Inferno Factory Tour

[vvvv]

Energy Content and Weight per Cord of
Certain Types of Wood Found in Wisconsin

Type of Wood Energy Content / Cord of Wood
(MMBtu* / cord) Energy Content / Pound of Wood
(Btu / pound) Weight / Cord of Air-Dried Wood
(pounds / cord)
Ash 20.0 5,814 3,400
Aspen 12.5 5,787 2,160
Balsam Fir 11.3 5,381 2,100
Beech 21.8 5,798 3,760
Birch (Yellow) 21.3 5,788 3,680
Hickory (shagbark) 24.6 5,801 4,240
Maple (sugar) 21.3 5,788 3,680
Oak (white) 22.7 5,791 3,920
Pine (white) 13.3 6,394
oak has 5791/lb & pine has 6394/lb
(broken link removed to http://www.uwsp.edu/cnr/wcee/keep/Mod1/Whatis/energyresourcetables.htm)

 

[smoke show]

Show me a shart .

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[vvvv]

try the new link= i edited

 

[vvvv]

(broken link removed to http://www.uwsp.edu/cnr/wcee/keep/Mod1/Whatis/energyresourcetables.htm)

 

[jtakeman]

Show me a shart .

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Oops! getting sleepy and its past my bed time! Sorry I meant chart. I could have writen fart and never noticed.

 

[vvvv]

good nite Kenny

 

[jtakeman]

http://www.uwsp.edu/cnr/wcee/keep/Mod1/Whatis/energyresourcetables.htm

Wish it had more species. Yes there close but not the same. I do see some difference. From your statement I would expect almost NO difference. Like to see more species involved.

Once the wood has been turned to dust, I wonder how much this would change the values? Also if you had a pound of Oak dust and a pound of Pine. is there a difference in volume???

 

[jtakeman]

Show me a shart .

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Ahhh. Now I got the lol!

http://www.uwsp.edu/cnr/wcee/keep/Mod1/Whatis/energyresourcetables.htm

Wish it had more species. Yes there close but not the same. I do see some difference. From your statement I would expect almost NO difference. Like to see more species involved.

Once the wood has been turned to dust, I wonder how much this would change the values? Also if you had a pound of Oak dust and a pound of Pine. is there a difference in volume???

Edit: After reviewing your link and looking at your quoted values.

oak has 5791/lb & pine has 6394/lb

How are the pellet mills getting the BTU values up over 8K BTU's?? If it isn't compression(density), how would you explain???

By the way sorry we jacked this thread pretty bad!

 

[smwilliamson]

(broken link removed to http://www.woodheat.org/firewood/firewood.htm)

White Oak=30,600

White pine=17,100

That's million BTU's per cord. Other chart's have the approx weight per cord as well. You would need that to get a correct BTU per pound. Oak is naturally denser than Pine. So there is more Oak per weight in cord wood. Somehow you have to make the softwood heavier to equalize the BTU's. I think when they are turned to dust this may help some. But I still think it will take more softwood fiber in a pellet to make it match the hardwood pellet. Somewhere there has to be a corrected chart that states BTU's per pound. Hard to believe that a white pine pellet has more BTU's per pound than an Oak pellet with out making it denser to equalize them.

I am not trying to knock the softwoods. I know that they do burn just as hot as the hardwoods. Unfortunately the softwoods are lower BTU's on the cordwood scale charts. Hard not to use them as an example. Is it the density of the pellet process or is it only the convertion to dust that brings them closer to the end pelletized BTU value?

Hence 60 bags on the pallet instead of 40

 

[seige101]

I'm burning them in a brand new Regency GF55 all weekend at the fair. Hopefully they will be dirty as all hell, cause I'm also doing cleaning demos every three hours. %-P

Boy that Regency GF55 looks alot like an Enviro! Sherwood Ind. have anything to do with them???

Yeah..they make it. It's a meridian. So is the Vista Flame VS100. I figure if I cannot become an Enviro dealer for parts...I'll become a Regency dealer and get them through them...yet another system workaround.

I have always loved the Meridian. It's a Whitfield Advantage after all.

Scott,
where is your shop? MA or RI? and what fair are you talking about?

MA, Rehoboth Fair. Trying to get into Belchertown and Bolton, but I may be too late. The idea just came to me last weekend.

If you make to the belchertown fair i will see you there!

 

[vvvv]

http://www.uwsp.edu/cnr/wcee/keep/Mod1/Whatis/energyresourcetables.htm

Wish it had more species. Yes there close but not the same. I do see some difference. From your statement I would expect almost NO difference. Like to see more species involved.

Once the wood has been turned to dust, I wonder how much this would change the values? Also if you had a pound of Oak dust and a pound of Pine. is there a difference in volume???

once its dust the volume is the similar. softwood has more air in the log than hardwood, the dust of both has no air in it.

 

[jtakeman]

http://www.uwsp.edu/cnr/wcee/keep/Mod1/Whatis/energyresourcetables.htm

Wish it had more species. Yes there close but not the same. I do see some difference. From your statement I would expect almost NO difference. Like to see more species involved.

Once the wood has been turned to dust, I wonder how much this would change the values? Also if you had a pound of Oak dust and a pound of Pine. is there a difference in volume???

once its dust the volume is the similar. softwood has more air in the log than hardwood, the dust of both has no air in it.

So if the Oak and Pine fiber were dried to the same moisture content. And compressed to the same density. The pine pellet would have a slightly higher BTU content? Yesssss???

 

[jtakeman]

http://www.uwsp.edu/cnr/wcee/keep/Mod1/Whatis/energyresourcetables.htm

Wish it had more species. Yes there close but not the same. I do see some difference. From your statement I would expect almost NO difference. Like to see more species involved.

Once the wood has been turned to dust, I wonder how much this would change the values? Also if you had a pound of Oak dust and a pound of Pine. is there a difference in volume???

once its dust the volume is the similar. softwood has more air in the log than hardwood, the dust of both has no air in it.

So if the Oak and Pine fiber were dried to the same moisture content. And compressed to the same density. The pine pellet would have a slightly higher BTU content? Yesssss???

That is absolutely correct..........which is what A LOT of people (not just New Englanders') don't understand about pellets.

Here I was thinking the softwoods needed to be compressed more to equal a hardwood pellet. Actually a hardwood has to be slightly denser to equal a softwood.

 

[jtakeman]

http://www.uwsp.edu/cnr/wcee/keep/Mod1/Whatis/energyresourcetables.htm

Wish it had more species. Yes there close but not the same. I do see some difference. From your statement I would expect almost NO difference. Like to see more species involved.

Once the wood has been turned to dust, I wonder how much this would change the values? Also if you had a pound of Oak dust and a pound of Pine. is there a difference in volume???

once its dust the volume is the similar. softwood has more air in the log than hardwood, the dust of both has no air in it.

So if the Oak and Pine fiber were dried to the same moisture content. And compressed to the same density. The pine pellet would have a slightly higher BTU content? Yesssss???

That is absolutely correct..........which is what A LOT of people (not just New Englanders') don't understand about pellets.

Here I was thinking the softwoods needed to be compressed more to equal a hardwood pellet. Actually a hardwood has to be slightly denser to equal a softwood.

Because a hardwood is denser in its natural form and people in NE have been burning hardwood for centuries in their fireplaces and woodstove, most just naturally ASSUME it will burn better than a softwood....which is totally true in a fireplace or woodstove. But we aren't doing that now are we....We are burning in a PELLET STOVE and once someone understands the manufacturing of a pellet and what actually goes on (hardwood vers softwood) you can understand that a "good" softwood can hold its own against just about every hardwood pellet on the market.* But it either takes someone to actually prove that to themselves by burning some, or most likely someone taking the time to properly explain it them (this is usually done in hearth stores or the better pellet retailers) so they get it. * If you want even more proof, “PM” me and I will email you Jay’s test results he did last fall/winter , which I have organized into a nice pdf report that I would be happy to send to you…just let me know your email address.

I just laugh and have to shake my head when I hear a retailer tell me that "softwood pellets don't sell in my market" when I know for a fact that a store maybe 25 miles away sells 1200 tons a year of them. You can’t tell me that there is some mythical line that is drawn between the two shops and only hardwood pellets are sold on the one side. It's just simply lack of knowledge and ol' wife's tales that makes people think this way. Don't believe me?....Take the Pepsi challenge...!!....Try two bags of my product or another really good softwood pellet. Dragon Mtn, Eagle Valley, Surefire, Uncle Jed’s, even LG's or my direct competition Spruce Pointe and then burn your brand. If you have never tried a softwood before, I bet you will be very pleasantly surprised how well they do in your stove and I wouldn't even be surprised you find less ash left over.....I bet some of you will even make the switch and be very happy you did. Certainly not all of you....but what do you really have to lose to try for yourself and see....Go on, I double dog dare you.....

PS... I'm sorry this thread got totally jacked........

Well we done jacked the heck out of this thread, so here goes some more. To add to what BTU says. The softwoods are the cleanest pellet by far. If you look at my test you will see the above mentioned brands all were easily in the super premium class! Less than .3%. One thing I didn't mention was the consistency of the ash. Very light and fluffy. There was no caking or clumping. Not a clinker to be found. I say try them too if you want a nice clean stove that lasts and lasts. Oh yea, They throw some nice heat too!

 

[WoodPorn]

http://www.uwsp.edu/cnr/wcee/keep/Mod1/Whatis/energyresourcetables.htm

Wish it had more species. Yes there close but not the same. I do see some difference. From your statement I would expect almost NO difference. Like to see more species involved.

Once the wood has been turned to dust, I wonder how much this would change the values? Also if you had a pound of Oak dust and a pound of Pine. is there a difference in volume???

once its dust the volume is the similar. softwood has more air in the log than hardwood, the dust of both has no air in it.

So if the Oak and Pine fiber were dried to the same moisture content. And compressed to the same density. The pine pellet would have a slightly higher BTU content? Yesssss???

That is absolutely correct..........which is what A LOT of people (not just New Englanders') don't understand about pellets.

Here I was thinking the softwoods needed to be compressed more to equal a hardwood pellet. Actually a hardwood has to be slightly denser to equal a softwood.

Because a hardwood is denser in its natural form and people in NE have been burning hardwood for centuries in their fireplaces and woodstove, most just naturally ASSUME it will burn better than a softwood....which is totally true in a fireplace or woodstove. But we aren't doing that now are we....We are burning in a PELLET STOVE and once someone understands the manufacturing of a pellet and what actually goes on (hardwood vers softwood) you can understand that a "good" softwood can hold its own against just about every hardwood pellet on the market.* But it either takes someone to actually prove that to themselves by burning some, or most likely someone taking the time to properly explain it them (this is usually done in hearth stores or the better pellet retailers) so they get it. * If you want even more proof, “PM” me and I will email you Jay’s test results he did last fall/winter , which I have organized into a nice pdf report that I would be happy to send to you…just let me know your email address.

I just laugh and have to shake my head when I hear a retailer tell me that "softwood pellets don't sell in my market" when I know for a fact that a store maybe 25 miles away sells 1200 tons a year of them. You can’t tell me that there is some mythical line that is drawn between the two shops and only hardwood pellets are sold on the one side. It's just simply lack of knowledge and ol' wife's tales that makes people think this way. Don't believe me?....Take the Pepsi challenge...!!....Try two bags of my product or another really good softwood pellet. Dragon Mtn, Eagle Valley, Surefire, Uncle Jed’s, even LG's or my direct competition Spruce Pointe and then burn your brand. If you have never tried a softwood before, I bet you will be very pleasantly surprised how well they do in your stove and I wouldn't even be surprised you find less ash left over.....I bet some of you will even make the switch and be very happy you did. Certainly not all of you....but what do you really have to lose to try for yourself and see....Go on, I double dog dare you.....

PS... I'm sorry this thread got totally jacked........

Well we done jacked the heck out of this thread, so here goes some more. To add to what BTU says. The softwoods are the cleanest pellet by far. If you look at my test you will see the above mentioned brands all were easily in the super premium class! Less than .3%. One thing I didn't mention was the consistency of the ash. Very light and fluffy. There was no caking or clumping. Not a clinker to be found. I say try them too if you want a nice clean stove that lasts and lasts. Oh yea, They throw some nice heat too!

I for one wish I had been armed with this forum and Jay's test results before last year. I am a firm believer in the softwood pellets (but price dictated towards a hardwood this year) I've had some of the highest temps from Okies. BTU; I wish there were more open minded people(burners) out there, you'd probably be able to retire by now!

 

[Pellet-King]

What happened to the taslk about Inferno pellets?, are they better or what?, are the more dense or less dense?

 

[Pellet-King]

What happened to the talk about Inferno pellets?, are they better or what?, are the more dense or less dense?

 

[smwilliamson]

Yeah...what happened to my thread here...you hi-jack pigs should be ashamed of yourselves.

 

[smwilliamson]

What happened to the talk about Inferno pellets?, are they better or what?, are the more dense or less dense?

If I have to be honest, I found the factory to very interesting. Overall the pellets looked somewhat the same, but I was viewing them prior to bagging. Things that stuck with me;

1. They said that many of the problems which they had last year resulted from raw material they were taking in which was very high in moisture (greater than 3%). They implemented a policy that there is a guy who oversees the unloading of the raw and inspects it with a moisture meter before the unload, and 4 times during the process. Fine, but looking at the area where the unload happens....very dirty, messy and covered in dirt and dust. No one was there cleaning it up, perhaps they do it once a day...but the moisture measuring instrument was just left sitting on a folding chair covered with dust. It looked like a cheap moisture meter too. Also, I saw no visible signs of a clipboard, a paperwork station or anything of the sort. They said that they just unloaded a truck 20 minutes ago and that I missed it. Around the chair where the moisture meter was...there were no footprints. Where are the footprints from the moisture reading guy 20 minutes ago. I found this "messiness" kind of throughout the mill....and well I understand that making pellets is not a sterile as making semiconductors, there is a thing called pride. Wearing a shirt with pit stains day after day after day says something about you. I did see a few people cleaning up one area where they were working...but no one was working in the receiving area and it was not clean. Throughout the tour I saw 4 employees plus a receptionist (hot BTW ;-) )

2. I DID NOT SEE A DRYER ANYWHERE. it seems that the factory may be relying on dry product to be delivered to them, with the remaining of the moisture to be expelled through the process. I do not know how mills go about this but I always see these huge dryer tubes...did not see one here but did see that the receiving conveyor dumped the material in the rear of the building where it is loaded to the hammer mill. To note, all of the product in here is misted with water to control the dust.

3.During my tour one of the mills shut down. Quickly the super ran to the machine and opened it up to solve the problem....but he started shoveling out the fiber and it was all dropping onto the belt which then goes upward to be screened. I asked why the super didn't drag the ramp over so the raw material wouldn't fall to the production belt and could hit the floor or into a hopper. They said that it didn't matter because the sifting conveyor will get the fines out. SO WILL NOT LETTING THE FINES GET INTO THE PRODUCTION LINE.

To be better, you have to want to be better. You have to show that you are better, even when you think nobody is looking. PRIDE. Didn't see a lot of it.

Ahhhhh. last thing, there are visible signs of a fire right on the front of the building viewable from the street. They said that someone lit fire their dumpster which was against the building. Again...too lax. Dumpsters are not supposed to be against the building for this reason, I believe this may be in the fire code too.

4. A sheet of cardboard is laid on top of the pallet prior to the bags being dropped. I would put something on the skid that moisture resistant.

 

[jtakeman]

Yeah...what happened to my thread here...you hi-jack pigs should be ashamed of yourselves.

Sorry, I will try harder next time! But I say its all Blimps fault! He's a trouble maker you know. :cheese:

 

[Pellet-King]

4. A sheet of cardboard is laid on top of the pallet prior to the bags being dropped. I would put something on the skid that moisture resistant.

All i ever seen in 12 years is a piece of cardboard on top of pallet.

I wonder if any other pellet manufacturers read this Forum?, personally if i read my pellet's weren't good i would do whatever i could to improve them, it can only help them in the long run.

Maybe most of them think like myself before I came here and didn't realize the differences of pellet's and as long as they burn and the bags stay together there doing a good job?, also there supply source is limited which would prevent a proper pellet being made, also maybe some of them aren't even internet/computer illiterate?

 

[deprayb]

We all know Inferno was not at the top of there game the past few years. I'm currently a distributor for Inferno for most of the northeast. I was very skeptical when I first got the offer to distribute them. All I had heard was bad things about there pellet, but like smwilliamson, I had got a tour of the mill by Tony and was very very pleased with what I saw. They have worked out all their problems with there new mill, and if you know anything about starting a new mill you know that it is extremely difficult the first years of production. Inferno has got there stuff together this year and is one of the top pellets in the industry for this coming winter.

If you don't want to take my word for it, just call me at 860-242-0280 and I will be more than happy to give you a bag or two to test for yourself.

 

[vvvv]

We all know Inferno was not at the top of there game the past few years. I'm currently a distributor for Inferno for most of the northeast. I was very skeptical when I first got the offer to distribute them. All I had heard was bad things about there pellet, but like smwilliamson, I had got a tour of the mill by Tony and was very very pleased with what I saw. They have worked out all their problems with there new mill, and if you know anything about starting a new mill you know that it is extremely difficult the first years of production. Inferno has got there stuff together this year and is one of the top pellets in the industry for this coming winter.

If you don't want to take my word for it, just call me at 860-242-0280 and I will be more than happy to give you a bag or two to test for yourself.

First off, I would like to welcome you to the forum. Having manufactures/distributors on this board adds something and hopefully you can better educate the public on what Inferno pellets are all about.

Since I am a direct competitor of yours, I don’t want to come across as pissing on your parade or anything, but with all due respect, I find it somewhat unbelievable to say the statement that your pellet is one the best for this coming season. With over 60+ brands selling alone in New England, some for many many years and your brand finishing dead last in a customer test done last fall/winter, it would take a small miracle for your brand to make such a huge turn around in such a short period of time.

Granted after the results your pellet produced last year, your results could really only get better, but I certainly haven’t seen those dramatic results showing up in actual test results or feedback from the dealer network that we both talk to daily.

Once you have been on this board for a short time, you will understand that this is a VERY knowledgeable crowd and they aren’t afraid to call it like they see ‘em. Needless to say, there hasn’t been too many kind words about your brand in the past and given that it is a recycled product with a terrible reputation coming into this season, I guess time will tell.

I can honestly say that I hope your pellet is better this year, because frankly as bad as it was in the past and the number of people who were really dissatisfied with it only hurt our industry. I’m all for any manufacturer making a better product for the public’s use, since that only helps everyone.

To state that your pellet is equal to or better than …Cubex, Turman’s, Barefoot, Hamer’s and many many others, is pretty ballisy of you, but if it is, then this board will sing your praises….if not…prepare to duck..!!

Again…welcome

whts the procedure PFI uses to evaluate the btu content of pellets as stamped on the bag?also= Whats your inhouse procedure?

 

[tinkabranc]

.... Inferno has got there stuff together this year and is one of the top pellets in the industry for this coming winter.

If you don't want to take my word for it, just call me at 860-242-0280 and I will be more than happy to give you a bag or two to test for yourself.

Welcome to the forum!

In support of a local mill starting up, I hope they do get their stuff together this year and become a better competitor in the market.
However, IMO there is no way they could become one of the top dogs in one season.

I tried out some Inferno last year and absolutely hated them. Out of all the brands I tried over the years, I consider them
the bottom of the barrel as they were nothing but a crumbly mess with little heat.

Word on the streets is that they have been listening to the complaints and are addressing the issues.
Have they? I don't know, but I will not be trying them out again this year unless I got em for free.

 

[jtakeman]

We all know Inferno was not at the top of there game the past few years. I'm currently a distributor for Inferno for most of the northeast. I was very skeptical when I first got the offer to distribute them. All I had heard was bad things about there pellet, but like smwilliamson, I had got a tour of the mill by Tony and was very very pleased with what I saw. They have worked out all their problems with there new mill, and if you know anything about starting a new mill you know that it is extremely difficult the first years of production. Inferno has got there stuff together this year and is one of the top pellets in the industry for this coming winter.

If you don't want to take my word for it, just call me at 860-242-0280 and I will be more than happy to give you a bag or two to test for yourself.

I am the said pellet tester that tried the Inferno's last year. I would be more than glad to burn some for the group and post the results. I am also in CT. so I will try to hook up with you for the 2 bag sample you are offering. I promise to be fair and only post what is actual. If you need links to the test data? Let me know, I can link them for you.

Welcome aboard!