Huskee 22 ton hydraulic oil questions

[Gooserider]

As LL said, it is to late for priming at this point - the system is filled... What SHOULD have been done, as with any hydraulic system being put into service, and what should be done any time the system is drained to the point where the pump is empty, is to pull the engine over without starting it, so that the pump can fill itself with oil. In order for the pump to fill, you have to give the air in it someplace else to go, which you do by holding the valve in the right position to move the piston in the cylinder (usually the extend position, but it all depends on where the wedge is when you start)...

When the pump fills up, it will start compressing the air in the system, and you will get a bit of movement in the wedge, it is OK to start the engine after this.

Usually this will take 5-10 pulls - if you have a stiff engine, it may help to pull the plug in order to get rid of the compression loading, but that just makes it easier to turn over.

Once the engine is started, you should then cycle the wedge all the way up and down several times to purge the air from the system - if there is air in the system, the piston movement will be very jerky (keep body parts clear), as the air purges it will smooth out - when it runs up and down smoothly, stop the engine and check the hydraulic fluid level, you will probably be a couple quarts to a gallon low - this is the amount that lives in the pump, cylinder, and other plumbing.

Since the pump is normally lubricated by the hydraulic fluid, starting it up without priming is one of those mystery abuse situations, where you have probably done some level of damage to it, and shortened it's life, but how much is really an unknown... However there is no real way of going back, so you will have to live with it, and note that the pump may still last a VERY long time...

Gooserider

 

[iceman]

return it and get a new one ..... then prime it yourself just in case

 

[beagler]

Thanks everyone. I just reread my manual, and it states on page 8 (for those of you who own Huskee 22's)
"After the hydraulic reservoir and the engine crankcase are filled with oil, start the engine. The hydraulic pump should prime itself. With the engine running, move the hydraulic valve lever toward the wedge........any erratic movement indicates air......more oil should then be added to bring the fluid level up."

This is what the salesman did for me, so I feel much more comfortable now.

 

[kgreer]

[quote author="Gooserider" date="1247450552"]As LL said, it is to late for priming at this point - the system is filled... What SHOULD have been done, as with any hydraulic system being put into service, and what should be done any time the system is drained to the point where the pump is empty, is to pull the engine over without starting it, so that the pump can fill itself with oil. In order for the pump to fill, you have to give the air in it someplace else to go, which you do by holding the valve in the right position to move the piston in the cylinder (usually the extend position, but it all depends on where the wedge is when you start)...

When the pump fills up, it will start compressing the air in the system, and you will get a bit of movement in the wedge, it is OK to start the engine after this.

Usually this will take 5-10 pulls - if you have a stiff engine, it may help to pull the plug in order to get rid of the compression loading, but that just makes it easier to turn over.

Once the engine is started, you should then cycle the wedge all the way up and down several times to purge the air from the system - if there is air in the system, the piston movement will be very jerky (keep body parts clear), as the air purges it will smooth out - when it runs up and down smoothly, stop the engine and check the hydraulic fluid level, you will probably be a couple quarts to a gallon low - this is the amount that lives in the pump, cylinder, and other plumbing.

Since the pump is normally lubricated by the hydraulic fluid, starting it up without priming is one of those mystery abuse situations, where you have probably done some level of damage to it, and shortened it's life, but how much is really an unknown... However there is no real way of going back, so you will have to live with it, and note that the pump may still last a VERY long time...

Gooserider[/quote

One point to make is that most log splitter valves have an open center. You do not need to hold the valve in the forward positon to give the air someplace to go. It will simply go up the hose and out the other side of the valve. I don't know of any log splitters that operate with a closed center valve configuration.

 

[Gooserider]

As LL said, it is to late for priming at this point - the system is filled... What SHOULD have been done, as with any hydraulic system being put into service, and what should be done any time the system is drained to the point where the pump is empty, is to pull the engine over without starting it, so that the pump can fill itself with oil. In order for the pump to fill, you have to give the air in it someplace else to go, which you do by holding the valve in the right position to move the piston in the cylinder (usually the extend position, but it all depends on where the wedge is when you start)...

When the pump fills up, it will start compressing the air in the system, and you will get a bit of movement in the wedge, it is OK to start the engine after this.

Usually this will take 5-10 pulls - if you have a stiff engine, it may help to pull the plug in order to get rid of the compression loading, but that just makes it easier to turn over.

Once the engine is started, you should then cycle the wedge all the way up and down several times to purge the air from the system - if there is air in the system, the piston movement will be very jerky (keep body parts clear), as the air purges it will smooth out - when it runs up and down smoothly, stop the engine and check the hydraulic fluid level, you will probably be a couple quarts to a gallon low - this is the amount that lives in the pump, cylinder, and other plumbing.

Since the pump is normally lubricated by the hydraulic fluid, starting it up without priming is one of those mystery abuse situations, where you have probably done some level of damage to it, and shortened it's life, but how much is really an unknown... However there is no real way of going back, so you will have to live with it, and note that the pump may still last a VERY long time...

Gooserider

One point to make is that most log splitter valves have an open center. You do not need to hold the valve in the forward positon to give the air someplace to go. It will simply go up the hose and out the other side of the valve. I don't know of any log splitters that operate with a closed center valve configuration.

That is very true Speecotech, and in theory one could just leave the valve alone while doing the priming step - however you then have no good way to tell when you have really primed the pump. By holding the valve, and watching for the wedge to move, you KNOW that the pump has pulled in enough fluid to start pressurizing the system and is thus ready to go... Thus rather than saying "Pull the engine over "N" times, and hoping that it's enough, holding the valve down gives you a definite indicator.

Probably doesn't make a huge difference which way you do it on machines where the pump is mounted close to or below the fluid level in the tank, and have a short suction hose, but I suspect it might matter quite a bit on machines where the pump is mounted above the tank.

Gooserider

 

[flewism]

I don't have any definitive answers, but here are a few things I've picked up in different places...

2. They make, for relatively short money, filter brackets that have indicators on them that show when the filter is getting clogged. Replacing the filter as shown by that indicator is a best practice, doing it by time can result in either "wasting money" by changing the filter to soon, or circulating unfiltered oil through the machine if the filter clogs up and starts bypassing before you change it.


Gooserider

Where would I find one of those? I know somewhat what you are talking about as I have air filter indicators on all of our vehicles. (5 total). Me, mom, and a couple of teenage drivers plus a extra truck. I have an Autozone and couple of NAPA auto parts in town, or should I look online?

I have a Huskee 22 ton and this was my fourth summer splitting with it, good machine. I've never changed the hydraulic oil, but I've changed to filter twice so far. If I remember correctly I thought that filter was kind of high like $10.95 at TSC. Engine oil get changed every spring along with all the other small engines. I believe I'm running 25 wt. hydraulic oil as that is what they filled it with when I bought it, and I've topped it off when I change the filter. When it is hard starting in winter I just point to kerosene torpedo heater at it for an hour go back inside for breakfast and coffee, and she will fire right up. I'd say she done at least 35 cords maybe just under 40. I'm the only one heating with wood but ,I been supplying my parents and one sister with wood for their fireplaces for quite a while now.

 

[Gooserider]

I don't have any definitive answers, but here are a few things I've picked up in different places...

2. They make, for relatively short money, filter brackets that have indicators on them that show when the filter is getting clogged. Replacing the filter as shown by that indicator is a best practice, doing it by time can result in either "wasting money" by changing the filter to soon, or circulating unfiltered oil through the machine if the filter clogs up and starts bypassing before you change it.


Gooserider

Where would I find one of those? I know somewhat what you are talking about as I have air filter indicators on all of our vehicles. (5 total). Me, mom, and a couple of teenage drivers plus a extra truck. I have an Autozone and couple of NAPA auto parts in town, or should I look online?

I have a Huskee 22 ton and this was my fourth summer splitting with it, good machine. I've never changed the hydraulic oil, but I've changed to filter twice so far. If I remember correctly I thought that filter was kind of high like $10.95 at TSC. Engine oil get changed every spring along with all the other small engines. I believe I'm running 25 wt. hydraulic oil as that is what they filled it with when I bought it, and I've topped it off when I change the filter. When it is hard starting in winter I just point to kerosene torpedo heater at it for an hour go back inside for breakfast and coffee, and she will fire right up. I'd say she done at least 35 cords maybe just under 40. I'm the only one heating with wood but ,I been supplying my parents and one sister with wood for their fireplaces for quite a while now.

Tougher to find than I thought... Googling a bit, (broken link removed to http://www.mpfiltriusa.com/index.htm) seems to have them, Northern makes a filter head that appears to have a 1/8" port on it for an indicator, but no indicator itself, same for Burden's Surplus Sales... Haven't found much on the indicators themself, but from the pictures it looks like a small pressure guage w/ red and green zones marked at the bypass opening point, or thereabouts. Presumably it might not be that hard to add something to an existing filter head just by drilling and tapping either the head or the plumbing to it and installing a guage...

Let me know what you find out...

Gooserider

 

['bert]

Here is a gauge from a Canadian company.

http://www.princessauto.com/hydraulics/components/gauges/8040041-0-30-psi-filter-gauge

It goes from 0 -30 psi, but does not say at what pressure you need to change your filter. :-S

I am about due for a new filter (1 yr and bit), maybe I will get the gauge and put it on with my current filter and then put a new filter on and see what the difference is..

does anyone know what the return pressure should be?

 

[Gooserider]

Here is a gauge from a Canadian company.

http://www.princessauto.com/hydraulics/components/gauges/8040041-0-30-psi-filter-gauge

It goes from 0 -30 psi, but does not say at what pressure you need to change your filter. :-S

I am about due for a new filter (1 yr and bit), maybe I will get the gauge and put it on with my current filter and then put a new filter on and see what the difference is..

does anyone know what the return pressure should be?

Well most of the filter heads that I was looking at, said their bypass pressure was around 25psi. Since going into bypass means the filter is thoroughly clogged, and you shouldn't be running that high a pressure, my first guess would be that you should change the filter around 15-20 pounds...

Gooserider

 

[kgreer]

As LL said, it is to late for priming at this point - the system is filled... What SHOULD have been done, as with any hydraulic system being put into service, and what should be done any time the system is drained to the point where the pump is empty, is to pull the engine over without starting it, so that the pump can fill itself with oil. In order for the pump to fill, you have to give the air in it someplace else to go, which you do by holding the valve in the right position to move the piston in the cylinder (usually the extend position, but it all depends on where the wedge is when you start)...

When the pump fills up, it will start compressing the air in the system, and you will get a bit of movement in the wedge, it is OK to start the engine after this.

Usually this will take 5-10 pulls - if you have a stiff engine, it may help to pull the plug in order to get rid of the compression loading, but that just makes it easier to turn over.

Once the engine is started, you should then cycle the wedge all the way up and down several times to purge the air from the system - if there is air in the system, the piston movement will be very jerky (keep body parts clear), as the air purges it will smooth out - when it runs up and down smoothly, stop the engine and check the hydraulic fluid level, you will probably be a couple quarts to a gallon low - this is the amount that lives in the pump, cylinder, and other plumbing.

Since the pump is normally lubricated by the hydraulic fluid, starting it up without priming is one of those mystery abuse situations, where you have probably done some level of damage to it, and shortened it's life, but how much is really an unknown... However there is no real way of going back, so you will have to live with it, and note that the pump may still last a VERY long time...

Gooserider

One point to make is that most log splitter valves have an open center. You do not need to hold the valve in the forward positon to give the air someplace to go. It will simply go up the hose and out the other side of the valve. I don't know of any log splitters that operate with a closed center valve configuration.

That is very true Speecotech, and in theory one could just leave the valve alone while doing the priming step - however you then have no good way to tell when you have really primed the pump. By holding the valve, and watching for the wedge to move, you KNOW that the pump has pulled in enough fluid to start pressurizing the system and is thus ready to go... Thus rather than saying "Pull the engine over "N" times, and hoping that it's enough, holding the valve down gives you a definite indicator.

Probably doesn't make a huge difference which way you do it on machines where the pump is mounted close to or below the fluid level in the tank, and have a short suction hose, but I suspect it might matter quite a bit on machines where the pump is mounted above the tank.

Gooserider

Gooseride, I completely agree with what you are saying about the valve giving you an indicator. All of our models do have a pump that is located at or below the level of fluid in the tank with a short suction hose. With our models two or three pulls is sufficient to get some fluid in to the pump to lubricate it. As long as the fluid level in the tank has been filled with the proper amount. Thanks for sharing your knowledge!

 

[Gooserider]

As LL said, it is to late for priming at this point - the system is filled... What SHOULD have been done, as with any hydraulic system being put into service, and what should be done any time the system is drained to the point where the pump is empty, is to pull the engine over without starting it, so that the pump can fill itself with oil. In order for the pump to fill, you have to give the air in it someplace else to go, which you do by holding the valve in the right position to move the piston in the cylinder (usually the extend position, but it all depends on where the wedge is when you start)...

When the pump fills up, it will start compressing the air in the system, and you will get a bit of movement in the wedge, it is OK to start the engine after this.

Usually this will take 5-10 pulls - if you have a stiff engine, it may help to pull the plug in order to get rid of the compression loading, but that just makes it easier to turn over.

Once the engine is started, you should then cycle the wedge all the way up and down several times to purge the air from the system - if there is air in the system, the piston movement will be very jerky (keep body parts clear), as the air purges it will smooth out - when it runs up and down smoothly, stop the engine and check the hydraulic fluid level, you will probably be a couple quarts to a gallon low - this is the amount that lives in the pump, cylinder, and other plumbing.

Since the pump is normally lubricated by the hydraulic fluid, starting it up without priming is one of those mystery abuse situations, where you have probably done some level of damage to it, and shortened it's life, but how much is really an unknown... However there is no real way of going back, so you will have to live with it, and note that the pump may still last a VERY long time...

Gooserider

One point to make is that most log splitter valves have an open center. You do not need to hold the valve in the forward positon to give the air someplace to go. It will simply go up the hose and out the other side of the valve. I don't know of any log splitters that operate with a closed center valve configuration.

That is very true Speecotech, and in theory one could just leave the valve alone while doing the priming step - however you then have no good way to tell when you have really primed the pump. By holding the valve, and watching for the wedge to move, you KNOW that the pump has pulled in enough fluid to start pressurizing the system and is thus ready to go... Thus rather than saying "Pull the engine over "N" times, and hoping that it's enough, holding the valve down gives you a definite indicator.

Probably doesn't make a huge difference which way you do it on machines where the pump is mounted close to or below the fluid level in the tank, and have a short suction hose, but I suspect it might matter quite a bit on machines where the pump is mounted above the tank.

Gooserider

Gooseride, I completely agree with what you are saying about the valve giving you an indicator. All of our models do have a pump that is located at or below the level of fluid in the tank with a short suction hose. With our models two or three pulls is sufficient to get some fluid in to the pump to lubricate it. As long as the fluid level in the tank has been filled with the proper amount. Thanks for sharing your knowledge!

No problem at all, glad to help out. I appreciate your stopping by every once in a while to help out our Speeco owning members with their questions.

I'm happy w/ my HF unit, but it does seem like the reports I've heard on Speeco have been very positive. Speeco via Tractor Supply was on my "short list" when I was shopping for my splitter. I think one of the big decision factors for me was the way that HF uses the beam as the trailer tongue, and thus allows a very small footprint when storing the machine simply by tilting the beam to vertical mode. I don't know if you have much ability to give customer feedback to your engineering / design people, but this is a feature that might be worth looking into - I see it as a big advantage for people with limited storage space, and there are not very many companies that offer it.

Gooserider

 

[kgreer]

I see your point. Out of curiousity, what kind of mechanism holds your beam down in the horizontal position for towing? is there a lock pin on the reservoir tank? Also, I was curious if you do any horizontal splitting or mostly vertical?

 

['bert]

BTW I have the new filter now, but they were sold out of the 0 -30 psi gauges. They are going to call when they come in. When would be the most accurate number to determine how dirty the filter is:

a) when the pump is running - no cylinder movement
b) when the cylinder is being retracted

I put a 0 - 100 psi gauge (readings may be questionable at the low end of the scale) on just see what it said, These 2 conditions gave different numbers, so which one do we want to know?

 

[LLigetfa]

When the valve is on open centre, the amount of oil pumped is the amount being returned through the filter. When the cylinder is being retracted, there is more oil returning than there is pumped due to the displacement of the ram. That explains the difference in readings. At some point, the filter's bypass valve will open if the filter is dirty enough to restrict the flow too much. That is what you want to avoid.

 

['bert]

I understand why there are different readings (I know there is extra oil coming out of the cylinder while it is being retracted), the question is, should the filter be able to handle this extra amount of oil or does the filter bypass open naturally (regardless of filter condition) during this time?

I guess all the readings assume that the filter & pump rate were matched properly at the start - hmmmm???

 

[Gooserider]

I see your point. Out of curiousity, what kind of mechanism holds your beam down in the horizontal position for towing? is there a lock pin on the reservoir tank? Also, I was curious if you do any horizontal splitting or mostly vertical?

Sorry for the delay in answering, I was having trouble getting my browser to work after doing some upgrading on my system...

I have a lock pin on the hydraulic tank which is fairly tall and narrow. On the top back end of the tank is the pivot bolt that connects the beam to the tank. Below that is a set of holes for a lock pin to hold the beam in vertical mode - I'm not sure how much this is really needed, but I use the pin as it seems to make the unit more stable when you have a round that slips off the platform and you find the whole machine lifting up as the wedge tries to push the round into the ground... If I pull this pin and lower the beam, there is a second set of lock pin holes to hold the beam down in horizontal position at the front end of the tank. Also on the front end is a prop leg that has a bolt that it pivots on, and a lock pin to hold it in either a down position to support the front of the splitter in either mode, or horizontal for towing. (If storing I would take the prop leg off to get the absolute smallest footprint, the splitter will stay in place fine w/o the leg if it isn't being used)

The horizontal shaft engine and pump sit on one side of the tank. I don't know if it would be much of an issue for towing, but the unit is slightly off-center - I would guess the center of the beam is about 6" to one side of the midpoint between the wheels. I haven't had reason to try towing my unit yet, I just push it around the yard by hand, but if I were, I might be inclined to try putting some bushings or equivalent at the pivot bolt as it seems like there is a lot of slop at that point. HF does warn you not to tow at more than 40mph, and there are "Not for Highway Use" stickers on the machine for whatever that is worth...

I do all my splitting in vertical mode thus far. I have used a horizontal Super-split type splitter, and I like being able to sit down a lot more... The only time I split standing is if I have a round so big that I can't move it around while sitting, in which case I still use vertical mode, but stand while I bust the round up into chunks that are small enough to handle when I sit back down...

Gooserider

 

[Gooserider]

I understand why there are different readings (I know there is extra oil coming out of the cylinder while it is being retracted), the question is, should the filter be able to handle this extra amount of oil or does the filter bypass open naturally (regardless of filter condition) during this time?

I guess all the readings assume that the filter & pump rate were matched properly at the start - hmmmm???

My guess is that the major concern number is with the valve in neutral - despite our best efforts, that is probably where the machine spends most of it's time...

As to whether it is naturally going to go into bypass when moving the cylinder, my guess is that it might, especially when retracting the cylinder on a higher volume pump. My reasoning is that in theory the pump on my machine is putting out a constant 16gpm in high volume range. The filter unit I have is rated to handle 20gpm, which is typical for most with 3/4" NPT connections from what I've seen. Thus in Neutral, you should have no problem. However there is an imbalance when pumping into the cylinder, as one side has a larger volume than the other because of the volume occupied by the piston rod. If you are moving down to split, you will be pumping into the larger empty volume of the top of the cylinder, while pushing the fluid out of the bottom side, which has a lower volume because of the rod displacement - again no problem...

Going the other way, however, there might be an issue... remember the top of the 5" cylinder has an area of 19.6" so it contains 19.6 cubic inches of fluid for every inch of travel. However the bottom has less volume of fluid because it is partly filled by the rod - assuming a 2" diameter rod, I get 16.4" - 19.6" - 3.14" for the area of the rod, or about 20% less... This is where my math gets a bit shaky, but it means that the piston will move further for each cubic inch of fluid pumped into the lower half of the cylinder, and push a correspondingly larger amount of fluid out the top half, which has to push through the return line and filter... I could easily see this exceeding the bypass pressure, especially as the filter starts to get closer to the change point. Bottom line, I think you will have a hard time not bypassing on the retract stroke, and would mostly worry about the watching the pressure when in neutral.

Gooserider

 

['bert]

I agree, I have a 10.6 gpm pump on my splitter and a 5 gal oil tank, therefore all the oil should get cycled through the filter twice per minute. So this is where I will be looking at the gauge. I will revive this as soon as the gauge comes in.

Goose, YOU had problems with your browser not working??? After all that windows bashing you have slipped in here and there. I thought Linux was the best thing ever ;-) (just bugging you)

I am surprised you bothered to fix it, this internet thing is just a fad, I don't know if it will even catch on.

 

[Gooserider]

I agree, I have a 10.6 gpm pump on my splitter and a 5 gal oil tank, therefore all the oil should get cycled through the filter twice per minute. So this is where I will be looking at the gauge. I will revive this as soon as the gauge comes in.

Goose, YOU had problems with your browser not working??? After all that windows bashing you have slipped in here and there. I thought Linux was the best thing ever ;-) (just bugging you)

I am surprised you bothered to fix it, this internet thing is just a fad, I don't know if it will even catch on.

I use Opera, on top of Linux, and when they went to the newest version they changed a dependency on one of the underlying libraries - it took a while to figure it out, especially as I'm also putting most of my attention on a couple of other projects, and hadn't made it as much of a priority.

Gooserider