I am overthinking this--- wood or pellet?

[granJean]

Actually I did consider a wood stove where I would put the pellet stove but that seemed redundant. The kitchen side of the house is the north side so that whole side is icy as no sun comes in all winter. The gas pack is $5000. to be replaced for the 80%. And yes I am concerned about ductwork and what else/who knows.

I looked through the online manuals of theLennox Country and liked them. But theres so few comments I dropped that. I'll see if theres a price incentive. I appreciate the comments about the pellet heat. If pellet is like a furnace then I should start with a wood insert and move on to a furnace in a few years. ( should reverse the order)

 

[Dave A.]

That seems high for an 80%. Might want to look into a high efficiency heat pump, but if there's problems with the ducts then there are the mini splits (ductless). Some threads here about them, but the real high efficiency ones may not be whole house.

Don't want to have steered you wrong about pellet, no experience myself other than in a showroom and from what I've read. You will get some radiant out of them but supposedly not like a wood stove -- they do require the fans both to distribute the heat and exhaust and if you're in an area with frequent power outages that should be a concern, since they won't run without elec as you likely already know.

But a wood stove insert sized properly for your house/climate sounds like a good choice, It certainly would be an upgrade to the fireplace which is a central feature of your home. I'm very happy with mine (once I got the one that was sized right for my house).

If you decide on the insert, then it's just a question of which one. Probably you'll be looking for something in the 2-2.5 cf firebox range. Almost all of the inserts I'm aware of in that size are non-cat (not catalytic) unless you went with a stove -- if a stove could fit in your fireplace -- and most 1950's fireplace openings tend to be smaller, so not likely.

Edit: I think you mentioned considering Enviro in your first message. I looked at the Enviro Boston model and was very impressed with it. If it had a larger fire box, likely would have gotten it but my house is 2500 sf.

 

[Sprinter]

Judging only by the avatar pic, that opening looks pretty small, but maybe it's misleading. It's a nice looking fp and should be used. Anyway, the dealer visit will solve a lot of these questions.

 

[granJean]

yeah I like the looks of the Boston too. Fireplace opening is 3 x 2, seems pretty deep at 30" at the bottom. I got back started on this wood v pellet round after getting a $2475. quote for a 50k Williams 2 sided wall furnace. It would go into the hall, living area and one bedroom/bath, roof vent. This is helping me figure out what I really want. When I start just thinking $ I get to 2-3 space heater for 3 months at less than $200. per month.

 

[begreen]

Actually I did consider a wood stove where I would put the pellet stove but that seemed redundant. The kitchen side of the house is the north side so that whole side is icy as no sun comes in all winter. The gas pack is $5000. to be replaced for the 80%. And yes I am concerned about ductwork and what else/who knows.

I looked through the online manuals of theLennox Country and liked them. But theres so few comments I dropped that. I'll see if theres a price incentive. I appreciate the comments about the pellet heat. If pellet is like a furnace then I should start with a wood insert and move on to a furnace in a few years. ( should reverse the order)

Country stoves are good heaters. They are made close by in Auburn, WA and well built. I don't hesitate to recommend them.

 

[granJean]

Salesman came this morning and since I was expecting a call this week, his promptness exceeded my expectations. He is giving deals on whats in the showroom, says they sell 20 stoves a year evenly split between wood and pellet. Pellet buyers are from the east and wood buyers are from the west.

He said I could get 2 stoves for the cost of redoing my chimney for an insert. Nothing wrong with it for a fireplace but its square. He's seen a couple of them and says its a 2 cavity system. He did at one point say the fireplace was built by hand... He drew a pic for my boss to see. He is going to check with his boss, and took pictures. I get a free chimney sweep if I buy.

So we talked pellets. Quads are more $$ because they have to be special ordered. He has a Heatilator Echo Choice which he will install for $2500. rough estimate. There is a Meridian and Mini in the shop. He says the M55 steel would be less than $3800. installed. The spot I chose for the pellet stove had a window above and that would have to be screwed shut. Well good luck with those steel lintels! So we moved it down the wall just opposite my fireplace. Block wall and cement floor, and its going out the roof. Underplayed roof, no big deal. He said Walmart had the best pellets lst season-of our choices.

So I'm going to meet him in a couple of hours at the showroom so he can show me operations etc. I've got some reading to do. I'm not buying for a while. I want find out more about the Echochoice and I like the looks and concept of the M55. Totally useless here. Jean

 

[Dave A.]

Salesman came this morning and since I was expecting a call this week, his promptness exceeded my expectations. He is giving deals on whats in the showroom,

Maybe I'm too much of a skeptic, but I'd be suspicious that he was so anxious to unload what he has on the floor, so as not to want to wait to call and make an appointment with you.

He said I could get 2 stoves for the cost of redoing my chimney for an insert.

and wonder if wood inserts were a part of his stock would your fireplace be such a problem.
Anyway, I'd want to know what specifically was the difficulty/problem in the install and what the price would be. Sounds like he's blowing a lot of smoke.

He's seen a couple of them and says its a 2 cavity system

I don't know what that means or why/how that makes a liner install a problem. Did he explain that to you? The customer should be made to understand that.

I'd want a second opinion from another dealer or installer and/or a better explanation of the difficulty in the install.

He did at one point say the fireplace was built by hand...

Almost all masonry fireplaces are. Doesn't sound like he's had a lot of experience or that it's been limited to looking at prefab fireplaces.

Edit: Though looking at your avatar photo, the fireplace opening looks very small -- especially height -- less than 24"? That might make an install difficult depending on how high it actually is.

 

[granJean]

It is 26" + from top to bottom but there is 2" slate shelf, so he said they could build up base of fireplace to match. I had thought I could remove or reshape stone shelf . Fireplace is 3' wide and on my reading of measurements it looks like smaller units would easily fit.

I don't know what other dampers look like but this is probably 3" x 10" . If a round pipe is supposed to go from the insert to the top of the chimney I can see how it would have trouble navigating the damper. My last woodburning house had a 1stgen Lopi thats now in Panama with the ex.

And yes workmen have admired my fireplace because all they see are manufactured. But that was back when we were building and town was much larger with all the construction. But salesman did throw me with the fireplace built by hand remark. There may have been a few decades of age difference between us. At 20 stoves a year in sales I would have to think this is a side to their main business.

Another dealer I have spoken with charges $1. a mile adding $200. to the cost. Not a big deal if I go wood but not happening for pellet. Salesman said during the season they can be out in 2-3 days if something breaks. I can get a Kodiak 1200 installed for $2700. He said that would be plenty of heat. Block house, cement floor it could hold the heat for later also, which would just warm the house up all the time, rather than just when a fire is burning. The Heatilator Ecochoice PS50-the big one- is $2800. They're asking $300. more for the pellet pipe straight up.

So I got some more info and basically what the local dealer will do, Thanks Jean

 

[begreen]

For pellet stove explorations and questions it would be much better to start a new thread in the pellet forum.

 

[Dave A.]

The damper almost always has to be removed (sometimes the damper frame too) and sometimes additional bricks knocked out in smoke shelf area (likely in yours with only 3x10 damper to fit a 6" liner through cleanly or the liner can be bent/reshaped -- "ovalized" to fit through). Not usually a big deal for an installer who does these regularly. Damper openings are almost always narrower like that. Mine was about 5" with the damper in place but when I cut out the damper there was about 7" or so-- enough for the od 6.25" liner to get through without too much problem.

With Enviro thought you were considering the 1700 which I believe is about 2.5 cf firebox -- nice square firebox where you can load the wood front to back (NS). NS loading in a stove/insert is usually much more desirable as you don't have the problem of logs/splits rolling forward and falling against the glass/door and out onto floor/hearth when you open the door. Hated that about my Century insert.
Plus you usually can fill it better--pack the wood in for a long burn--when the wood goes in NS or EW -- more flexibility.

Another problem with the smaller inserts is that you're going to have much shorter burn times-- you do have cold nights there and since you're relying on this for all your heat you likely don't want to have to get up in the middle of the night to reload. You can always build small fires in a larger insert when you don't need it's capacity, but a too small insert/stove is going to keep you very busy and unhappy when it's coldest and you just can't get the place warm. But it depends on what your comfort level is too. If you don't mind colder room temps and hate it when it gets into the mid 70's or warmer in the stove room, you might be better off with something smaller and save a few $.

But if you like it warm, rather than going with something too small in a wood stove you might be better off with pellet -- at least you get even temps and long burn times for overnight where it's putting out steady even heat and they can be operated with a thermostat.

You should be putting the pellet questions into your thread on the pellet forum to get some feedback there.

Good luck and keep us posted on your progress.

 

[Sprinter]

Jean, do mind the house cooling off some over night and then rebuilding a fire in the morning? Like DaveA said above, that's probably what you will have with a wood insert, especially with a small one. That's no big deal to many, like us, but if you want the house to stay warm all night, then a pellet stove with a thermostat would be better for that reason. But if that's not a factor, then I'm still in the wood camp if at all possible physically.

 

[Dave A.]

do [you] mind the house cooling off some over night and then rebuilding a fire in the morning? ... That's no big deal to many, like us

Plus many have central heat on a thermostat set at the threshold. So if it cools down too much overnight, not going to wake to a cool/cold house -- central heat might kick on for a brief period to warm things back up. That made living with my too small Century not all that bad. But like Sprinter said you've got to ask yourself how important that it is to you.

 

[granJean]

So help me determine what size of wood stove I actually need. Dealer says Kodiak 1200 will be plenty. 1600 sqft block ranch, there is some insulation on the north side. Lots of single pane windows on the south side which lets sun in the winter heat the concrete floors. Boy I have to be home when the sun is setting to pull the several layers of floor to ceiling blinds and drapes or the days heat will be gone fast. We had a bad storm in December, temp down to 10, library was closed for 3 months as the pipes burst. The coldest my house got all winter was 53. It normally got up to 63 by the end of the day. I stopped using my fireplace after the first storm as I figured out house was colder when I used it. I must have ventured away from the fireplace!

I'm thinking with a wood stove I can have a fire in the evening, when I go to bed put on some hardwood, start a small fire in the morning. Warming the house at night is probably a good idea. I'll be at the other end of the house and it will be much warmer than 53 when I get up! I'm not opposed to starting a new fire everyday, although I'd rather not. I don't want to get the house more than 75 or so. I think the house will do a good job of holding the heat. The only thing I don't like about wood burning is black widows.

I wanted to use the fireplace but this dealer didn't give me a quote on the narrow damper. If hes not interested in installing the insert I don't want him to do it. He had given me a rough quote of $3700. for the midsize Kodiak insert but the narrow damper changed that. The Kodiak 1200 is $2700. installed.

Apparently they only want to sell what they have in stock. Lennox has to be special ordered.

So right now I'll wondering if I should just put the gas pack-gas heat,electric ac on the roof and save my floor space. Or I could get a wall furnace for the same price as the Kodiak-ick.

I may take some pics, measure my damper and check with the dealers in the forest towns. It will give me a reason to get out of the heat and get some hardwood.

 

[Dave A.]

So then just get something small. I already told you what I don't like about small EW fireboxes. But it's your budget and your decision.

Now it's sounding like you don't need much heat there at all.

Am not really understanding the central heat options you're talking about.

The $2700 is that from the same dealer and does that include a full SS liner? Note most here would recommend you also have the liner insulated and have a block off plate installed but at a minimum a full SS liner from top of chimney to insert is accepted practice with any insert.

Just to follow clearer the two quotes $3700/2700 which dealer is that-- the one who came out or the one you have to pay $1/mile surcharge?

Wear long gloves (welders/fireplace gloves) when you handle the firewood. And if you have an air compressor, shop vac (blower port), leaf blower, or canned air just spray the firewood before you handle it to get any bugs off.

Edit: Wiki How to Kill Black Widow Spiders
http://www.wikihow.com/Kill-Black-Widow-Spiders

 

[granJean]

Thanks Dave, all good suggestions. I've only had the close dealer out to my house. Vented to the roof wall furnace not really considering that option. The Kodiak 1200 says you can lay fires n-s and I do like that idea.

 

[Sprinter]

Thanks Dave, all good suggestions. I've only had the close dealer out to my house. Vented to the roof wall furnace not really considering that option. The Kodiak 1200 says you can lay fires n-s and I do like that idea.

That Kodiak looks like a pretty nice option and is large enough for you. This youtube shows an installation using 5" pipe which apparently is allowed according to the manual.

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Did you determine whether you can line your chimney be removing the draft?