I am having a True North N10 installed as we speak.. I have some questions

[brenndatomu]

I can't get back to see the label because the clearances are only 3 inches.

Use a cell phone to take a pic of the tag...

 

[WAstate]

Well, I actually can't do that either because I have short fat arms, lol! I do have the manual and the certification number and all that on the manual. I have read through it, but I can't get over it only having a 3 inch clearance to my bare wall. It says its fine, however, wouldn't that make you nervous?

 

[brenndatomu]

t says its fine, however, wouldn't that make you nervous?

To me many of the clearance specs seem pretty conservative, so if they say 3" is OK, I would be good with that...unless after burning a hot fire, the wall seems hot...

 

[WAstate]

To me many of the clearance specs seem pretty conservative, so if they say 3" is OK, I would be good with that...unless after burning a hot fire, the wall seems hot...

Okay well I am super new to wood stoves, this is my first one. Maybe I will "chill out" after the inspector comes and I actually use it. I think I might buy a thermometer for the wall though. Thanks for walking me through this!

 

[Highbeam]

6” behind my blaze king is sheetrock. No wall shield of any kind. I am at the required clearances exactly and that means it’s right. Don’t worry.

Usually these stoves have heat shields attached to them as well as internal insulation firebrick and internal metal layers to reduce side and rear temperatures for the reason of providing the desired small clearances. People want 3” and the manufacturer provided it. That way you don’t have to build some fancy wall shield.

 

[begreen]

No need to look behind the stove, it's in the manual. The minimum spec is 3" corner clearance when installed with double-wall stove pipe. Of course, there is no penalty for exceeding minimums.

 

[WAstate]

6” behind my blaze king is sheetrock. No wall shield of any kind. I am at the required clearances exactly and that means it’s right. Don’t worry.

Usually these stoves have heat shields attached to them as well as internal insulation firebrick and internal metal layers to reduce side and rear temperatures for the reason of providing the desired small clearances. People want 3” and the manufacturer provided it. That way you don’t have to build some fancy wall shield.

I thank you for telling me that. It makes me feel a bit steadier... I ended up emailing the manufacturer and asking why those clearances without a heat barrier. This is their reply:
Hello Elizabeth,
For a residential installation with a double wall chimney connector, your TN10 has been certified to have 3” clearance from the rear corner of the unit to the nearest combustible material. At that distance there is no need for additional heat shield material between the unit and that combustible surface.


So, wow. Okay, I am waiting on the county inspector to stop by and give me the thumbs up, then I am going to buy a new fire extinguisher. THEN.... I am going to try it out :D

 

[DuaeGuttae]

Okay well I am super new to wood stoves, this is my first one. Maybe I will "chill out" after the inspector comes and I actually use it. I think I might buy a thermometer for the wall though. Thanks for walking me through this!

You might want to consider getting an infrared thermometer/temperature gun. You can use it to measure the surface temperature of your woodstove or your wall. They work most accurately on dull black surfaces, so I'm not sure about light-colored paint, but I think some thermometers have an emissivity adjustment for such surfaces. We got our thermometer for measuring stove-top temperatures on our fireplace insert, and it's a valuable tool for that (and for checking out other things around the house). They can be had fairly inexpensively on Amazon.

 

[Highbeam]

I thank you for telling me that. It makes me feel a bit steadier... I ended up emailing the manufacturer and asking why those clearances without a heat barrier. This is their reply:
Hello Elizabeth,
For a residential installation with a double wall chimney connector, your TN10 has been certified to have 3” clearance from the rear corner of the unit to the nearest combustible material. At that distance there is no need for additional heat shield material between the unit and that combustible surface.


So, wow. Okay, I am waiting on the county inspector to stop by and give me the thumbs up, then I am going to buy a new fire extinguisher. THEN.... I am going to try it out :D

Put the main fire extinguisher next to the doorway out. That way you can choose whether to go back in to fight the fire or stay outside safe. I always cringe when people have them near the stove.

 

[WAstate]

Put the main fire extinguisher next to the doorway out. That way you can choose whether to go back in to fight the fire or stay outside safe. I always cringe when people have them near the stove.

Highbeam, I hadn't even thought of that. Thanks for the good advice!

 

[WAstate]

You might want to consider getting an infrared thermometer/temperature gun. You can use it to measure the surface temperature of your woodstove or your wall. They work most accurately on dull black surfaces, so I'm not sure about light-colored paint, but I think some thermometers have an emissivity adjustment for such surfaces. We got our thermometer for measuring stove-top temperatures on our fireplace insert, and it's a valuable tool for that (and for checking out other things around the house). They can be had fairly inexpensively on Amazon.

I will check those out. I am concerned with pyrolysis because of the age of my cabin and it used to have a woodstove in the same spot. So it could catch fire at a lower temp! That might be just what I need. After doing some research I have learned your materials can start breaking down over 90 degrees. I will be keeping a sharp eye out on that.

 

[brenndatomu]

I have learned your materials can start breaking down over 90 degrees. I will be keeping a sharp eye out on that.

Don't get too paranoid with this though...it may start to break down, but it still takes some pretty good temps to actually catch fire....the lowest documented that I have ever heard of was something like 180* F...it was a beam in an old building that had a hot water heating pipe next to it...if my wall is anywhere near 180*, I'm gonna be doing something different...

 

[WAstate]

Don't get too paranoid with this though...it may start to break down, but it still takes some pretty good temps to actually catch fire....the lowest documented that I have ever heard of was something like 180* F...it was a beam in an old building that had a hot water heating pipe next to it...if my wall is anywhere near 180*, I'm gonna be doing something different...

Good to know, thanks So I was just on Amazon and then google looking at the thermal imaging thermometers and also the laser ones, along with just a basic one to put on the wall. What would the differences be? The thermal imagining are a few hundred dollars to $1000 and the most accurate, but the other laser ones are anywhere from $27 to $45 just read wall heat. Wouldn't a digital thermometer or a basic metal one just do the same?

 

[Nigel459]

After doing some research I have learned your materials can start breaking down over 90 degrees. I will be keeping a sharp eye out on that.

Good on you for being concerned, but I agree don't lose too much sleep on it. The 3" specs are well tested and there for a reason. Also, in case you're not aware, that stove does have a sheet metal outer layer hung around the inner steel body. so there is some shielding built in. There's also comfort in the fact that it's just the corner at 3", not the whole side or rear of the stove, if you get my meaning.

I would try it out and feel the with your hand. if you can comfortably keep your hand on the wall, you're fine, especially if it's sheetrock/drywall. Looks like you're thinking of getting an infrared thermometer--even better.

 

[WAstate]

Good on you for being concerned, but I agree don't lose too much sleep on it. The 3" specs are well tested and there for a reason. Also, in case you're not aware, that stove does have a sheet metal outer layer hung around the inner steel body. so there is some shielding built in. There's also comfort in the fact that it's just the corner at 3", not the whole side or rear of the stove, if you get my meaning.

I would try it out and feel the with your hand. if you can comfortably keep your hand on the wall, you're fine, especially if it's sheetrock/drywall. Looks like you're thinking of getting an infrared thermometer--even better.

Thanks Nigel459. It passed inspection, but the inspector didn't do any real looking or measuring. He showed up, was here all of 5 minutes yesterday and said he liked the chimney brace outside, and looked at the wood stove. Didn't open the door, or measure, just checked a box and said, "okay, you will love having wood heat this winter" and gave me the approved paperwork. Is that odd? I said, "aren't you going to check the clearances?" He said no, they look fine and that was it. It didn't do much for alleviating any concern.

What is the difference between an infrared and a regular plastic or metal thermometer? I am going to go today and hopefully finish with all of this buying stuff, gloves, pokers, ash cans, fire extinguishers, thermometers, etc. After all that, I may have time to start my first fire

 

[brenndatomu]

Good to know, thanks So I was just on Amazon and then google looking at the thermal imaging thermometers and also the laser ones, along with just a basic one to put on the wall. What would the differences be? The thermal imagining are a few hundred dollars to $1000 and the most accurate, but the other laser ones are anywhere from $27 to $45 just read wall heat. Wouldn't a digital thermometer or a basic metal one just do the same?

You can also get a "cheap-ish" camera for your smart phone that makes it into a thermal imaging camera too (Seek is the one I have) they work pretty well.
But yes, a regular old thermometer would work too, if you can find one that reads high enough, and then you can find the right spot to place it...but I would probably just get a standard old infrared thermometer and then (temporarily) tape a sheet a black paper on the wall to give it a flat black target to get your measurements from...not sure how you use it on the white pipe and stove though...unless you spray a small flat black target with high temp paint (probably a bad idea) or just use it on the white paint and know that it may not be entirely accurate.
Another option would be a BBQ thermometer...I have a dual probe that I use on my wood furnace in the basement to monitor the stack and plenum temps from my recliner (wireless remote readout) one probe could go in your pipe, one attached to whatever surface you want to monitor? I have a Maverick ET-732...it has programmable high and low temp alarms for both probes too...dang thing will run a whole heating season (plus) on a set of batteries!

 

[WAstate]

You can also get a "cheap-ish" camera for your smart phone that makes it into a thermal imaging camera too (Seek is the one I have) they work pretty well.
But yes, a regular old thermometer would work too, if you can find one that reads high enough, and then you can find the right spot to place it...but I would probably just get a standard old infrared thermometer and then (temporarily) tape a sheet a black paper on the wall to give it a flat black target to get your measurements from...not sure how you use it on the white pipe and stove though...unless you spray a small flat black target with high temp paint (probably a bad idea) or just use it on the white paint and know that it may not be entirely accurate.
Another option would be a BBQ thermometer...I have a dual probe that I use on my wood furnace in the basement to monitor the stack and plenum temps from my recliner (wireless remote readout) one probe could go in your pipe, one attached to whatever surface you want to monitor? I have a Maverick ET-732...it has programmable high and low temp alarms for both probes too...dang thing will run a whole heating season (plus) on a set of batteries!

Thanks for that info brenndatomu. I thought about getting the probe one for my flue, but decided I didn't want to chance having a hole drilled in it. I will check out seek! I have a fireplace thermometer already, for the stove itself not for the flue. I want one for the wall though, and hopefully it won't be hot enough to worry about a high temp reading :D

 

[brenndatomu]

I thought about getting the probe one for my flue, but decided I didn't want to change having a hole drilled in it.

That's no big deal...a small (3/16 - 1/4") hole is easily plugged with a bolt or screw threaded into the hole if you don't want to use it later on...no harm to the pipe...lots and lots of choices of head type at the hardware store so you can find something that looks OK... I always use stainless steel.

 

[brenndatomu]

I have a fireplace thermometer already, for the stove itself not for the flue. I want one for the wall though, and hopefully it won't be hot enough to worry about a high temp reading :D

True...but you probably want to make sure it goes up to 120*, at a minimum...

 

[WAstate]

True...but you probably want to make sure it goes up to 120*, at a minimum...

Do you think it will get that hot?? Oh my...

 

[WAstate]

True...but you probably want to make sure it goes up to 120*, at a minimum...

I found in the forum a great debate on this subject. Will copy and paste here: As Craig likes to point out: hydronic/steam heating lines are in direct wood contact in millions of homes, and sit at 180°F or higher for long periods of time. I don't think there is any pyrolysis issue below 210°F, a good 140°F above ambient. The +90°F rule is conservative not b/c of pyrolosis, but to provide some safety margin in the case of a significant, unattended overfire.

Here is another reply:
BTW, don't go trusting your hand to act as a replacement for an IR gun. The way that skin perceives temperature is pretty complex. In a simplified explanation, it senses the rate of heat transfer, not the actual temperature itself.

Water can't be tolerated much beyond 115-120ºF for very long because water holds a lot of heat and it directly touches every pore in your skin. Aluminum foil OTOH can be held in the hand right out of a hot oven because there is very little heat contained in it because it has so little mass. Touch your cast iron stove at the same temp and you'll get zapped pretty good.

Insulating materials have there own properties that can deceive you. Wet wood is a fair conductor of heat, so it will feel hot at 150º, but dry wood won't feel hot at all at that temp because it is a superior insulator. I have had my firewood hit 145º at the recommended 3' side clearance for my stove. I could hold the back of my hand against it all day long.

Charcoal is an even better insulator. To prove this point to myself, I went down to the stove a few hours ago to check the surface temp of my coal bed. I got a reading of 225º. I put the sensitive back of my hand against and it just felt warm. I dusted off the fly ash and stirred the coals up a tiny bit and got a reading of 375º. Unbelievably, I was able to place the back of my hand on the coal bed without getting burned. This is the real secret of Indonesian fire walkers (that and a couple liters of coconut hooch).

In my physics text I once saw a photo of a cube of ultra-high insulating space age ceramic. It had a measured surface temp of 2500ºF, but the tech was holding it by the corners with his bare fingers.


Get an IR thermometer. They're dirt cheap now, and they work. It'll inform you a hundred times more than those stupid moisture meters everybody's using to give themselves a nervous breakdown about their seasoned wood.

Looks like I am going to buy an Infrared gun!

 

[brenndatomu]

Do you think it will get that hot?? Oh my...

That's not hot...wood framing/decking in the attics of south Florida homes see probably 140-150* regularly...

 

[SpaceBus]

My woodburning cookstove is 2" from my counter with just a thin piece of metal in between. That is the minimum stated clearance (with shielding) and the wooden counter and side do not exceed 80-90 DF even when the firebox is raging with a 500 degree oven. Before summer rolled around I had a wooden counter exactly 6" from the right side(firebox side) of the cookstove, no issues there either. Currently there is an electric range oven 6" from the stove and no problems there either. Generally the stated clearances in the manual are pretty conservative, but not always. Keep an eye on things and if there are heat problems you will have to move the stove, no big deal.

 

[moresnow]

Get the cheap IR gun. You will enjoy learning the spots to keep a eye on. I have one from Flea Bay I spent roughly $12 including shipping several years ago. I have never had a problem monitoring temps on sheetrock, cement board or stone. Painted or not. Light colored or dark. Lots of interesting places around the house to check temps. You may be surprised at what you find. Interior and exterior walls, windows, floors, doors, electric receptacles etc.

 

[WAstate]

Get the cheap IR gun. You will enjoy learning the spots to keep a eye on. I have one from Flea Bay I spent roughly $12 including shipping several years ago. I have never had a problem monitoring temps on sheetrock, cement board or stone. Painted or not. Light colored or dark. Lots of interesting places around the house to check temps. You may be surprised at what you find. Interior and exterior walls, windows, floors, doors, electric receptacles etc.

Well now I want one, lol!