How to release a cut tree that is leaning against one or more other trees

[bayshorecs]

No doubt the camera man was in the wrong place. The work was at least on the right side of the tree so he was not in the danger zone. If I recall, the other workers said no way to cutting the 2nd tree based on how it was leaning. But, Joe Cool decided he could do it while the other stood back and watched saying he was crazy.

The camera man was going for a shot and didn't realize what the tree could do and no one stopped him from being there. Blame all around on that one!

Good advice though. If you have a big tree that you can't safely fell, let the pros do it. I wouldn't try to cut one near a power line either. When the little voice in you says "Bad Idea!", listen to it!

 

[LLigetfa]

Even D8 dozers I worked around have a tail chain on the end of the winch cable. I've yet to see any winch that is 100% chain. Those that put a chain between two pieces of equipment and then take a run at it, earn their Darwin Award.

 

[bayshorecs]

I can tell you there isnt any famers around here that snach a tree a car out of the ditch ect. because when that chain breaks and there is someone aroud it is like a cannon shot people have been kill even with through a wind sheild.Most people around here, are or was a farmer at on point unless you live in a bigger city.Chains are use for dragging not snaching

Most farmers around here head to the shed, find the first thing laying around to use (chain, cable, strap, etc) and give it a try. Not saying that is a good idea, just what seems to happen.

Also, I don't think "popping" the chain or any cable/strap is a good idea. Hook up, take the slack out and pull. If it doesn't move, try a new angle. Getting a running start and yanking on it is a good way to break the cable/chain/truck/hitch/etc.

For example, say the truck can tow 3,000 lbs. That is pulling a constant 3,000 lbs. Getting a running start (say 3mph) on the slack until it hits full load on that 3,000 lbs is the equal to much more weight/stress on all of the equipment involved.

Maybe I will try to figure out the calcs...

 

[smokinj]

I can tell you there isnt any famers around here that snach a tree a car out of the ditch ect. because when that chain breaks and there is someone aroud it is like a cannon shot people have been kill even with through a wind sheild.Most people around here, are or was a farmer at on point unless you live in a bigger city.Chains are use for dragging not snaching

Most farmers around here head to the shed, find the first thing laying around to use (chain, cable, strap, etc) and give it a try. Not saying that is a good idea, just what seems to happen.

Also, I don't think "popping" the chain or any cable/strap is a good idea. Hook up, take the slack out and pull. If it doesn't move, try a new angle. Getting a running start and yanking on it is a good way to break the cable/chain/truck/hitch/etc.

For example, say the truck can tow 3,000 lbs. That is pulling a constant 3,000 lbs. Getting a running start (say 3mph) on the slack until it hits full load on that 3,000 lbs is the equal to much more weight/stress on all of the equipment involved.

Maybe I will try to figure out the calcs...

ok I under stand what your saying, but if i ever got caught snatching with a chain my dad would have beat me with that chain until it broke on me! (lots of accdents in the 78's blazard pulling people out ditchs) and if you use the strap to drag with then the strap wears into

 

[billb3]

I just had a double leaner: red oak snapped about 10 feet up, grabbed a pine tree on its way down about 10 feet up, and both wedged into a hemlock with two tops fork. Storm damage. Interesting mess. Not much room to work.
With a 28 foot ladder I was able to cut the leaners close to the fork and then with a long pole wedge the trunk of the leaner away from the fork of the hemlock. Cutting away the excess meant I could do it by hand rather than try to use a truck or tractor to pull.
I'm not a fan of using equipment like vehicles to pull leaners out, they can roll and do unexpected damaging things.
Even with using a pole for leverage I left myself plenty of running room for rolling. Either from its own weight/mass or from skipping down other branches.

I had to spend a whole Sunday afternoon cleaning up all the widowmakers before I could even get the ladder up into the mess and start working on the fork.
Lots of hand cutting with a bow saw and pull back saw. They come in handy.


Chains and cables have pull ratings.
If you don't know what a cable or chain is rated for don't use it.

One of the first videos they often show inductees in the Navy or Coast Gaurd is someone getting cut in half by a parting big ship rope.

 

[dj2cohen]

That even sounds like a huge mess Bill, let alone to see it. Glad it all went well and you are here to tell us about it.

 

[bayshorecs]

I can tell you there isnt any famers around here that snach a tree a car out of the ditch ect. because when that chain breaks and there is someone aroud it is like a cannon shot people have been kill even with through a wind sheild.Most people around here, are or was a farmer at on point unless you live in a bigger city.Chains are use for dragging not snaching

Most farmers around here head to the shed, find the first thing laying around to use (chain, cable, strap, etc) and give it a try. Not saying that is a good idea, just what seems to happen.

Also, I don't think "popping" the chain or any cable/strap is a good idea. Hook up, take the slack out and pull. If it doesn't move, try a new angle. Getting a running start and yanking on it is a good way to break the cable/chain/truck/hitch/etc.

For example, say the truck can tow 3,000 lbs. That is pulling a constant 3,000 lbs. Getting a running start (say 3mph) on the slack until it hits full load on that 3,000 lbs is the equal to much more weight/stress on all of the equipment involved.

Maybe I will try to figure out the calcs...

I *think* these are the calcs not taking into account friction (which would increase the numbers):

For the car from 0 to 3mph in 1 second test:

Vo = Starting speed = 0
Vf = Ending speed = 3mph (1.341 m/s)
m = Weight=3,000 lbs (1360 kg)
t = 1 second

a = (Vf - Vo)/t
a = (1.341m/s - 0)/1s
a = 1.341 m/s^2

F = m * a
F = 1360 kg * 1.341m/s^2 = 1823N=409pounds-force=409 ft/lbs of torque to get the car moving to 3mph in 1 second from a dead stop

Using a 30,000 tree makes it around 4100 ft/lb of torque to get the tree moving to 3mph in 1 second from a dead stop

Don't know about you, but 4100 ft/lb of force in 1 second on any cable/chain/hitch/etc is a lot.

Now if you knew the tensile strength of the cable/strap/chain you are using, you could figure out what the breaking point is.

Hope this is right. It has been a long time since I did any physics!

 

[Malatesta]

[quote author="billb3" date="1230591223"]I just had a double leaner: red oak snapped about 10 feet up, grabbed a pine tree on its way down about 10 feet up, and both wedged into a hemlock with two tops fork. Storm damage. Interesting mess. Not much room to work.
With a 28 foot ladder I was able to cut the leaners close to the fork and then with a long pole wedge the trunk of the leaner away from the fork of the hemlock. Cutting away the excess meant I could do it by hand rather than try to use a truck or tractor to pull.
I'm not a fan of using equipment like vehicles to pull leaners out, they can roll and do unexpected damaging things.
Even with using a pole for leverage I left myself plenty of running room for rolling. Either from its own weight/mass or from skipping down other branches.







Bill i hope you were tied in with saddle and safety lines ??? ,this is my point ladders and tree's dont mix . 28 ft in the air and no safety lines, lanyard ? Bill supose the tree give way when your on the ladder or the ladder gives way.

I am glad everything went well for you but your very lucky no one or yourself got hurt.

 

[Malatesta]

The camera man had no business being anywhere close to that worker.

That is exactly our point. The camera man was nowhere close to that worker. The camera man was about 20' behind the butt end of the leaning tree. No one had any idea that the thing would swing around like it did.

Thats my point ,probably unprofessional or beginers. No one should be in the circular radius of the height of the tree be felled.

 

[smokinj]

The camera man had no business being anywhere close to that worker.

That is exactly our point. The camera man was nowhere close to that worker. The camera man was about 20' behind the butt end of the leaning tree. No one had any idea that the thing would swing around like it did.

Thats my point ,probably unprofessional or beginers. No one should be in the circular radius of the height of the tree be felled.

ok, can you or do you know a quick way to tell how far the tree might land?

 

[Malatesta]

Well there many different ways to determine a trees height 1st.

There are various tools and instruments to help determine a tree's height. One very handy field technique is the stick method. Hold a straight stick such that the distance from your eye to your hand equals the distance from your hand to the top of the stick. Hold your arm horizontally and the stick vertically. Walk forward or back until the distance from your hand to the top of the stick is proportional to the distance from the felling cut to the top of the tree. This will be the approximate point where the top of the tree will land. If the tree is not truly vertical and/or the ground is not level, adjustments need to be made. Adjustments need to be made for sloping grades and you must be able to see the true top of the tree.


Another similar measuring method takes place off to the side of the tree and back so you can see the top of the tree. Using the stick, held at arm's length, measure the height of the tree and rotating the stick parallel to the ground, notice where the top of the tree will land.


No matter what method you use, you must use it regularly in order to learn how to use it well and correct for the variables, especially in tight situations.

 

[bayshorecs]

Most large trees around here are 50-70' tall. Rare few are around 100'+. I at least double that when planning the area.

 

[smokinj]

Well there many different ways to determine a trees height 1st.

There are various tools and instruments to help determine a tree's height. One very handy field technique is the stick method. Hold a straight stick such that the distance from your eye to your hand equals the distance from your hand to the top of the stick. Hold your arm horizontally and the stick vertically. Walk forward or back until the distance from your hand to the top of the stick is proportional to the distance from the felling cut to the top of the tree. This will be the approximate point where the top of the tree will land. If the tree is not truly vertical and/or the ground is not level, adjustments need to be made. Adjustments need to be made for sloping grades and you must be able to see the true top of the tree.


Another similar measuring method takes place off to the side of the tree and back so you can see the top of the tree. Using the stick, held at arm's length, measure the height of the tree and rotating the stick parallel to the ground, notice where the top of the tree will land.


No matter what method you use, you must use it regularly in order to learn how to use it well and correct for the variables, especially in tight situations.

"""Hold your arm horizontally and the stick vertically. Walk forward or back until the distance from your hand to the top of the stick is proportional to the distance from the felling cut to the top of the tree. This will be the approximate point where the top of the tree will land""" Very good i use this on every tree I fell and it works well good to know this before you get started! Iam Impressed! people think iam crazy when i do this but it is on the money!

 

[bayshorecs]

Well there many different ways to determine a trees height 1st.

There are various tools and instruments to help determine a tree's height. One very handy field technique is the stick method. Hold a straight stick such that the distance from your eye to your hand equals the distance from your hand to the top of the stick. Hold your arm horizontally and the stick vertically. Walk forward or back until the distance from your hand to the top of the stick is proportional to the distance from the felling cut to the top of the tree. This will be the approximate point where the top of the tree will land. If the tree is not truly vertical and/or the ground is not level, adjustments need to be made. Adjustments need to be made for sloping grades and you must be able to see the true top of the tree.

Nice trick using similar triangles. Never thought of that. Thanks!

 

[LLigetfa]

You can also measure the height with your hand or any sized stick at arm's length and then just rotate your wrist 90 degrees, and that becomes the horizontal distance.

 

[SAABMaven]

Folks,

Thanks so much for your wisdom and experience. Perhaps the DPO was wise to simply leave the leaner alone, for bats to eventually nest in the holes that develop in the wood

Actually did contact a couple of tree firms. One showed up and the amount of money that I was quoted, would buy me two cords of seasoned maple, split & delivered. I'll have another look and report on this thread, how it goes.

Cheers !
Rob