Husqvarna/poulan Carb tool

[MasterMech]

Not sure about illegal the husky shop in town sells them on the rack ill look around my garage I think I have a couple laying around. I don't have a husky / poulan anymore. If I do have an extra I'll send it your way Clem.

Pete

Wow, they are in a heap of trouble if a certain agency finds out about that one! Don't think the manufacturer they carry would be too happy either. There was a big stink about that a couple years ago.

(broken link removed to http://weborder.husqvarna.com/order_static/doc/HBUS/HBUS2010/HBUS2010_530035560.pdf)

 

[clemsonfor]

Shops I was at told me they had a flyer out from husky. Mtd had one too. That's why I snatched the o e for it up on eBay from isreal while I could for under $20.

 

[DexterDay]

Wow, they are in a heap of trouble if a certain agency finds out about that one! Don't think the manufacturer they carry would be too happy either. There was a big stink about that a couple years ago.

(broken link removed to http://weborder.husqvarna.com/order_static/doc/HBUS/HBUS2010/HBUS2010_530035560.pdf)

Wow...... What a crock. So now Stihl is gonna make the flat head disappear (I know they use limiters, but those are easily removed)

 

[MasterMech]

Wow...... What a crock. So now Stihl is gonna make the flat head disappear (I know they use limiters, but those are easily removed)

I wouldn't cry if all saws went to the spline tool. It rocks, very easy to adjust with the saw running at WOT. So much better than the little flathead screwdriver. But the restricted availability of the tool however.....

 

[clemsonfor]

Yea with the tool it stays on screws so much better.

And how do they decide who is qualified?? Do I have to go to husky school, take a gov class,? I mean anyone can set up a backyard shop! I mean is MM qualified, is mastermind qualified?

If I want to start fixing saws as a side job who is the gov to tell me I can't buy one?

 

[TreePointer]

Wow, they are in a heap of trouble if a certain agency finds out about that one! Don't think the manufacturer they carry would be too happy either. There was a big stink about that a couple years ago.

(broken link removed to http://weborder.husqvarna.com/order_static/doc/HBUS/HBUS2010/HBUS2010_530035560.pdf)

US Code of Federal Regulations, Title 40: Protection of Environment
§1068.101(b) states:

(2) Defeat devices. You may not knowingly manufacture, sell, offer to sell, or
install, any part that bypasses, impairs, defeats, or disables the control of
emissions of any regulated pollutant … (EPA) may assess a civil penalty up to
$3,750 for each part in violation.

By selling the carburetor adjustment tools to consumers or making it available on the
internet, you may be viewed as selling a “Defeat device” and be subject to the above
penalties.
Please assist us to ensure these tools are only being used
by your qualified staff and are not made available for retail sale to the general public.

The wording of that memo has been very carefully crafted by Husqvqarna. Nowhere in that memo does it directly say that it's ILLEGAL to sell THAT splined carb tool. It's a shame that the OPE industry has allowed itself to be intimidated by unelected bureaucrats at the EPA. I know it costs money to litigate these things, but there is principle involved. I'd love to see any case law involving this particular tool.

Does the proper adjustment tool designed for these splined heads qualify as a "defeat device?" It is the correct tool, NOT A DEFEAT DEVICE, for adjusting these carburetors.

If it is deemed by a court or some other controlling legal authority as a defeat device, then EFFECTIVELY the act of a "non-professional" service technician adjusting a these splined carburetors would be illegal. There is nothing different in the design and functionality of these splined carburetors other than the splined ADJUSTMENT screws; therefore, and by extension, it should be illegal for any "non-professional" to adjust ANY carburetor. This is the logical conclusion of this EPA nonsense.

 

[MasterMech]

The wording of that memo has been very carefully crafted by Husqvqarna. Nowhere in that memo does it directly say that it's ILLEGAL to sell THAT splined carb tool. It's a shame that the OPE industry has allowed itself to be intimidated by unelected bureaucrats at the EPA. I know it costs money to litigate these things, but there is principle involved. I'd love to see any case law involving this particular tool.

Does the proper adjustment tool designed for these splined heads qualify as a "defeat device?" It is the correct tool, NOT A DEFEAT DEVICE, for adjusting these carburetors.

If it is deemed by a court or some other controlling legal authority as a defeat device, then EFFECTIVELY the act of a "non-professional" service technician adjusting a these splined carburetors would be illegal. There is nothing different in the design and functionality of these splined carburetors other than the splined ADJUSTMENT screws; therefore, and by extension, it should be illegal for any "non-professional" to adjust ANY carburetor. This is the logical conclusion of this EPA nonsense.

The movement towards m-tronic and Auto Tune saws, with fuel injection in the not so distant future will make it all a moot point for the most part. Like cars, adjustments will either become unnecessary or the tools to do so will be prohibitively expensive for the average user to own. The only users it will really matter to will be enthusiasts and die hard DIY homeowners. Professional users generally don't keep a saw for more than a few years and MOST homeowner type users are likely to use a dealer shop for service work or simply replace low cost.

 

[mikefrommaine]

They can pry my adjustable 2 stroke carb out of my cold dead hands.

 

[MasterMech]

They can pry my adjustable 2 stroke carb out of my cold dead hands.

How about your fuel-injected truck?

 

[mikefrommaine]

How about your fuel-injected truck?

Apples and oranges.

With 2 strokes the simplicity/reliability/performance/weight factors all make the good old screwdriver hard to beat.

And for the global warming argument :
Look at how many perfectly good pieces of ope that are thrown away because they need an $8 carb kit. Imagine how much waste there will be in a few years when the computer carbs/solenoids whatever start going bad.

 

[MasterMech]

Apples and oranges.

With 2 strokes the simplicity/reliability/performance/weight factors all make the good old screwdriver hard to beat.

I fail to see the difference. Do you miss playing with the carburetor on your 70s era vehicles? No more adjusting carbs for temperature and humidity changes. No tweaking after a bar and chain swap. Apparently they accept major changes to the engine well. (Cars often do not!) Sounds good to me.

 

[TreePointer]

...the only users it will really matter to will be enthusiasts and die hard DIY homeowners. Professional users generally don't keep a saw for more than a few years and MOST homeowner type users are likely to use a dealer shop for service work or simply replace low cost.

So this brings us back to square one. My contention for years has been that these so called deterrents affect so few people that much (but not all) of this type of regulation is a solution looking for a problem.

 

[mikefrommaine]

The difference is I don't need to carry around the extra weight and bulk in my truck like with ope.

I always opt for the simplest, over the long term it seems to be cheaper.


Take the good old distributor ignition system, replaced by coil packs in most newer vehicles. On my truck I've replaced 9 of them. Ford charges $100 for the coil... You'll be we'll over $200-250 to have one replaced. And when they go bad they go bad all of sudden, like driving down the highway and all of sudden there is an awful shudder because a cylinder isn't firing... It's gotten to the point where I keep a spare in the glovebox so I can pull over and fix it. I'd much rather have to replace the cap rotor and wires every 10 years... I replaced the originals in my 99 astro last year. Total cost was about what one coil pack costs.

You can't tell me coil packs save the average consumer any money long term. One of those solutions looking for a problem.

 

[MasterMech]

So this brings us back to square one. My contention for years has been that these so called deterrents affect so few people that much (but not all) of this type of regulation is a solution looking for a problem.

Oh it affects many people for sure but the vast majority of them are indifferent and silent. The really vocal ones are on enthusiast boards like this one and AS. The rest of the small engine industry is going FI so it was just a matter of time before the handheld equipment followed suit. This kind of stuff starts on the high dollar models and trickles down into the mainstream and entry level stuff once the mfg gains experience.

 

[MasterMech]

The difference is I don't need to carry around the extra weight and bulk in my truck. I always opt for the simplest, over the long term it seems to be cheaper.


Take the good old distributor ignition system, replaced by coil packs in most newer vehicles. On my truck I've replaced 9 of them. Ford charges $100 for the coil... You'll be we'll over $200-250 to have one replaced. And when they go bad they go bad all of sudden, like driving down the highway and all of sudden there is an awful shudder because a cylinder isn't firing... It's gotten to the point where I keep a spare in the glovebox so I can pull over and fix it. I'd much rather have to replace the cap rotor and wires every 10 years... I replaced the originals in my 99 astro last year. Total cost was about what one coil pack costs.

You can't tell me coil packs save the average consumer any money long term. One of those solutions looking for a problem.

9 coils?! Stop replacing bodies and start looking for the sniper. Haven't owned a ford in quite some time..... Is this a prevalent issue with that truck?

How much weight are we talking about here Mike? A few grams? Real weight gain comes when the saws went Strato due to the extra material required to build those extra channels/ports. None of us on this board are using a saw enough for a difference of less than a pound to matter.

 

[mikefrommaine]

It's a common problem. They started going bad at 50k. I still have one original that's holding on, but I noticed my truck surging a little when I started it to today, might be on its way out. The computer won't pick up a misfire code until the truck is running really bad. Haven't had any of the replacements go bad yet.

Google 'ford 2 piece spark plug' for the ultimate solution looking for a problem that didn't exist.

 

[mikefrommaine]

Take a look at the difference between when saws were made for performance/weight/reliability and today... Something like a 254/262xp they are lighter, simple, have modern air filtration and AV and perform right with any of the newer $800 modern saws.

The engineering of my 254xp is head and shoulders vs the 'new and improved' 357xp/359.

 

[MasterMech]

Take a look at the difference between when saws were made for performance/weight/reliability and today... Something like a 254/262xp they are lighter, simple, have modern air filtration and AV and perform right with any of the newer $800 modern saws.

The engineering of my 254xp is head and shoulders vs the 'new and improved' 357xp/359.

I'm not so sure that 254XP is gonna hang with a $800 saw these days. I think a 562XP would walk all over it..

 

[Pallet Pete]

9 coils?! Stop replacing bodies and start looking for the sniper. Haven't owned a ford in quite some time..... Is this a prevalent issue with that truck?

How much weight are we talking about here Mike? A few grams? Real weight gain comes when the saws went Strato due to the extra material required to build those extra channels/ports. None of us on this board are using a saw enough for a difference of less than a pound to matter.

Yes my mother in laws Ford Escape has had them all replaced at least twice. ( By Me ) my Blazer in comparison twice in 12 years for the cap and rotor.

Pete

 

[TreePointer]

Oh it affects many people for sure but the vast majority of them are indifferent and silent. The really vocal ones are on enthusiast boards like this one and AS. The rest of the small engine industry is going FI so it was just a matter of time before the handheld equipment followed suit. This kind of stuff starts on the high dollar models and trickles down into the mainstream and entry level stuff once the mfg gains experience.

I didn't word that properly. I meant that the proprietary screw heads actually deter very few people.

The farmers, tinkerers, and professionals who use this equipment will find ways to defeat the limiting measures (cut slots in screw heads, remove/alter limiter caps, force copper tubing over the heads, et al.). Most homeowners are afraid to touch a carb or engine and have no interest in a splined tool, so they take their equipment to a shop.

 

[mikefrommaine]

I'm not so sure that 254XP is gonna hang with a $800 saw these days. I think a 562XP would walk all over it..

I haven't used a 562 but I can tell you the 254 makes my ms361 feel heavy, bloated and slow.

 

[DexterDay]

Everyone told me I NEEDED a 361...... Got 2 now. AV is better than the 036 Pro. But in the power dept? The 036 Pro takes the cake. Seems like they dont have the torque and grunt the 036 does.

Overall, I am not super impressed. One will hopefully make a Trip to Tn.