I don't get it...

[gzecc]

My sister and brother in law are having a small, brand new house being built down the street from me. Small as in the entire footprint would fit within the area of my kitchen, dining room and bathroom (1865 farm house). Anyways, it is being built to to code (Maine Uniform Building and Energy Code), which requires r50+ in the ceilings, r23+ in the walls, the r value for the basement depends on where the insulation is put.

They've got minisplits for heat/ cooling with electric baseboards for emergency heat, and a 5.5kW grid tied PV array. This is all well and good for 95% of the time.... Buuuuut... that 5% of the time is the dead of winter when the power goes out. My Bil told me that his PV shuts down w/ mains power.

He kinda stared at me blankly when I asked him how's he going to keep my niece warm when power is lost.

That's the part I don't get.... We lose power from time to time in the winter, that's a fact of life. Their house is critically tied to the grid in the name of energy efficiency, mine is not. If they lose power they're screwed, with no backup heat in the house.

If I lose power, life goes on... I've still got heat, cold water, and can cook on either the wood stove or on my gas range. If they lose power.... I've got 3 house guests.

Why are houses being built like this?

I would be surprised if an insurance company will pay off on a frozen pipe water damage claim with this set up.

 

[Bret Chase]

I would be surprised if an insurance company will pay off on a frozen pipe water damage claim with this set up.

I dunno.... every insurance co is different... My insurance carrier was the same of my neighbor's... they paid when the heat tape in the cellar malfunctioned and burnt his house down. Sad too.. that house was the only one on my road older than mine... and built by my family, just like my house.

 

[Bret Chase]

Sounds like you're fine with or without a generator . . . incidentally . . . you didn't miss much back in 1998. We were without power for 14 days -- although I was down at the Fire Academy in Emmitsburg, MD for about half of that time, leaving my wife behind to man the generator.

in the winter, yes... I am fine w/o power..... but if in the summer some asshat cuts off a pole.... (like what happened last summer) I need something powering my freezer.

 

[woodgeek]

Tell them to get a Prius, and a 1000W inverter to run off it. Done.

Probably not your style....might be theirs.

 

[scooby074]

Honda generator and a Generlink (or equivalent anti-backfeed method) to solve the power outage issues.

There is one solar inverter made by SMA that can run when the grid is down to provide emergency daylight power. Problem is that it maxes out at something like 1500W and a single plug. Its more for charging phones and computers as opposed to running heaters.

 

[woodgeek]

For heat they're gonna run the stove and crack a couple windows...and have a battery CO monitor (or two).

 

[Mrs. Krabappel]

When I lived in Florida a large hurricane was in the forecast for at least a week. People were standing in line for emergency water the day after it hit.

Oh Hi guys!

 

[Bret Chase]

Tell them to get a Prius, and a 1000W inverter to run off it. Done.

Probably not your style....might be theirs.

I've actually done that, running an inverter off of our 14 year old suburban (big ass battery, 140A alternator)

 

[Bret Chase]

Honda generator and a Generlink (or equivalent anti-backfeed method) to solve the power outage issues.

There is one solar inverter made by SMA that can run when the grid is down to provide emergency daylight power. Problem is that it maxes out at something like 1500W and a single plug. Its more for charging phones and computers as opposed to running heaters.

Honda generators are terrible... I had a EU1000i that turned itself into a bug fogger... and the EX5000 that melted down, and cost twice what my 10,000watt Miller engine drive welder did.

 

[JTRock]

I am currently in the process of getting solar consultation. Front of the house facing south and no interference. I asked the solar guy why no juice during an outage since I make my own electricity. He gives me standard back feed blah, blah. I say to him thats funny why can't I flip a transfer switch like my genny???? He shrugs.. I know the answer, people like me are bad for the local economy when there is a major storm if I could have my own electricity.

 

[blades]

Any genny if needed for back-up should be set up to run off lp or ng- due to the epa fuel regs for diesel or gas. Other wise when ya need it it won't.

 

[firefighterjake]

Any genny if needed for back-up should be set up to run off lp or ng- due to the epa fuel regs for diesel or gas. Other wise when ya need it it won't.

This has not been an issue for me . . . but I generally use a fuel stabilizer, start it occasionally and buy fresh gas when needed (i.e. a storm is coming) instead of keeping it fully fueled. Has worked for me since 1998.

 

[Bret Chase]

This has not been an issue for me . . . but I generally use a fuel stabilizer, start it occasionally and buy fresh gas when needed (i.e. a storm is coming) instead of keeping it fully fueled. Has worked for me since 1998.

I've not had that issue either... the issue I have had (i.e. my parents) is equipment just being left outside...junked up carbs, squirrels, etc.

the one thing people don't realize is how much more lpg you're going to go through than gas...

 

[firefighterjake]

I've not had that issue either... the issue I have had (i.e. my parents) is equipment just being left outside...junked up carbs, squirrels, etc.

the one thing people don't realize is how much more lpg you're going to go through than gas...

One of my co-workers discovered this . . . ran through an entire tank of LPG hooked to the generator in the home they rent down in Sedgwick in 3 days when they lost power from the storm a few weeks back.

 

[Bret Chase]

One of my co-workers discovered this . . . ran through an entire tank of LPG hooked to the generator in the home they rent down in Sedgwick in 3 days when they lost power from the storm a few weeks back.

yup... In my old job... you take a single model of skyjack scissor lift.... the 3 cyl kubota diesel version.... 8 gals would last 2 weeks, the 4 cyl ford on gas, 5 gal/day, the same ford on LPG.... a 33# forklift tank (7.5 gal) 6 hours... if you were lucky.

 

[peakbagger]

With respect to setting up the solar to run when the grid is down, in order to have full backup requires a large expensive battery bank and additional more expensive components. Figure on doubling the cost of the system. There is one partial option with is something called a SPS (secure power supply) option on one brand of inverters made by Sunny Boy. The inverter powers one dedicated 15 amp receptacle when the sun is shining adequately to generate enough input power. Unfortunately if its cloudy they are out of luck. The SPS doesn't raise the price of the inverter significantly so its almost "free".

The initial cost for battery based hybrid system is significant although 30% is paid by the Fed. What is not factored in are the battery replacements every 10 years. A generator costs a lot less.

 

[scooby074]

Honda generators are terrible... I had a EU1000i that turned itself into a bug fogger... and the EX5000 that melted down, and cost twice what my 10,000watt Miller engine drive welder did.

Ive read your comments on honda generators before.. As I think I said then, you are about the only person I know of that has had issues with Honda gennies.

Our large Eu6500i has been a tank and is over 10 years old.. Starts first crank. Lots of friends have the small inverters too, never an issue, start first time.

Given the shear volume of Honda gensets out there you think there would be horror stories all over the net like there are for the clones and other cheap generators? Yet there isnt.

 

[Ashful]

If they lose power.... I've got 3 house guests.

Why are houses being built like this?

Because they know their BIL will bail them out when power goes off?

 

[Bret Chase]

Ive read your comments on honda generators before.. As I think I said then, you are about the only person I know of that has had issues with Honda gennies.

Our large Eu6500i has been a tank and is over 10 years old.. Starts first crank. Lots of friends have the small inverters too, never an issue, start first time.

Given the shear volume of Honda gensets out there you think there would be horror stories all over the net like there are for the clones and other cheap generators? Yet there isnt.

Both of those generators were bought by my former boss with a honda fetish... dealer serviced to the letter.... The EU1000i doesn't have replaceable valve guides.... so when it goes all bug fogger.... you have to just throw it out and buy a new one... that's according to honda. known failure mode. Before that point, it is a fantastic generator... super quiet... 0.10 gal/hr consumption

maybe we got a lemon EX5000... but my former boss hasn't bought a honda since. I've had a LOT better luck, believe it or not, with the chinese honda clones... the one in my gas compressor runs like a frick'n top.

 

[Bret Chase]

Because they know their BIL will bail them out when power goes off?

probably...

 

[jharkin]

Why are houses being built like this?

Because most people are oblivious to reality and just assume that no matter what the grid will always be there and "they" will always fix it.

For example, my wife has commented more than once that she thinks the fireplace in the living room where the stove is installed would look much better if we just rip out the stove and use it as an open fireplace. I comment that it may look better but then we have no heat if the power goes out.

Her reply? "So what? I'd just go to a hotel"

The rest of my family, and I would be willing to bet probably 90% of Americans, are exactly the same way.

 

[begreen]

Sorry ma'am all our rooms are booked.

 

[jillybeansisme]

@jharkin I work in a hotel -- if your heat is out because the power is out, chances are there are no warm rooms at the Inn even if they do have an emergency back up generator! That generator would be used for more important stuff such as refrigerators and emergency lighting.

@Bret Chase I don't know how much you like your Sis & BIL staying with you most of the winter's power outages, but what about a little "cottage heater" as a Holiday Gift/Housewarming Gift/Welcome to the Neighborhood Gift/Save My Sanity Gift? I'm talking about a one-room cottage heater . . .

 

[Ashful]

Because most people are oblivious to reality and just assume that no matter what the grid will always be there and "they" will always fix it.

I have not yet lived thru an event where I could argue that the woodstove was a necessity. We were without power for most of a week during last year's ice storm, but it was easy enough keeping the oil-fired boiler in the basement going on a small portable generator. The gas station near us was without power for a short period, but got it back quickly, and there were probably close to 50 other gas stations within a 30 minute drive that never lost power.

I like my woodstove, and the fact that it reduces my dependency on oil, but it will take world events larger than any of us have yet experienced to make it an emergency necessity.

 

[begreen]

Try living on an island. The stove becomes much more of a necessity when the few gas stations also are without power, roads are unplowed and blocked and you don't have 4wd.