Ideal Steel Webpage
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I put more faith in woodstocks internal testing over the last couple of years of their PH and now the ideal (somewhat similar). Not to say the beta tests are worthless, but packing stoves perfectly with seasoned oak blocks is not exactly real-world use (for 95% plus of users)....
I think they've been working on and burning these prototypes for approx 5 years - and with decades of wood burning experience and a full lab setup (to say nothing of outside consultants and designers with more decades), the final product should work well. But, as BG says, only by looking back after a number of years of hundreds or thousands of stoves being out there...can you then speak to certain issues. So far, the field testing on many woodstoves has come up with numbers WAY different than lab testing. In fact, lab testing comes up with numbers far away from lab testing! Take the same stove and send it to 5 EPA test labs and you could get results that differ by 100%, 200% or more. Take the same stove and put it in real homes and bash it for a couple years and who knows?
My hope is that hybrid designs level out the differences by making certain that some emissions reduction happens even when cats clog, leak or degrade. Common sense would seem to point in that direction - but, again, until the regular public (meaning those who usually have less knowledge than those here) get ahold of these things, we won't know much. Hopefully the EPA will listen to the cries expressed to them recently about the real world differing from the lab.
Woodstock, to their credit, is following the old vintners maxim of not releasing a stove before it's time.
I wonder if we can get a few with the Hearth.com logo burned into them?
I think they've been working on and burning these prototypes for approx 5 years - and with decades of wood burning experience and a full lab setup (to say nothing of outside consultants and designers with more decades), the final product should work well. But, as BG says, only by looking back after a number of years of hundreds or thousands of stoves being out there...can you then speak to certain issues. So far, the field testing on many woodstoves has come up with numbers WAY different than lab testing. In fact, lab testing comes up with numbers far away from lab testing! Take the same stove and send it to 5 EPA test labs and you could get results that differ by 100%, 200% or more. Take the same stove and put it in real homes and bash it for a couple years and who knows?
My hope is that hybrid designs level out the differences by making certain that some emissions reduction happens even when cats clog, leak or degrade. Common sense would seem to point in that direction - but, again, until the regular public (meaning those who usually have less knowledge than those here) get ahold of these things, we won't know much. Hopefully the EPA will listen to the cries expressed to them recently about the real world differing from the lab.
Woodstock, to their credit, is following the old vintners maxim of not releasing a stove before it's time.
I wonder if we can get a few with the Hearth.com logo burned into them?
Am I understanding this blog to mean: slower wood consumption equates to lower BTU /hr ratings?
isipwater
Feeling the Heat
Yes, I agree that the 82% efficiency with the "IS" is over-the-top marketing hype that has already been accomplished or exceeded by other stoves. With that being said, I am sold on everything about the Wittus Twinfire except for the price. Do you think the Wittus price will ever come down?
Here you go.......
https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/articles/burn_time_calculator
Set the variables and - yes - exactly!
The Xeoos Twin-fire is hand built in Germany then shipped to the States and sold by a reseller, I am pretty sure that puts a dent in it being competitively priced.
I know I have a BK, BK's are in a class by themselves, I was thinking Webby did it with a King, I forgot he's now burning an Ashford. My #1 choice for a stove would be a King but I can't with my set up.
num1hitter
Member
$1795 base price, up to $2,200 with "The Works"
http://blog.woodstove.com/2014/03/beta-testing-and-pre-production-prices.html
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Flamestead
Feeling the Heat
I agree that Woodstock likely learns a lot from burning their stoves themselves. They had Ideal Steels in employees' homes before outside beta testers got a chance, and I know at least one was burning less than ideal wood, so they are getting a wide range of experience. The 6"x6" oak was a demo you don't usually get to see - I don't expect to ever burn any of that, but found it very interesting and informative.
Our beta testing is probably not representative of many members' environments. I have not done my woodpile math, but guesstimate we are nearly at 4 cord of 2-yr, 20" hardwood through the Ideal Steel (after close to 2 through the PH earlier in the Fall), and we are using it as our primary heat in a chilly winter (double-digits below zero multiple nights this week). As the cold drags on into March, it has become my goal to keep that stovetop as close to 650-675 as I can. Having burned both the PH and Ideal Steel, it is easy to see both the good carried forward as well as additional improvements added to the Ideal Steel. I think the Ideal Steel will really distinguish itself from the PH in the shoulder season, but we've had precious little of that to work with.
-2 degrees and falling. Stovetop 625, flue probe at 400.
Our beta testing is probably not representative of many members' environments. I have not done my woodpile math, but guesstimate we are nearly at 4 cord of 2-yr, 20" hardwood through the Ideal Steel (after close to 2 through the PH earlier in the Fall), and we are using it as our primary heat in a chilly winter (double-digits below zero multiple nights this week). As the cold drags on into March, it has become my goal to keep that stovetop as close to 650-675 as I can. Having burned both the PH and Ideal Steel, it is easy to see both the good carried forward as well as additional improvements added to the Ideal Steel. I think the Ideal Steel will really distinguish itself from the PH in the shoulder season, but we've had precious little of that to work with.
-2 degrees and falling. Stovetop 625, flue probe at 400.
Based on all the good I've read, needing a larger better quality stove, I placed a pre- order for the IS this morning! Also getting one for my parents house since they need a new wood stove. I'm really happy with the apparent build quality and the intro price is hard to pass up. Not like it's gonna get cheaper.
How much?Anyone in the Salt Lake City area want to buy a lightly used NC-30?
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