HPBA?

[bholler]

How’s that?

You have repeatedly blamed the regulations when the problem is the manufacturers dragging their feet.

 

[webby3650]

You have repeatedly blamed the regulations when the problem is the manufacturers dragging their feet.

It’s a good thing you’re here to argue and call out anytime someone has a different viewpoint than you. As a non retailer I’m not sure you’ve got all the details of what’s actually going on within the industry.

 

[bholler]

It’s a good thing you’re here to argue and call out anytime someone has a different viewpoint than you. As a non retailer I’m not sure you’ve got all the details of what’s actually going on within the industry.

Just because I don't have a retail store does not mean I don't know what is going on

 

[ColdNorCal]

SBI Drolet, maybe other SBI brands also, have a couple pre-2020 epa stoves that are now 2020 epa compliant with the same btu rating and efficiency ratings as the pre-2020 epa version. I quickly reviewed one stove manual of both the pre 2020 and post 2020 epa version and it looks like only the hole size of the air tubes has changed.

I spoke with a different well known and mid/higher end, albeit smaller, manufacturer last year about the 2020 epa and their stoves. The senior tech/engineer said its no problem meeting the newer epa standards. Just a few minor tweaks is all thats needed.

From my limited exposure to 2020 epa stoves, it seems like no big deal. Then again, the stoves mentioned from both manufacturers are non-cat without any techie wizardry adjustments employed or complicated.

 

[begreen]

the stoves that do make it through will be different, controllability issues and self destruction is what I expect to see.

How is the Englander 30-NC hard to control or self-destructive? We have some hard to control stoves now on the market. Often times this is poor design that got rushed to market and not corrected.

I can see the concern for small retailers, though the changes were announced 4? yrs. ago? Still, I do share that concern. But to paint all new stoves coming down the pike in a negative light is incorrect. There will be some winners too.

 

[webby3650]

How is the Englander 30-NC hard to control or self-destructive? We have some hard to control stoves now on the market. Often times this is poor design that got rushed to market and not corrected.

I can see the concern for small retailers, though the changes were announced 4? yrs. ago? Still, I do share that concern. But to paint all new stoves coming down the pike in a negative light is incorrect. There will be some winners too.

No, some won’t change much at all. I’m speaking of these new designs that have had no real world testing. Reminiscent of last time that bholler speaks so fondly of, a lot of cats got stuck in current designs that had catastrophic cat failures. I’m concerned this will happen again. The NC-30 is known for big heat right? It’s certainly not known for controllable low output, only big heat. That’s how these non-cats are passing.

 

[webby3650]

I bought a cape cod from Lopi as soon as it came out. I was blown away with the tech! I had to have it! It self self-destructed within a season. I was offered 0 help from Travis, not even the engineers at the trade show. One of the biggest hitters in the market and they wouldn’t address the issue or stand behind their product. I’m afraid this will happen across the board because margins will be so low after all this goes down.

 

[bholler]

No, some won’t change much at all. I’m speaking of these new designs that have had no real world testing. Reminiscent of last time that bholler speaks so fondly of, a lot of cats got stuck in current designs that had catastrophic cat failures. I’m concerned this will happen again. The NC-30 is known for big heat right? It’s certainly not known for controllable low output, only big heat. That’s how these non-cats are passing.

Yes i am sure there will be some failures. That is inevitable. But didnt we end up with better stoves because of the last set of regulations?

 

[begreen]

No, some won’t change much at all. I’m speaking of these new designs that have had no real world testing. Reminiscent of last time that bholler speaks so fondly of, a lot of cats got stuck in current designs that had catastrophic cat failures. I’m concerned this will happen again. The NC-30 is known for big heat right? It’s certainly not known for controllable low output, only big heat. That’s how these non-cats are passing.

It's a very controllable stove that can produce big heat, but can also run at a steady 500º if desired. The point being, it easily passes 2020 requirements and does not self-destruct. As for cat stoves, what brand does the shop sell the most of? Do you anticipate that brand having major issues?

I’m afraid this will happen across the board because margins will be so low after all this goes down.

That seems unlikely. For example, did it happen with the Rockport that followed the Cape Cod?

 

[ColdNorCal]

No, some won’t change much at all. I’m speaking of these new designs that have had no real world testing. Reminiscent of last time that bholler speaks so fondly of, a lot of cats got stuck in current designs that had catastrophic cat failures. I’m concerned this will happen again. The NC-30 is known for big heat right? It’s certainly not known for controllable low output, only big heat. That’s how these non-cats are passing.

One interesting thing about the NC30 I noticed when researching stoves last year is the EPA list of compliant stoves states the NC30 producing only 12000 - 28,300k btu. 28,300 btu seems low considering the large 3.5 cu. ft firebox.

EPA Info:

England's Stove Works, Inc. 30-NC, 50-TNC30, 50-SNC30 1.6 12000-28300 Non Catalytic

 

[begreen]

One interesting thing about the NC30 I noticed when researching stoves last year is the EPA list of compliant stoves states the NC30 producing only 12000 - 28,300k btu. 28,300 btu seems low considering the large 3.5 cu. ft firebox.

England's Stove Works, Inc. 30-NC, 50-TNC30, 50-SNC30 1.6 12000-28300 Non Catalytic

That is with the EPA crib wood testing.

 

[ColdNorCal]

That is with the EPA crib wood testing.

So do they put in the same amount of crib wood for every stove? Trying to understand why a 2.4 cu ft firebox has 32,000 btu per the EPA and the 30NC 28300 btu with a 3.5 firebox?

Apologies if this derails the thread...

 

[Ludlow]

Like, the world is going to end in like 12 years anyway....like.

 

[webby3650]

It's a very controllable stove that can produce big heat, but can also run at a steady 500º if desired. The point being, it easily passes 2020 requirements and does not self-destruct. As for cat stoves, what brand does the shop sell the most of? Do you anticipate that brand having major issues?

That seems unlikely. For example, did it happen with the Rockport that followed the Cape Cod?

It’s a steel stove with a smaller firebox and different baffle design. No reports of failure yet. What about all the Cods out there with the old design and Chinese castings? Many have failed and were replaced at the expense of the dealer, Lopi won’t own it...
I’m not concerned with with current cat stoves. We only carry BK stoves with a cat because no others have proven to be durable enough. Most manufacturers are switching to a hybrid design, Adding a cat to a current stove.

 

[Ludlow]

I think stoves are clean enough now. Yes, the first EPA mandates did improve wood burning. Enough is enough. They will push it to the end until the entire endeavor is ruined. I think that is the agenda anyway, but that is a different forum.

 

[begreen]

So do they put in the same amount of crib wood for every stove? Trying to understand why a 2.4 cu ft firebox has 32,000 btu per the EPA and the 30NC 28300 btu with a 3.5 firebox?

Apologies if this derails the thread...

It's already been hijacked and off the tracks. I was just asking who is going to HPBA this year.

The volume of crib wood varies with the stove capacity. That is xx pounds of wood per cubic foot.

 

[webby3650]

It's already been hijacked and off the tracks. I was just asking who is going to HPBA this year.

The volume of crib wood varies with the stove capacity. That is xx pounds of wood per cubic foot.

I’ll have some intel, I’ll gladly share what is shareable.

 

[ColdNorCal]

It's already been hijacked and off the tracks. I was just asking who is going to HPBA this year.

.....

I am not going.

 

[jotulguy]

Ohh ya? Not a hybrid?

Not like you are currently familiar with... some new innovations that are very exciting!

 

[Highbeam]

Not like you are currently familiar with... some new innovations that are very exciting!

Bold new graphics? Bluetooth enabled? A built in usb teg iPhone charger?

I think that this 2020 step of emissions reduction is attainable with minimal effects to burners. As said, many of our favorite models already qualify. It’s the next step I’m worried about.

 

[bholler]

Bold new graphics? Bluetooth enabled? A built in usb teg iPhone charger?

I think that this 2020 step of emissions reduction is attainable with minimal effects to burners. As said, many of our favorite models already qualify. It’s the next step I’m worried about.

There really is very little push to get rid of woodstoves in the vast majority of the country.