Hybrid stoves

[Jags]

BBar speaks the truth. I have Tons of respect for Tom (Chimneysweep) but he can only regurgitate the info that the MFG's produce. The MFG's are notorious for propaganda. BTU ratings on stoves are as believable as tonnage ratings for log splitters.

 

[oldspark]

Well you are not going to make love to it just heat the house.

 

[begreen]

Unfortunately, that really isn't a rare occurrence in the northeast. Lots of poorly insulated homes around here. Lots of old homes that are under-insulated.

Indeed, I was thinking more of NY, CT and MA. Lots of poorly insulated homes there. And temps in the teens are pretty common most winters.

 

[BrowningBAR]

Well the Chimneysweep site discussed that and said their ratings were based on an average not peak even thow they gave peak, the woodstock site had a much lower reading if I am reading the chart correctly.

Again, BTU ratings are meaningless and should rarely factor into your buying decision. As you are seeing for yourself, one place measures BTUs one way, another measures them another way. While others just fudge the chit out of them. So, I'm not sure what you are hoping to achieve by comparing BTU ratings.

 

[oldspark]

BBar speaks the truth. I have Tons of respect for Tom (Chimneysweep) but he can only regurgitate the info that the MFG's produce. The MFG's are notorious for propaganda. BTU ratings on stoves are as believable as tonnage ratings for log splitters.

The chimneysweep numbers are not from the manufactor, they are some "real world" numbers they come up with but not sure how they got them, might have been a math thing.

 

[BrowningBAR]

Indeed, I was thinking more of NY, CT and MA. Lots of poorly insulated homes there. And temps in the teens are pretty common most winters.

Even high priced, renovated old homes around here are leaky as hell. I now look for this since I have been fighting drafts in this place.

From window leaks to drafty doors to cold spots on walls and floors, I've been in very expensive renovated homes that were obviously under-insulated.

 

[Jags]

The chimneysweep numbers are not from the manufactor, they are some "real world" numbers they come up with but not sure how they got them, might have been a math thing.

I don't believe that Tom has a test bench/room on site (the only real way to test btu output) - so I would guess that the info is garnered from other sources.

 

[BrowningBAR]

The chimneysweep numbers are not from the manufactor, they are some "real world" numbers they come up with but not sure how they got them, might have been a math thing.

Listen, I understand you are trying to figure out some way to compare stoves, but BTU ratings offer zero value. Basing your purchase on this will only lead to frustration and disappointment.

 

[oldspark]

I dont like btu ratings either and that is why it has always been said here go by firebox size but thats not the whole story either as this thread is showing.

 

[oldspark]

Listen, I understand you are trying to figure out some way to compare stoves, but BTU ratings offer zero value. Basing your purchase on this will only lead to frustration and disappointment.

For sure I lost my head, forgot they were pointless with wood burners. Maybe some where along the line we will get better testing.

 

[BrowningBAR]

For sure I lost my head, forgot they were pointless with wood burners. Maybe some where along the line we will get better testing.

That would be nice. I know there is a big difference between the Progress' 750 lbs 2.75 cu ft firebox and a steel stove of equal firebox size but weighing 200 lbs less. But, it is difficult to find a good way to measure it.

 

[Highbeam]

But thats what I need right now, the house is a big heat sink and gives up the heat over night and in the morning I need a lot of heat to bring up the temp and after that not so much.

Imagine that your fire lasted all night, making heat the whole time, and when you woke up your house had not cooled off. You would not need that burst of heat you would only need enough to continue holding your desired temp. You are suffering from non-cat pulse and glide. If you had woken up in the middle of the night to reload your summit then your home would have stayed warm right? Without need for high output to reheat the house.

I have a summit sized non-cat stove burning right now and I lit the thing up 2.5 hours ago. I've already had to reload it in order to maintain 700 degree stove temps. It has a belly full of coals that will burn way more than 12 hours but the stove will be 350 or so and not 700.

We have wandered into a cat/non-cat debate. They're fun. I have both now and can say that they are each very well suited for each of their applications. Non-cat for short burns and cat to heat the house.

 

[oldspark]

The problem with haveing heat all the time is the house can be 70 degrees with no heat when I go to bed so I do not need the heat at that time, this varies with the conditons but the insulated window shades will solve the problem I think.

 

[BrowningBAR]

The problem with haveing heat all the time is the house can be 70 degrees with no heat when I go to bed so I do not need the heat at that time, this varies with the conditons but the insulated window shades will solve the problem I think.

Right, and this is why I said some people find the even, constant heat of a stove like the BK's desirable. A non-cat stove can meet the needs of a LOT of people since their comfort zone and home heat retention may be drastically different than others, like myself.

 

[begreen]

Even high priced, renovated old homes around here are leaky as hell. I now look for this since I have been fighting drafts in this place.

From window leaks to drafty doors to cold spots on walls and floors, I've been in very expensive renovated homes that were obviously under-insulated.

A lot of the country was raised on cheap energy. Unfortunately that led to carelessness and a lot of waste. Now fuel is getting more expensive and folks are waking up to how leaky a sieve they live in.

FWIW I think mass is another way to balance out the heat cycles of a stove. This is the secret of soapstone and seems to work very well with the T6's cast iron jacket. We had much more of a temperature swing cycle with the more radiant Castine than we do now with the T6. It's nice to come down in the morning to a comfortable living room. Yet we haven't ever been cooked out of the room with the stove.

 

[BrowningBAR]

A lot of the country was raised on cheap energy. Unfortunately that led to carelessness and a lot of waste. Now fuel is getting more expensive and folks are waking up to how leaky a sieve they live in.

FWIW I think mass is another way to balance out the heat cycles of a stove. This is the secret of soapstone and seems to work very well with the T6's cast iron jacket. We had much more of a temperature swing cycle with the more radiant Castine than we do now with the T6. It's nice to come down in the morning to a comfortable living room. Yet we haven't ever been cooked out of the room with the stove.

I agree, mass plays a role. It is just hard to measure.

I'd like to run a Princess and a Progress in the same home at the same time just to see what the difference is (I'm not referring to burn times here. I mean heating capacity). Because, you know there is a difference in terms of how it pushes out heat. But, I'll be damned if I know how to effectively measure the difference.

 

[Todd]

Right, and I can get 12 from the 30NC. But, in those 12 hours, I will get more heat than I need for the first 3-4 hours and then less heat than I would like in the last 3-4 hours. What the BK system does is offer more steady heat throughout the burn cycle.

Exactly right, it evens out the heat more. You may get the same BTU's but I'd rather have less heat spikes. I'm thinking soapstone kind a does the same thing, maybe you don't need the t-stat if you have soapstone mass?

Oh, and don't give me this cast iron jacket crap that heats like soapstone, it's not the same! It's just convection heat not the gental radiant heat of soapstone.

 

[BrowningBAR]

Exactly right, it evens out the heat more. You may get the same BTU's but I'd rather have less heat spikes. I'm thinking soapstone kind a does the same thing, maybe you don't need the t-stat if you have soapstone mass?

Oh, and don't give me this cast iron jacket crap that heats like soapstone, it's not the same! It's just convection heat not the gental radiant heat of soapstone.

I think the cat helps a lot.

The Heritage ran very close to a standard non-cat stove. The difference was at the end of the burn where it would hang out in the 250-300 degree temp longer than, say, a non-cat steel stove.

Not a huge difference, though.

 

[Papa-Yankee-Romeo-Oscar]

Stove Buddies??... http://blog.woodstove.com/2013/11/thinking-outside-box-more-on-stove.html#more

 

[BrowningBAR]

Stove Buddies??... http://blog.woodstove.com/2013/11/thinking-outside-box-more-on-stove.html#more

Yeah, that's a little weird. I'm glad they seem to be enjoying themselves, and they appear to be a company filled with good people, but I don't see that taking off.

 

[Papa-Yankee-Romeo-Oscar]

I agree, seem like great people but the stove buddy thing seems like just another excuse to play with the water jet.

 

[Slow1]

I agree, seem like great people but the stove buddy thing seems like just another excuse to play with the water jet.

And the problem is???

I can't say as I'd mind a chance to play with that and see what I could come up with. I do wonder if that is high temp paint she's using.

In any case - someone has too much time on their hands eh?

 

[webby3650]

Stove Buddies??... http://blog.woodstove.com/2013/11/thinking-outside-box-more-on-stove.html#more

Who on Earth would want all that junk on their stove? Seriously??

 

[mfetcho]

I am a new owner of a T6 and have only owned non-cat stoves. My last house was new and tight and my Quadrafire Cumberland Gap maintained a nice even temp. If it dipped in the night, I could heat the house back up to 70 in an hour. My new (older house) is a little bigger with more windows and less insulation. I definitely have larger temperature swings in this house and I am not able to heat as quickly. My T6 is performing beautifully and I like it better than my Quad, but I have to admit, this thread and other threads really make you think about cat stoves. I like the idea of a more consistant temp while burning.

 

[begreen]

Invest in tightening up leaks in the house and improving insulation. It's going to have the best payback as it will save you year round. Our old farmhouse is from the 1920s and we get very little temperature swing now that the house's is tighter and has better insulation.