I got my new to me 044 out today...

[ScotO]

Something ain't right if you can stall that machine with a 20" bar on it. Just say'in.

probably the gas. Find someone local who sells AvGas, tune the saw and stand the hell back!! I can guarantee that pump gas kills the potential in these power saws.

 

[StihlHead]

Eeeee.... AvGas has toxic lead in it. Not good to run that stuff in a saw where you are near the exhaust. You will inhale it. Stihl saws are designed to run on crappy American mid-grade unleaded gas. Best to use super gas that does not have any ethanol blended in if you can. Add gas stabilizer as soon as you buy the gas to keep the gas good for a year, keep the octane high and keep any ethanol in there from absorbing water and phase separating. I swear by that stuff. Running old tired low octane gas in a 2-stroke saw is really bad for them. If the gas is iffy, dump it out! Also use good premix synthetic air cooled oil; I recommend 100% synthetic JASO rated FC or FD oil, like Stihl, Echo, or a motorcycle oil (I use Elf myself). Avoid dyno oil and dyno-synthetic blends. Running 100% synthetic over dyno oil will likely increase your revs, so retune the saw if you are making the switch. Also do not run your saw with TCW rated marine 2-stroke premix oil, or "all purpose" non-rated 2-stroke oils. That stuff will gunk up air cooled 2-stroke engines. Read the labels!

Also if you are running an 044/MS 440 saw with a 20 inch bar you can swap the 7 pin rim drive with an 8 pin rim. A 20 inch loop on that saw should have torque to spare to pull the chain, so you can increase the chain speed and get cutting done faster w/o bogging it down. The one drawback of my 044 is the vibration, and faster cutting is better on my joints, lowers fatigue and helps avoid vibration exposure conditions like white finger.

 

[ScotO]

Eeeee.... AvGas has toxic lead in it. Not good to run that stuff in a saw where you are near the exhaust. You will inhale it. Stihl saws are designed to run on crappy American mid-grade unleaded gas. Best to use super gas that does not have any ethanol blended in if you can. Add gas stabilizer as soon as you buy the gas to keep the gas good for a year, keep the octane high and keep any ethanol in there from absorbing water and phase separating. I swear by that stuff. Running old tired low octane gas in a 2-stroke saw is really bad for them. If the gas is iffy, dump it out! Also use good premix synthetic air cooled oil; I recommend 100% synthetic JASO rated FC or FD oil, like Stihl, Echo, or a motorcycle oil (I use Elf myself). Avoid dyno oil and dyno-synthetic blends. Running 100% synthetic over dyno oil will likely increase your revs, so retune the saw if you are making the switch. Also do not run your saw with TCW rated marine 2-stroke premix oil, or "all purpose" non-rated 2-stroke oils. That stuff will gunk up air cooled 2-stroke engines. Read the labels!

Also if you are running an 044/MS 440 saw with a 20 inch bar you can swap the 7 pin rim drive with an 8 pin rim. A 20 inch loop on that saw should have torque to spare to pull the chain, so you can increase the chain speed and get cutting done faster w/o bogging it down. The one drawback of my 044 is the vibration, and faster cutting is better on my joints, lowers fatigue and helps avoid vibration exposure conditions like white finger.

I've been running TCW3 for over a decade in my saws (and I am still running those same saws sometimes DAILY), that is what the oil is designed for. As for lead in AvGas, there is mercury in tuna fish, all kinds of chemicals in our drinking water, steroids and antibiotics in the beef we eat, etc, etc......I'm not worried about a little lead in my gas (BTW I was told by my local Stihl dealer who is also a certified pilot that there is NO LEAD in AvGas anymore). I believe synthetic oil (which if I am not mistaken is fortified with Teflon, another poison) is harder on OPE esp. when used in conjunction with ethanol 'enriched' gasoline, I've seen motors that were ran on that combo continously and the piston/cylinder were SMOKED in them. I guess there are wive's tales on both sides of the argument, but it is what it is......I'll stick to what has worked for me for a long long time and keep doing it until the stuff blows up!

 

[StihlHead]

The 100 octane AvGas that they sell here here at least still has lead in it. If you want to inhale TEL... go for it.

Sorry, but TCW3 oil is NOT designed or intended for running in higher temperature air cooled 2-stroke engines, it is designed for cooler running marine and water cooled 2-stroke engines. Look online, there are many threads on this subject. It basically comes down to the difference in the detergents used in them. The two types of detergents commonly used in 2-stoke oil are ashless and low ash. The ashless detergents found in TCW3 oil are used in low temperature marine and water cooled engine applications where the ring land temperature is held below 300 deg F. These detergents work well in engines where lots of cooling is available. TCW3/ashless oil will simply not protect an air cooled engine requiring API-TC/low ash type oil. Most chainsaw manufactures require that you use oil that is API approved to keep the saw under warantee, and not TCW approved oils.

What you should be using in your chainsaws are oils that have low ash type detergents. They are used in most API-TC, JASO FC/FD and ISO GC certified 2-stroke oils. These oils are designed for air-cooled engines that operate under more severe load/temperature conditions (such as chainsaws and motorcycles). Low ash detergents can keep the deposits to a minimum at ring land temperatures as high as 400 deg F. Ash type detergents depend on the higher combustion temperatures to keep the resulting ash swept out. Using a low ash API-TC oil in an engine designed for an ashless type TCW3 oil is likely to result in fouled plugs and gummy combustion chambers.

As for 100% synthetics vs. dyno oil, compare any high hour/use 2-stroke engine running synthetics vs dyno oil and you will see an obvious difference. Synthetics burn cleaner, produce far less smoke, will run at higher extremes and result in less wear and leave far fewer deposits in the engine and muffler.

 

[ScotO]

The 100 octane AvGas that they sell here here at least still has lead in it. If you want to inhale TEL... go for it.

Sorry, but TCW3 oil is NOT designed or intended for running in higher temperature air cooled 2-stroke engines, it is designed for cooler running marine and water cooled 2-stroke engines. Look online, there are many threads on this subject. It basically comes down to the difference in the detergents used in them. The two types of detergents commonly used in 2-stoke oil are ashless and low ash. The ashless detergents found in TCW3 oil are used in low temperature marine and water cooled engine applications where the ring land temperature is held below 300 deg F. These detergents work well in engines where lots of cooling is available. TCW3/ashless oil will simply not protect an air cooled engine requiring API-TC/low ash type oil. Most chainsaw manufactures require that you use oil that is API approved to keep the saw under warantee, and not TCW approved oils.

What you should be using in your chainsaws are oils that have low ash type detergents. They are used in most API-TC, JASO FC/FD and ISO GC certified 2-stroke oils. These oils are designed for air-cooled engines that operate under more severe load/temperature conditions (such as chainsaws and motorcycles). Low ash detergents can keep the deposits to a minimum at ring land temperatures as high as 400 deg F. Ash type detergents depend on the higher combustion temperatures to keep the resulting ash swept out. Using a low ash API-TC oil in an engine designed for an ashless type TCW3 oil is likely to result in fouled plugs and gummy combustion chambers.

As for 100% synthetics vs. dyno oil, compare any high hour/use 2-stroke engine running synthetics vs dyno oil and you will see an obvious difference. Synthetics burn cleaner, produce far less smoke, will run at higher extremes and result in less wear and leave far fewer deposits in the engine and muffler.

Not saying you are wrong, but I have two Stihl 041AV Supers and two 015's that I have been running myself for well over a decade, doing a TON of tree work on the side, and never ever had a fouled plug from the oil I run in them. I run my mix a little rich (around 35-40:1) because of the junk ethanol in the gas. They are all 30 to 40 year old saws, and I've only rebuilt them due to seals/electrical problems, the cylinders/pistons were fine in them (and they were well-used machines). I have seen several blown up modern saws in the past year that were using SYNTHETIC mix, I just don't trust running that stuff with pump gas, esp. at the 50:1 that saw manufacturers recommend. AvGas, that would be fine with the synthetic, lets keep in mind that the alcohol in E10 does NOT allow the oil to suspend in the gas as would AvGas. Wait until the only choice for you to use is E15. That stuff will ruin your chainsaw and other two cycle engines, mark my word. Anyway, thanks for the tutorial on oils. I'll stick to what works for me, for now.

 

[DexterDay]

Back to the matter at hand......

An 044 should scream with a 20". My 460 (Dual Port Muffler, Richened, Big Dogs, and a 20", 25", and 32" (25" in pic) runs like a rabid dog with a 25" Bar. Very violent. Digs its Dogs deep in the wood. Only have 4 tanks ran through it. Just got a load of Logs. So its gonna have some run serious run time soon.....

An 044/440/441/046/460 is a Saw that is hard to beat on the weight to power scale. Bad-A$$ Saws.....

Looked long and hard at the 441 w/ new air filtration (similar to Husqvarnas).. But the 460 won my heart

 

[StihlHead]

The 441 never took off for Stihl. Most loggers around here just bought 460s instead. They prefered the 440 for the lighter weight and slimmer deign as compared to the 441 or the 460. My 460 was just not as easy to use as the 044, it was heavier, and it has quite a lot more vibration. I did grin a lot when I used that 460 falling some large diameter trees with a 32 inch bar though. More power available for a longer bar. With a DP muffler that saw is a monster (actually the 440, 460 and 660 all run way better with a DP muffler).

Last year Stihl got around the US smog laws somehow and started selling 440s again. I do not know for how long they will be available. The one thing I liked about the 441 was the low vibration. It was a smooth running saw. But it was bulky, and as one friend said, it was like cutting with a watermelon. The early model 441 that I ran I likened it to cutting with an old spring style rocking horse. It was too loose. Stihl has since stiffened the spring system in those saws. The air filtrations is/was a non-issue for me, as I never have had any real issues with caked up air filters using Stihl chain saws. I pop the covers and give them an air blast after using them, and thats it. Husky made a big deal about it and Stihl has since upgraded their newer saws with centrifugal fans to cut down on sawdust getting to the air filters. I have that air system on my 211, but I do not notice any real difference between the air filter on that saw and the 'old' style air filter on the 361.

 

[StihlHead]

Not saying you are wrong, but I have two Stihl 041AV Supers and two 015's that I have been running myself for well over a decade, doing a TON of tree work on the side, and never ever had a fouled plug from the oil I run in them. I run my mix a little rich (around 35-40:1) because of the junk ethanol in the gas. They are all 30 to 40 year old saws, and I've only rebuilt them due to seals/electrical problems, the cylinders/pistons were fine in them (and they were well-used machines). I have seen several blown up modern saws in the past year that were using SYNTHETIC mix, I just don't trust running that stuff with pump gas, esp. at the 50:1 that saw manufacturers recommend. AvGas, that would be fine with the synthetic, lets keep in mind that the alcohol in E10 does NOT allow the oil to suspend in the gas as would AvGas. Wait until the only choice for you to use is E15. That stuff will ruin your chainsaw and other two cycle engines, mark my word. Anyway, thanks for the tutorial on oils. I'll stick to what works for me, for now.

I never said I was a fan of Ethanol in gas... I am not, and I use stabilizer to keep is from phase separating. But you can get non-ethanol gas in many states that is all gas, and it is lead-free. In Oregon you can buy supreme gas for use in marine and off-road use engines. I use a mix of about 45:1 for a better ring seal and compression, but not for any fault in lubrication in the Elf oil that I use. As for synthetics, I have never seen any failures from using it at 50:1 in the 'newer' saws. Actually I have only seen the opposite in engines run with synthetics (motorcycles and chainsaws, blowers, etc.); clean engines and good bearings. Stihl and Husky design their saws to run on mid-grade US E-10 gasoline and with API-TC/low ash type premix oil at 50:1. If they had big problems with that they would change the designs, and they have not. They have mainly made changes in the engines lately for burning cleaner and smoother for the newer US smog and EU vibration laws.

Specific to the 044/440, this is from my Stihl 440 booklet: "Use only STIHL two-stroke engine oil or equivalent branded two-stroke engine oils that are designed for use only in air cooled two-cycle engines. Do not use BIA or TCW rated (two-stroke water cooled) mix oils or other mix oils that state they are for use in both water cooled and air cooled engines (e.g., outboard motors, snowmobiles, chainsaws, mopeds, etc.)."

It also says: "This engine is certified to operate on unleaded gasoline and two-stroke engine oil at a mix of 50:1. Your two-stroke engine requires a mixture of brand-name gasoline and quality two-stroke air cooled engine oil. Use mid-grade unleaded gasoline with a minimum octane rating of 89 (R+M/2). If the octane rating of the mid-grade gasoline in your area is lower use premium unleaded fuel. Fuel with a lower octane rating may increase engine temperatures. This, in turn, increases the risk of piston seizure and damage to the engine. The chemical composition of the fuel is also important. Some fuel addatives not only detrimentally affect elastomers (carburator diaphrams, oil seals, fuel lines, etc) but magnesium castings and catalytic converters as well. This could cause running problems or even damage to the engine. For this reason Stihl recommends that you use only a nationally recognized name brand unleaded gasoline!"

 

[HittinSteel]

Yeah I know as I own a small engine repair shop and love to work on saws. maybe its because i own bigger saws and just expect to 044 to run better.

and you own a few johnnie red 2171's

 

[taxidermist]

and you own a few johnnie red 2171's

Yeah and they are all Big bore too!!

 

[whatisup02]

I must be lucky. I buy gas and put that gas in my stuff. Never add anything to it and never have a problem. Been doing it that way all my life. Gas sits in a can for up to a year and works just fine. One of my quads has gas in it from last summer and I just started it yesterday. It ran fine with no problems at all. The only thing I have never done yet is buy E85. The van says it will run it but I have never done it yet.

 

[JeffT]

A stock 044 should pull the bejeezus out of a 20" bar

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