the case of a connector from where the connector would stop on insertion into theheating appliance) to 4” (10cm) below the crown. "

That would mean that the insulation goes UNDER the tee snout band clamp. I would think this would potentially allow it to loosen over time as the insulation compresses.

If this was a pre-insulated liner the tee wouldn't get any insulation at all but then clearance to combustibles is 18", correct? I'm pretty sure I'd have at least that either way.

Probably doesn't make much difference but with the pre-insulated (including tee) Duraliner rigid I was dropping from 900 on the stove pipe (inside) to 256F 3 inches down at the exit. I'd think every little bit helps here. I did not have my connector pipe insulated before but clearanced it so that it would fit through the double thick masonry wall. I'm hoping this keeps the gas a bit hotter before it exits. I only have 20' total of piping from the stove collar.

 

[begreen]

That sounds like a huge temperature drop in that short of a run of insulated pipe. Perhaps a measurement is off? One shouldn't be seeing 900º flue temps except perhaps occaisionally on startup.

 

[farmwithjunk]

That sounds like a huge temperature drop in that short of a run of insulated pipe. Perhaps the measurement is off. One should not be seeing 900º flue temps except perhaps occaisionally on startup.

I was purposely running the stove hot to clean the glass and check temps.

This was with 2 feet of uninsulated connector pipe through block, 2 feet of DVL and 16 feet of Duraliner. My probe only went a few inches into the pipe at the cap so I'd expect that is the coldest. Maybe the compressed insulation is less effective?

Any idea on insulating the tee with wrap with the band clamp style take off? I can insulate at least to mid point and trim it around the snout but I wanted to wrap it the whole way to the tee cap if I can.

 

[begreen]

I don't think it will make a huge difference. Again, I am surprised at a 650º temp drop in 20' of insulated pipe.

 

[farmwithjunk]

I don't think it will make a huge difference. Again, I am surprised at a 650º temp drop in 20' of insulated pipe.

Yeah, I was surprised and figured when people say to keep temps over 250F perhaps they have no idea what exit temps actually are. Either way I'll test it once I get my new liner installed in a week or two. Waiting for shipping.

 

[bholler]

I'm trying to figure out if the tee gets wrapped in insulation fully or not. Retailer says it does not but the instructions from Olympia seem to indicate that it does, if I am reading this correctly.

This is a quote from the instruction:
"The liner must be insulated from the bottom of the connector (in the case of a tee from where the tee capis installed up and in the case of a connector from where the connector would stop on insertion into theheating appliance) to 4” (10cm) below the crown. "

That would mean that the insulation goes UNDER the tee snout band clamp. I would think this would potentially allow it to loosen over time as the insulation compresses.

If this was a pre-insulated liner the tee wouldn't get any insulation at all but then clearance to combustibles is 18", correct? I'm pretty sure I'd have at least that either way.

Probably doesn't make much difference but with the pre-insulated (including tee) Duraliner rigid I was dropping from 900 on the stove pipe (inside) to 256F 3 inches down at the exit. I'd think every little bit helps here. I did not have my connector pipe insulated before but clearanced it so that it would fit through the double thick masonry wall. I'm hoping this keeps the gas a bit hotter before it exits. I only have 20' total of piping from the stove collar.

No it doesn't the strap wouldn't work properly if you did

 

[farmwithjunk]

No it doesn't the strap wouldn't work properly if you did

Thanks for confirming. I figured this was the case but the instructions seem to indicate otherwise if I understand them correctly.

"The liner must be insulated from the bottom of the connector (in the case of a tee from where the tee cap is installed up"

Do you support the bottom of the tee in your heavy wall installs?

 

[bholler]

Thanks for confirming. I figured this was the case but the instructions seem to indicate otherwise if I understand them correctly.

"The liner must be insulated from the bottom of the connector (in the case of a tee from where the tee cap is installed up"

Do you support the bottom of the tee in your heavy wall installs?

I do most of the time yes. Usually with a bag of thermix dumped in the bottom

 

[farmwithjunk]

I do most of the time yes. Usually with a bag of thermix dumped in the bottom

I ended up ordering two bags of Thermix to do just that.

I don't have much clearance so I'm going to dry poor then dump water around it. Hopefully its enough to harden it from the tee down. If I can't access the tee cleanout, which I doubt I will, I'll support it with brick then pour. Might have some access without the tee take off connected to pack in mixed. Rather have it and not need it.

Either way, I think it will provide support wet or dry if the lower/clean out hole through the masonry is properly blocked. Prior owner did a pour in insulation with light wall flex that was fun to knock out from the top. Several bags worth are still in the chase so I just need to fill in a few inches around the pipe and down 24" below the tee cap.

 

[bholler]

I ended up ordering two bags of Thermix to do just that.

I don't have much clearance so I'm going to dry poor then dump water around it. Hopefully its enough to harden it from the tee down. If I can't access the tee cleanout, which I doubt I will, I'll support it with brick then pour. Might have some access without the tee take off connected to pack in mixed. Rather have it and not need it.

Either way, I think it will provide support wet or dry if the lower/clean out hole through the masonry is properly blocked. Prior owner did a pour in insulation with light wall flex that was fun to knock out from the top. Several bags worth are still in the chase so I just need to fill in a few inches around the pipe and down 24" below the tee cap.

Add a little water to it before dumping doesn't have to be much

 

[30WCF]

I’m did a similar experiment before. See here, posts 179-197 pages 8 & 9.

I’m gonna monitor this for a little bit. This is my thermometer for my smoker. It’s rated for pretty high temps, so let’s see what changes from top to bottom. I have the probe about 12” deep.
31 degree difference at the moment.
View attachment 321286

View attachment 321285

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If you want to see the difference in readings on warm days vs cold days, hot fires vs cooler fires, just click my name on the quote. It will redirect you to this thread.

It’s like a 50-150 degree difference from stove to flue. The gap grows as the temp increases. I didn’t do to 900, but you may take some guesses based off my findings. I could imagine there could be a200-250 degree difference depending on stack height, but not nearly 700.

 

[farmwithjunk]

I’m did a similar experiment before. See here, posts 179-197 pages 8 & 9.

If you want to see the difference in readings on warm days vs cold days, hot fires vs cooler fires, just click my name on the quote. It will redirect you to this thread.

It’s like a 50-150 degree difference from stove to flue. The gap grows as the temp increases. I didn’t do to 900, but you may take some guesses based off my findings. I could imagine there could be a200-250 degree difference depending on stack height, but not nearly 700.

I suspect it has a lot to do with volume of air moving in the stack. While I can hit 1000F on the pipe (18" up via probe) the air can be completely down at peak burn with the cat. The increased dwell time would let the air cool considerably vs cooler air moving and several times the volume.

 

[30WCF]

I suspect it has a lot to do with volume of air moving in the stack. While I can hit 1000F on the pipe (18" up via probe) the air can be completely down at peak burn with the cat. The increased dwell time would let the air cool considerably vs cooler air moving and several times the volume.

I’m sure. Volume, and having a cat probably make a lot of difference. I’m running about 6’ of double wall inside, and only about 12’ of class A to get through the attic and above the roof. Some of the folks here have stoves in the basement of a 3 story home.
If I’m hitting 1000, that means I’m having massive problems.
I’m no stranger to 900STT, but that’s still only 700-750 flue for my stove.

 

[farmwithjunk]

I’m sure. Volume, and having a cat probably make a lot of difference. I’m running about 6’ of double wall inside, and only about 12’ of class A to get through the attic and above the roof. Some of the folks here have stoves in the basement of a 3 story home.
If I’m hitting 1000, that means I’m having massive problems.
I’m no stranger to 900STT, but that’s still only 700-750 flue for my stove.

Peak burn with the stove stuffed to the max can hit 900-1000F a few hours later closing air down completely and even having the damper closed. And that's on only 16' of chimney. CAT will be glowing as is the shield and burn tube. It doesn't hold this long but I have a camera on my stove that records 24/7 so I can watch the temp on the door and the stove pipe. When the CAT was new it would easily overheat. I even have a blower on mine which helps but I've never seen STT go above the 750F range. I have seen it glowing on IR camera around the CAT. I'm guessing this isn't much below visible glowing temps.