im done with pellets

[bholler]

Anthracite is 92-98% pure carbon

Yes some of it is that high but allot of it is as low as 80% carbon. And that is carbon by weight. It doesn't take very much weight much sulfur dioxide (which yes sulfur is in anthracite) to make allot of sulfuric acid

Was never talking about ash disposal, only air quality.

You never said that at all you said it burnt as clean as ng. Which it does not at all. Have you ever been to a coal town in northern pa where almost everyone is still burning anthracite coal for heat? If not go find a coal town and take a deep breath then tell me how clean it burns.

Yes, technically coal is a little less clean than NG, but it is far cleaner than pellets and wood and is by no means the messy dirty pollutant most people make it out to be. Quite the opposite!

Where is the information to support these claims? It is cleaner that wood and pellets in some ways yes. It does have much less volume of emissions But the emissions it does have are much more harmful,

 

[Michael6268]

Again, speaking of air emmissions.

Anthracite coal produces virtually no smoke or particulate emissions as with cord wood and pellet burning stoves. That is fact. Stated right from the epa. EPA doesn't even currently have restrictions on coal burning appliances as they do with wood and pellets.
I have been to Pennsylvania coal burning country many many times. & I would much rather breathe the air down there then in the wood burning counties where every house has a wood or pellet stove.

 

[Michael6268]

Not to mention the large amounts of methane gas that are released into the atmosphere in the production / extraction of natural gas.

 

[Bioburner]

large amounts of methane gas that are released into the atmosphere in the production

Mooo! California is trying to reduce the emissions of cows

 

[bholler]

Anthracite coal produces virtually no smoke or particulate emissions as with cord wood and pellet burning stoves.

Correct but what about the other emissions?

Not to mention the large amounts of methane gas that are released into the atmosphere in the production / extraction of natural gas.

I agree entirely that ng is far from perfect but we are talking about burning characteristics if you want to get into environmental impact of extraction take a look at coal mines

 

[ad356]

i watched a documentary recently that blames nearly all of the problems with the air quality and enviroment on the production of beef and other animal husbandry activities. they say that it takes 660 gallons of water to produce one pound of beef. it also went on to claim that livestock produces vast amounts of nitrous oxide and that its much worse then carbon. they blame it for the disappearance of the amazon rain forests. maybe all of this green this and that is nothing but a lie to get people to spend money. think of it this way, how many of you are spending big bucks on pellets simply because you think its clean then other sources of heat. ALL sources of heat create pollution to some varied degree.

if you are buying pellets at $260 or $280 per ton your a victim of the green propaganda. i burned pellets for 5 years and when they were $150 per ton they were acceptable. if anthracite is avaliable where you live and you are buying pellets your brainwashed. perhaps you could put the pellet stove away for a while and buy a direct vent coal stove to in its place.

if burning coal is slightly more pollution then pellets i dont really care. my home is warm and im spending ALLOT less money doing it. being green is no excuse to spend more and be cold. it sounds like a win win to me. my neighbors and burning wood right now and i can see the smoke coming out of the chimney as for me im burning coal and you see nothing coming out of the chimney. what's important to me is that

1. my home is well heated
2. my home is safe. i have a carbon monixide detector i know that's a concern. also coal does not heat up the chimney and will NEVER cause a chimney fire. its impossible to have a chimney fire burning coal. coal is a different animal and operates much differently then wood. stove pipe temp right now is around 140 degrees. i can touch it without taking the skin off of my hands. the hottest it will get is probably 200 degrees with the stove giving all that it has. i have seen wood fired stoves produce pipe temps of 450+
3. i save money. my wage is not going up. i need money for groceries and living expenses. pellets are probably close to $100 more then they were 5 years ago. i paid $240 per ton bulk coal, pellets are $260 i have roughly 10-12 more million BTU of "free" heat if pellets are the same price. the costs cannot continue to rise and not make more money to compensate for the increased costs of living. the money has to come from somewhere. coal WILL significantly reduce heating bills over pellets NO QUESTIONS or DOUBTS about it. i should save $7-800 bucks, that's a month mortgage

i sold the harman quickly because i was afraid of what would happen to the value of that unit if pellets go $300 or even more. people will rethink it. i also think harman made a huge mistake letting go of the coal line and letting their wood stoves sales die off. if they rely on pellets alone the day is coming that they wont be able to sell anything unless pellets go back down. that's not the trend i have seen, they just go up, up, and up

also pellets are no longer being sourced from scrap wood like they were at one time. now they have to harvest trees and waste all of the energy cutting those trees up and processing them into pellets. why not just burn that same wood as cord wood, would that make more sense?

 

[bholler]

if burning coal is slightly more pollution then pellets i dont really care. my home is warm and im spending ALLOT less money doing it. being green is no excuse to spend more and be cold. it sounds like a win win to me. my neighbors and burning wood right now and i can see the smoke coming out of the chimney as for me im burning coal and you see nothing coming out of the chimney. what's important to me is that

I never said that you should not heat with coal. I only took issue with the satement that coal burnt as clean as ng. It simply is not true

 

[Michael6268]

To be fair, I am not aware of any research/documentation stating emissions in a residential application, calculated per BTU, comparing natural gas and anthracite coal emissions

 

[bholler]

To be fair, I am not aware of any research/documentation stating emissions in a residential application, calculated per BTU, comparing natural gas and anthracite coal emissions

So your assumptions are based purely on speculation? There may not have been studied directly compaining the 2 but both have been analyzed and anthracite has much more harmful emissions

 

[killie11]

Holy hell, how does someone burn 7 tons in a 1500sq house? I have a 1800 single floor house that I consider poorly insulated and I only burn 4-5 tons a season.

 

[Peterfield]

Holy hell, how does someone burn 7 tons in a 1500sq house? I have a 1800 single floor house that I consider poorly insulated and I only burn 4-5 tons a season.

Maybe he should try it with the windows closed.

 

[Michael6268]

So your assumptions are based purely on speculation? There may not have been studied directly compaining the 2 but both have been analyzed and anthracite has much more harmful emissions

You as I can't say that for sure. Where comparative test done on residential heating appliances on a per BTU basis? I you tell me. Where are you getting your facts and figures? Are they based on a residential heating appliance? Are they equal in BTU versus emissions? Personally I really don't care to get into the scientific end of it. If you want to supply your facts I'll gladly read them. But the debate is really pointless. Coal is not the dirty polluting fuel that most people accuse it of being. And if you wish to point out post inaccuracies, I will glady point out many of yours.

 

[bholler]

http://www3.epa.gov/ttnchie1/conference/ei12/area/haneke.pdf

Here is one study and please point out any innacuracies

 

[Michael6268]

I'll pm ya later, as this is getting off topic.
I,ll send you some of you inaccurate posts/threads too! We'll have a ball!!

 

[BrotherBart]

http://nepacrossroads.com/fuel-comparison-calculator.php

http://www.forbes.com/sites/tomzeller/2015/05/18/wood-pellet-power-a-climate-threat/

 

[jotul?]

Not to take sides, because I used to burn coal in my OWB at my former home, a lot of it in fact. I also worked for US Steel as a bricklayer performing hot repairs on coke ovens, and I dare say that I have had more coal emissions safety training than probably anyone else posting here. Coal does not produce safe emissions for humans, animals, or the environment. No way, no how, no matter what chart or scale you use. My whole job was to repair coke oven walls to prevent coal emissions from escaping into the atmosphere because they are harmful to the environment in the extreme. Please don't try to point out the difference between anthracite and bituminous coal either, because we coked both depending on the customers order requirements for the coke's final use. If you've found an economically viable solution for your heating needs, that's great, but it is simply not a cleaner alternative.

 

[AmbDrvr253]

also coal does not heat up the chimney and will NEVER cause a chimney fire. its impossible to have a chimney fire burning coal.

Not true. As I firefighter, in central PA, I can tell you that statement is WRONG!

 

[bholler]

Not true. As I firefighter, in central PA, I can tell you that statement is WRONG!

Wow i missed that one and that is terribly inaccurate. i will agree that a fire is much less likely but far from impossible

 

[AmbDrvr253]

You never said that at all you said it burnt as clean as ng. Which it does not at all. Have you ever been to a coal town in northern pa where almost everyone is still burning anthracite coal for heat? If not go find a coal town and take a deep breath then tell me how clean it burns.

I will say this, I live in a coal town, and I would rather the coal "smell" than the overpowering smell of burning improperly seasoned wood!

 

[bholler]

I will say this, I live in a coal town, and I would rather the coal "smell" than the overpowering smell of burning improperly seasoned wood!

I don't disagree with that but he was comparing it to ng. And wood that is being burned properly isnt bad to be around at all.

 

[Pellet-King]

Holy hell, how does someone burn 7 tons in a 1500sq house? I have a 1800 single floor house that I consider poorly insulated and I only burn 4-5 tons a season.

Used to burn 2 tons every yr in a small cape that had electric heat, it was heavily insulated but had single pane windows, if the windows were upgraded probably burn less

 

[jotul?]

Drive through scenic Clairton PA if you love the coal smell. Or you could wear your PPE like I did.

 

[bholler]

Drive through scenic Clairton PA if you love the coal smell. Or you could wear your PPE like I did.

Yeah not a fan of the smell at all. I work in the Shamokin area allot and there are times it gets pretty bad but i have also been in valleys with an air inversion and several owb going and that is as bad if not worse

 

[jotul?]

I know we're off topic at this point, but one of the things I was happy to be away from as far as the OWB was concerned was the coal smell. I had a Cozeburn 250 with under fire air, and it wouldn't burn wood alone worth a spit. Every time the blower came on it would eliminate the coal bed if there was no coal under the wood to stop the air flow. So I was always stuck with coal.

 

[ad356]

please explain to me HOW a chimney fire is possible with coal fired appliance? flu temperatures normally run at less then 200 degrees. exhaust gases are drawn through the bottom of the stove underneath the fire grate, no flames or sparks WILL ever touch the black stove pipe or chimney. also there is absolutely NO creosote, creosote is a byproduct of burning wood. so with no creosote, not enough heat for combustion of the combustion by-products and no sparks i dont see how it is possible.

however i do no wish to insult a firefighter by calling anyone a lier. i have allot of respect for anyone willing to run into a burning building. the only thing that i can think of would be someone using a dual fuel unit. some models such as hitzer can burn both wood and coal. perhaps it was firing wood at the time.

at any rate chimney fires are created by buildup of creosote, coal makes ZERO creosote. coal combustion by-products are known as fly ash. fly ash does not burn