Ice Storm, Albany, NY

[Hanko]

Be Green your giving advise to some people that shouldnt play with meters, and generally dont have a clue on the safe way to temp in a generator. You know enough to pull a meter, and i would say alot of folks on this site also could do it, but I would be very cautious trying to explain how to temp in a generator. My lawyer advised me any info or advise I give out say over the phone or on the internet I can be held responsible for.

 

[Hanko]

Does anybody know if it is actually in the NEC that an interlock or some other such device is required in order to operate a standby generator? I haven't been able to find it anywhere in the code. I did just finish putting in my standby generator and know before I can ever use it I have to disconnect from the grid but am not sure if a protective device is actually required.

yes it is, I will find the NEC code article and get back to you

 

[Hanko]

Does anybody know if it is actually in the NEC that an interlock or some other such device is required in order to operate a standby generator? I haven't been able to find it anywhere in the code. I did just finish putting in my standby generator and know before I can ever use it I have to disconnect from the grid but am not sure if a protective device is actually required.

if u pump gen into the grid, a linesman may be at risk= shut off your main breaker.

Ever seen one pole on a main stay closed when put in the off posistion? I have

 

[carbon neutral]

Does anybody know if it is actually in the NEC that an interlock or some other such device is required in order to operate a standby generator? I haven't been able to find it anywhere in the code. I did just finish putting in my standby generator and know before I can ever use it I have to disconnect from the grid but am not sure if a protective device is actually required.

if u pump gen into the grid, a linesman may be at risk= shut off your main breaker.

Ever seen one pole on a main stay closed when put in the off posistion? I have

I have found UL listed interlocks that claim to meet all NEC requirements and it is certainly worth the money to go that little extra for the sake of safety. They aren't cheap for what you are getting. They consist of some sheet metal and sheet metal screws for which they charge $150. I am sure most of that money is going toward the UL certification and product liability. Imagine how nice and how much better all of our lives would be if we could get rid the lawyers. Anyway I would appreciate it if you could find it in the code for me Hanko, I have been having discussions with my father about this and neither of us could find it.

 

[fossil]

When Dominion Virginia Power was my provider, they had available for sale to customers who wanted them an interlock device that, I believe, took the place of the conventional meter. I didn't have one, but it seems to me it would sense when the grid lost power and open up, then indicate that it was safe to plug in a generator on the house side to provide power. If it sensed power on the house side, it would prevent the grid side from reclosing regardless of the presence or absence of grid power. I don't know if it automatically reconnected when the house side was dead and the grid was back up, or had to be manually reset. Rick

 

[carbon neutral]

I found it the part of the NEC which deals with stand-by power. It is article 702 and says some sort of approved interlock or transfer switch is required for a generator to power the main panel or in a place that could potentailly back feed into the grid. Sorry to divert this thread so much, hope you guys in Albany are making out ok. Personally I would like to have a power outage they can be real romantic. Nothing like getting your drink on with your significant other in front of a warm fire

 

[pen]

I found it the part of the NEC which deals with stand-by power. It is article 702 and says some sort of approved interlock or transfer switch is required for a generator to power the main panel or in a place that could potentailly back feed into the grid. Sorry to divert this thread so much, hope you guys in Albany are making out ok. Personally I would like to have a power outage they can be real romantic. Nothing like getting your drink on with your significant other in front of a warm fire

Hmm, I think I need the power to go out at my house.

We got the ice storm here in NE Pa as well, but my power has held on to this point.

This is the 2nd day for me not going to work.

pen

 

[fossil]

...This is the 2nd day for me not going to work...

I'm approaching my 3,000th day of not going to work. I highly recommend retirement! (sorry, had to :red: ) Rick

 

[InTheRockies]

I hope the storm that will be developing here tonight peters out before it gets too far east. They're definitely calling for it to roll into the mid-west. Snow won't necessarily be the killer with this storm; it'll be the arctic temps accompanied by strong winds. (Our high here on Saturday in the Rockies of nw Montana will be 5 F with wind gusts of up to 100-145 mph. The weather forecasters are stressing that people should not venture out since the wind chills will be deadly and visibility zero--we'll have white out conditions. I'm hoping we don't lose electricity--or roofs for that matter. There are a few people around here who don't have wood heat as a backup. Plus, I wouldn't look forward to trying to keep the pipes from freezing without the assistance of my forced air propane system, at least overnight when our temps will plunge down to -17 F.)

 

[begreen]

Be Green your giving advise to some people that shouldnt play with meters, and generally dont have a clue on the safe way to temp in a generator. You know enough to pull a meter, and i would say alot of folks on this site also could do it, but I would be very cautious trying to explain how to temp in a generator. My lawyer advised me any info or advise I give out say over the phone or on the internet I can be held responsible for.

Although I mentioned how we are set up for generator use, I am not advising anyone how to wire up temp power. I am advising people that this is dangerous and that they need to be aware of the risk to linesmen.

 

[fossil]

...Plus, I wouldn't look forward to trying to keep the pipes from freezing without the assistance of my forced air propane system, at least overnight when our temps will plunge down to -17 F.)

Had a copper pipe burst in an exterior corner of the crawl space last year during sub-zero temps. NOT FUN! Do whatever you have to do to keep that from happening. Rick

 

[velvetfoot]

The utility's computer lady says they have no restoration estimate yet.
A friend of ours on a more main road got told Saturday night.
Ran the genny for about 45 minutes.
Took showers, filled tubs (hopefully the one holds this time ), flushed toilets, charged laptop (oops, must keep this short), ran furnace, washed dishes, etc.
Brought the genny back in. Geez, it's getting dark already.
Time to think about lighting (we have a couple of decorative oil lamps and a more utilitarian model.

My interlock was one of those plate models by SquareD.

We're sacrificing the food, taking a chance on leaving it outside. We don't have much stuff.

Later.

 

[Hanko]

It is article 702-6. Proper term is a transfer switch, which will physically disconect all ungrounded service conductors from the panel. A main disconect is not included in this. I personally have a fused main that sub feeds my panel. I connect my generator into that.

 

[Hanko]

The utility's computer lady says they have no restoration estimate yet.
A friend of ours on a more main road got told Saturday night.
Ran the genny for about 45 minutes.
Took showers, filled tubs (hopefully the one holds this time ), flushed toilets, charged laptop (oops, must keep this short), ran furnace, washed dishes, etc.
Brought the genny back in. Geez, it's getting dark already.
Time to think about lighting (we have a couple of decorative oil lamps and a more utilitarian model.

My interlock was one of those plate models by SquareD.

We're sacrificing the food, taking a chance on leaving it outside. We don't have much stuff.

Later.

Alot of the panel mfg's are comming out with what your describing, they work good

 

[DAKSY]

Got the insert, the fireplace & the free-stander keepin the homestead (somewhat) warm...
Glad the LP guy delivered yesterday...
Last I heard upwards of 200k w/o power...some may not get up and runnin til the middle of next week...
Welcome to wintertime in the Northeast!

 

[Max Headroom]

I woke up to what sounded like artillery fire this morning. It was the sound of large branches and whole trees coming down. Fired up the generator at 6am and it's still cranking. Looks like the power could be out for quite some time (maybe days). Hundreds of thousand of customer without power in NH and central MA. My neighborhood has become a scrounger's paradise. I'll get at least a half cord of maple and hickory from two of the trees down on my property. Tree tops are all over the place. A lot of people thought it was stupid to "waste" money on a generator. Not today!

 

[xrayman]

good luck guys and gals we went through the same thing in febuary of 06 14 days running the generator, I ended up log chaining mine to the power pole and made a lean too thing for it we had lots of people stealing them.

 

[velvetfoot]

Utility says Monday at 3:00.
I am pleasantly surprised with the performance of the 2700i.
12*F now. Supposed to get warmer tomorrow.
Today was first time I went out.
Still some roads closed, but I've seen worse.
What's nice is that where I am you don't have to go far to find a place with power.

 

[drizler]

Sounds just ducky down Albany way. Another thing to remember it to take care of those Linemen. It's like feeding the birds. They are out there freezing their buns off most likely working 16+ hours a day in crummy conditions. They really appreciate any hot coffee and such they can get while whey are working out in the cold. Lots of those guys will be brought in from down South likely and don't take to the cold as well as we do. Those folks are like the Maytag repairman, you almost never need them but when it all goes to hell you tend to develop a great appreciation for their presence.

 

[fossil]

That's a really good thought, Driz. When a region has a serious problem, it's typical for crews to be dispatched from many miles around to help. Lots of these folks are far from home, working in miserable and often hazardous conditions to restore power to customers they don't know and will likely never meet. Any opportunity that should arise to express gratitude for their efforts oughta be jumped on, IMO, whether it be a cup of hot coffee, a box of donuts, or just a wave, smile and "Thanks!". Rick

 

[velvetfoot]

You guys are absolutely right on the line and tree crews.
On our drove out tonight for dinner (to a place that never lost its power) we passed some volunteer firemen delivering dry ice and bottle water to homes.
We thought that was nice too.

 

[Dill]

What a long couple of days. I got woken up at 3am sunday morning to the crap snap boom of tree's exploding. Just had a couple of tops bounce off the house nothing huge. I haven't been out in the woods yet, but I did have half a sugar maple land on the wood pile, if only it would split itself. I couldn't get back to sleep.
At 5am the police chief stopped by with light flashing, knocked on the door and told me to get my saw gear. The cell service has been odd, we haven't had good nexteling this whole time. I'm a selectman in town and the deputy emergency cordinator. He and I drove the town and cut until I shut down the saw crews at 3pm, when there was just too much ice coming down from trees and they where starting to spring badly with the warmth. At that point I had run about 2 gallons through the saws, which doesn't seem like a lot when your pile cutting but jumping out of car, cutting limbs, dragging and repeating 50 ft down the road is the long morning.
Today I ran a crew down a 2 mile access road so that we could get a nation guard genset to the water district pumps, since our generator for that died friday also. Along with the police generator and the town hall one. Moral of the story run your darn generators before the storm.
Anyway we got power back at 10:30 tonight and I'm just waiting for the hot water to get hot.

OH and the problem with doing this stuff in the cop cars is people don't give cops goodies like they do to the firemen. We did get an entire delivery of dunkin donuts stuff, since the local franchise hasn't had power either.

Man I love the stove, the house was just as warm as if we had power.

 

[cmcramer]

Ayuh,....

150,000 homes without power at last report,... P/C Crews are leaving Watertown, headed for the capital district...

There's going to be Alot of Free Wood by tomorrow or Sunday,...

how doyou guys run a extention cord into the house if it’s not hard wired?

Ayuh,... 1st thing,... Go to your power Entrance/ Main breakerbox,+ Pull/ shut Off the Main Breaker....
Turning Off any High power draws is also a good idea,.. Water Heaters, Electric Heat, Dryers, Electric Stoves, Etc...

Then position your Genny is a safe area,.. run an extension cord from the Genny to Any outlet in your system, plug it in...
Of course, to do this you need an extension cord with Male Plugs on both ends...

I Repeat,... To be Safe,+ not be hurting the poor guys trying to Fix your power,....Your Genny can,+ will backfeed the system,+ can Kill P/C workers...
Pull, or turn Off the Main Power Entrance to your home....

Good Luck to all of you who are being affected...

Six days no power in Ice Storm of 2003 here in rural Rochester, NY area. I follow the same process for hooking up my generator as noted above, except I use 2 12/2 male-male extention cords plugged into 2 different outlets, so that all my circuits are powered. Works great. I also run my generator each summer 'till it gets hot, use Stabilizer in the gas, and have extra gas on hand at all times.

Mine sits out in the weather, and have only had it 'blink' a couple times. But a temporary shelter/lean-to is a good idea!

 

[begreen]

What a long couple of days. I got woken up at 3am sunday morning to the crap snap boom of tree's exploding. Just had a couple of tops bounce off the house nothing huge. I haven't been out in the woods yet, but I did have half a sugar maple land on the wood pile, if only it would split itself. I couldn't get back to sleep.
At 5am the police chief stopped by with light flashing, knocked on the door and told me to get my saw gear. The cell service has been odd, we haven't had good nexteling this whole time. I'm a selectman in town and the deputy emergency cordinator. He and I drove the town and cut until I shut down the saw crews at 3pm, when there was just too much ice coming down from trees and they where starting to spring badly with the warmth. At that point I had run about 2 gallons through the saws, which doesn't seem like a lot when your pile cutting but jumping out of car, cutting limbs, dragging and repeating 50 ft down the road is the long morning.
Today I ran a crew down a 2 mile access road so that we could get a nation guard genset to the water district pumps, since our generator for that died friday also. Along with the police generator and the town hall one. Moral of the story run your darn generators before the storm.
Anyway we got power back at 10:30 tonight and I'm just waiting for the hot water to get hot.

OH and the problem with doing this stuff in the cop cars is people don't give cops goodies like they do to the firemen. We did get an entire delivery of dunkin donuts stuff, since the local franchise hasn't had power either.

Man I love the stove, the house was just as warm as if we had power.

Good to hear power is coming back on line Dill. The damage an ice storm can do is humbling. That's funny about the police car. Coffee and cocoa for the firemen and tree cutters but only donuts for the police.

Hard to beat the smug feeling when the power's out and the house is toasty warm. Although we haven't lost power, since the temps started seriously dropping my wife has gone from "it's too hot in here" (translation, that stove's too big), to "thank goodness we have a good heater, we're going to go through a lot of wood this week."

 

[velvetfoot]

Now the estimate is 9:00 PM Monday, but I'll believe it when I see it.
Actually I've seen worse.