Hybrids

[jharkin]

EPA changed the test procedure in 2008. The new version of the test is run with the air conditioner on and with harder acceleration and a few other changes. The old test was completely unrealistic (hw test was run at 45mph with granny like acceleration), the new one is slightly unrealistic. If you go to the epa fuel economy website they give adjusted ratings for older cars that are 10-20% lower than what was published on the old test.

There was also a change to how horsepower numbers are calculated and published a few years earlier (05 or 06). The old system underrated accessory loads.

 

[TMonter]

My MINI Cooper gets 40 mpg, is made by BMW, and is pretty sporty. The hatch is pretty square and can fit a pretty good amount of stuff in it with the seats folded down. It would be nice to get 50 mpg though.

But the Mini is hard to find good mechanics for and is relatively expensive to fix. I'd go for a used Honda Civic or Toyota Corolla and end up with a total bill for the car around 6-9k depending on the year and save the rest of the money for gas. Both cars are rock solid, last well beyond 250k miles and have a very low cost of ownership. Some of the most expensive repairs on a Civic or Corolla can be less than the battery pack on a hybrid.

 

[velvetfoot]

95,000 miles on my 2008. Had to replace a leaky water pump. Do the Civic and Corolla still come with rear drums standard? What does rock solid mean? My MINI is built solid, more so than the Civic or Corolla. I know a guy that had to have 4 automatic transmissions replaced on his Acura. Then there's this tidbit: (broken link removed to http://news.yahoo.com/honda-expands-north-american-recall-over-600-000-142655633--finance.html)

 

[TMonter]

95,000 miles on my 2008. Had to replace a leaky water pump. Do the Civic and Corolla still come with rear drums standard? What does rock solid mean? My MINI is built solid, more so than the Civic or Corolla. I know a guy that had to have 4 automatic transmissions replaced on his Acura. Then there's this tidbit: (broken link removed to http://news.yahoo.com/honda-expands-north-american-recall-over-600-000-142655633--finance.html)

The Acura isn't the same thing. There are no equivalent cars from Acura to a Civic and none from Lexus to a Corolla. I'm guessing it was a late 90's or early 2000's Acura? Likely between a 1999 and 2004 I'm betting.

Nothing wrong with the Mini but the base model is around 22k and 26k for the 'S' version and repairs on average are double that of the equivalent Corolla or Civic. It's just finding someone that works on a Mini and doesn't charge an arm and a leg because there are so few comparatively is tough. (I have a friend who owns one).

Compare that with 16.5k and 18.5k for the Corolla or Civic.

As for rear drums, I'm not sure, but for a small high MPG car rear drums are fine if you aren't going to hot-rod it and I know both the Civic and Corolla have 4 wheel disc on the upper models.

6-8k in cash buys a lot of gas, 60k miles worth if you drive conservatively.

Minis have had their share of recalls too, the difference is they sell a lot more Hondas or Toyotas compared to minis here in the US.

http://money.cnn.com/2012/01/16/autos/mini_cooper_recall/index.htm

If the goal is a high mileage car that will be reliable and have a low cost of ownership, it's hard to go wrong with a Civic or Corolla unless you happen to get one that's been severely mistreated.

 

[begreen]

well, I just found a 2007 Prius for 12,999. 63k miles. My question is this and it is puzzling me...why does a 2007 prius list the MPG as 60 city, 51 hwy. But a new one, lets says 2009 list as 48 city, 45 hwy? One would think the newer the car the better, but no..

Your local terrain, driving habits and average temps will determine mileage. In a 2006 Prius we get about 47mpg with local short trip, up and down hill driving and about 55mpg on the freeway if I don't push it over 65.

 

[TMonter]

Your local terrain, driving habits and average temps will determine mileage. In a 2006 Prius we get about 47mpg with local short trip, up and down hill driving and about 55mpg on the freeway if I don't push it over 65.

Any planned/unplanned maintenance yet on the Prius BeGreen? (besides oil changes and tires of course)

Also when you replaced tires did you put the low rolling resistance tires back on it? I like the Prius as an idea but potential repair costs should something big go wrong worries me.

 

[begreen]

None other than a cabin filter that some mice made a nest on . I put on Goodyear ComfortTreads. They can handle higher inflation levels and worked out well without adversely affecting mileage.​

 

[TMonter]

None other than a cabin filter that some mice made a nest on . I put on Goodyear ComfortTreads. They can handle higher inflation levels and worked out well without adversely affecting mileage.​

But over-inflating tires also causes improper wear. If you want even wear, typically you don't inflate more than 35 pounds.

 

[MasterMech]

95,000 miles on my 2008. Had to replace a leaky water pump. Do the Civic and Corolla still come with rear drums standard? What does rock solid mean? My MINI is built solid, more so than the Civic or Corolla. I know a guy that had to have 4 automatic transmissions replaced on his Acura. Then there's this tidbit: (broken link removed to http://news.yahoo.com/honda-expands-north-american-recall-over-600-000-142655633--finance.html)

Those trans issues were limited to the tiptronic automatic anyways. My FIL blew through 3 of them (he's rough on cars regardless, drives like it's a competition) on an '01 TL in 100K miles. My Dad's GF has replaced the one in her CL as well. Problem is documented and well-known.

But over-inflating tires also causes improper wear. If you want even wear, typically you don't inflate more than 35 pounds.

Depends on the tire, the load, and the terrain, not just the inflation pressure. Leave the rear tires on your truck at 35 lbs and load up with firewood (or whatever) and see how even those tires wear.

IIRC, "Fuel Saving" tires are designed to inflated to higher pressures and use stiff compunds/construction to reduce rolling resistance.

 

[jharkin]

95,000 miles on my 2008. Had to replace a leaky water pump. Do the Civic and Corolla still come with rear drums standard? What does rock solid mean? My MINI is built solid, more so than the Civic or Corolla. I know a guy that had to have 4 automatic transmissions replaced on his Acura. Then there's this tidbit: (broken link removed to http://news.yahoo.com/honda-expands-north-american-recall-over-600-000-142655633--finance.html)

Those trans issues were limited to the tiptronic automatic anyways. My FIL blew through 3 of them (he's rough on cars regardless, drives like it's a competition) on an '01 TL in 100K miles. My Dad's GF has replaced the one in her CL as well. Problem is documented and well-known.

When he says rock solid in the context of lasting 200k+ he is talking about solid in long term reliability, something most all Japanese makes excel at. The Mini, like most German cars is very solid in fit/finish and initial build quality, something the Germans obsess over. Reliability is not their strength though statistically. The Mini does better than most other Bimmers but a glance at the consumer reports and true delta reports tells me I'd never ever want to live with the Average Audi, VW or BMW past warranty. Not if I valued my sanity.

As far as the Honda transmission issues. Yup they are a problem. But keep in mind the perspective, on a Honda its a disaster is 3 or 4 cars per 100 sold have the issue. Whereas on a 5 series or A6 you have about almost a 50/50 change of things like bad coil packs, injectors, blown water pumps, leaking sunroofs,etc past 5 years. One of my close buddies is a diehard Audi guy, but every one hes ever owned stranded him at least once, his latest A6 wagon has stranded him 3 times.

BTW, "tiptronic" transmissions only come in Porsche's

 

[jharkin]

The Acura isn't the same thing. There are no equivalent cars from Acura to a Civic and none from Lexus to a Corolla. I'm guessing it was a late 90's or early 2000's Acura?
.

The 02-06 RSX, aka 4th gen Integra, was Civic platform based, I still drive a type S as my commuter car, nice little 30mpg go cart with the big motor and 6 speed. The new upcoming ILX is also Civic based.

 

[jharkin]

Back to the topic at hand, Ive been thinking about this a lot lately myself. We need to trade my little Go-Cart for a mid size family hauler that can take 2 car seats and all the gear travelling 2 year olds need. We want something comfortable, needs to be auto for the Mrs. and I want fun to drive.

I do want to be as economical/environmental as I can.

But on the other hand I'm also a diehard car guy. Owned only stick shifts my whole life, used to go to limerock a couple times a year with my dad and take road trips to Indy for the F1 race. My idea of a "sporty" daily driver is a 3 series, an Infinity, a Mustang V8 with snow tires

So what to do.

I will say I am intrigued by the upcoming Ford Fusion Energy plug in. But it will be a snore to drive and its probably going to be priced close to 40. for a lot less money (30-32k) I can get the Fusion Titanium. Now we are talking at 240hp and a shiftable 6 speed and AWD, but still breaking 30mpg highway. Most likely will still cost more in the long run but unless gas stays at $4 or higher it might take 5+ years to brake even.

Taking the thinking a bit further I can take that money, go buy a 3 year old used 3 series or Infiniti G (maybe 25k), spend the leftover cash on the extra gas and probably still come out ahead if gas doesn't go to 6 bucks.

Most likely I will lean towards the Ford or something like an non-hybrid Altima. Keep some fun while still going in the right direction for gas milage. And feeling guilty while I actually enjoy my drive to work.


OR something happens and gas hits 6 bucks by the spring in which case I will certainly be first in line to buy a hybrid. In this space a modestly optioned non-plugin hybrid Fusion is probably going to be the winner cost wise.

 

[TMonter]

Those trans issues were limited to the tiptronic automatic anyways. My FIL blew through 3 of them (he's rough on cars regardless, drives like it's a competition) on an '01 TL in 100K miles. My Dad's GF has replaced the one in her CL as well. Problem is documented and well-known.



Depends on the tire, the load, and the terrain, not just the inflation pressure. Leave the rear tires on your truck at 35 lbs and load up with firewood (or whatever) and see how even those tires wear.

IIRC, "Fuel Saving" tires are designed to inflated to higher pressures and use stiff compunds/construction to reduce rolling resistance.

I realize that, just pointing out that the comfortread he put on his Prius isn't the low rolling resistance tire. I'm kind of curious at what the MPG difference would be between a standard and low resistance tire in MPG.

 

[TMonter]

Back to the topic at hand, Ive been thinking about this a lot lately myself. We need to trade my little Go-Cart for a mid size family hauler that can take 2 car seats and all the gear travelling 2 year olds need. We want something comfortable, needs to be auto for the Mrs. and I want fun to drive.

I do want to be as economical/environmental as I can.

But on the other hand I'm also a diehard car guy. Owned only stick shifts my whole life, used to go to limerock a couple times a year with my dad and take road trips to Indy for the F1 race. My idea of a "sporty" daily driver is a 3 series, an Infinity, a Mustang V8 with snow tires

So what to do.

I will say I am intrigued by the upcoming Ford Fusion Energy plug in. But it will be a snore to drive and its probably going to be priced close to 40. for a lot less money (30-32k) I can get the Fusion Titanium. Now we are talking at 240hp and a shiftable 6 speed and AWD, but still breaking 30mpg highway. Most likely will still cost more in the long run but unless gas stays at $4 or higher it might take 5+ years to brake even.

Taking the thinking a bit further I can take that money, go buy a 3 year old used 3 series or Infiniti G (maybe 25k), spend the leftover cash on the extra gas and probably still come out ahead if gas doesn't go to 6 bucks.

Most likely I will lean towards the Ford or something like an non-hybrid Altima. Keep some fun while still going in the right direction for gas milage. And feeling guilty while I actually enjoy my drive to work.


OR something happens and gas hits 6 bucks by the spring in which case I will certainly be first in line to buy a hybrid. In this space a modestly optioned non-plugin hybrid Fusion is probably going to be the winner cost wise.

I've been keeping an eye on the new Subaru Imprezas myself.

 

[firefighterjake]

I've been keeping an eye on the new Subaru Imprezas myself.

Same here . . . and I see the Legacys now have the CVT transmission with a bump up in power over the Imprezas.

 

[velvetfoot]

There's a pretty big Prius now that still gets good mileage.
I too have noticed worse mileage when I changed tires on my MINI to another brand.

 

[begreen]

But over-inflating tires also causes improper wear. If you want even wear, typically you don't inflate more than 35 pounds.

That would be typical in some cases, that's why I got these tires. The stock Goodyear Integras were at the same pressure. So far it appears that they are not overinflated at 42lbs. After 30K miles the wear has been quite even with regular rotations.

 

[jharkin]

Same here . . . and I see the Legacys now have the CVT transmission with a bump up in power over the Imprezas.

What interested me about the ford is, on paper, the titanium AWD trim had more power than the 6 cylinder Legacy with better fuel economy than the 4 cylinder Legacy. Pricey though, no doubt.

If Subaru can pull off a 6 cylinder Legacy or WRX @ 30mpg highway I will determinately look at it. If Im giong to deal with 25mpg I'd just as well spend the same money and buy a used G37x....

 

[TMonter]

What interested me about the ford is, on paper, the titanium AWD trim had more power than the 6 cylinder Legacy with better fuel economy than the 4 cylinder Legacy. Pricey though, no doubt.

If Subaru can pull off a 6 cylinder Legacy or WRX @ 30mpg highway I will determinately look at it. If Im giong to deal with 25mpg I'd just as well spend the same money and buy a used G37x....

Although Ford has gotten a lot better in recent years I would have reservations about the long term reliability of the Ford over the Subaru.

 

[gregbesia]

+1 on Toyota being rock solid, http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=b-tCCeNSwrs

 

[jharkin]

Although Ford has gotten a lot better in recent years I would have reservations about the long term reliability of the Ford over the Subaru.

I know... Im trying to be open minded to brands this time... But at heart ive always been a Honda guy. I'll probably drive a whole bunch and end up just buying an Accord

hows that for turnaround. I change my mind more often than the mrs.

 

[begreen]

I'm partial to Hondas also. We seriously considered a Civic Hybrid but the inability to fold down the rear seat was an issue.

 

[burnham]

I know... Im trying to be open minded to brands this time... But at heart ive always been a Honda guy. I'll probably drive a whole bunch and end up just buying an Accord

hows that for turnaround. I change my mind more often than the mrs.

We just bought a '13 Accord last week. Has the v-tech 4 cylinder and is an automatic. The wife loves it so far. It's getting a little over 30 mpg, mixed driving. We traded in an '08 G35x which was getting closer to 20 mpg. We test drove the Legacy (we had one for five years and had great luck with it) but I didn't care for the way the car drove. The CVT transmission and boaty ride killed the car for me, it drove like a 1972 John Deere sno-mobile.

 

[WES999]

I have had very good luck with Fords, My Ranger wood-hauler has over 320K on it and is still running OK.
The Ford escort I had went over 250K.

I have been driving my Fiesta for a little over a week now and am quite happy with it. It is a nice little car.
It is getting 42 MPG. My gas bill should be be cut in half or more.

 

[boatboy63]

My personal opinion is that hybrids are fine, but over priced. If you haven't already, check into a Chevy Cruze ECO. There are many people who are hitting just shy of 50 mpg highway with a 1.4 turbo. You can get into a new one for around $20k, or even cheaper considering the 2013's just came out. They have sporty handling and are one of the highest safety rated cars on the road. Rumor has it, they are supposed to come out with a diesel version later this year that will nearly double the torque of the engine and keep the mpg around the same.

If you want to do research on what people really have to say about their actual vehicles, go to (broken link removed) These are actual owners of the cars. It also has detailed information about repair history and common issues that happen with a specific car. That is the site I always go to do my homework before buying.