How many people, still burn firewood in their pre epa wood burning stove ?

[Eman85]

The reason I asked, is because I still see people using them. The question for you is , why haven’t you switched over to a epa wood burning stove yet.. I will love to hear your feedback on this

My stove is an old Defiant Encore over 35yo but it does have a catalyst. I have lookedd at newer stoves but like most things the gov't gets involved with and things that become trendy the prices are pretty high.
I guess it's a lot like the same reason people buy older farm tractors and why older diesel pickups command high prices. Many times it goes back to the old adage of simplest is best. Old stove you light fire and feed it when it needs it and you clean the chimney, simple to understand and operate. Old truck or tractor you start it and run it and change the oil and filters, simple to understand and operate. New truck or tractor lights on dash come on and everyone scratches their heads and guesses at stupid expensive parts including the trained technicians with the expensive tools and equipment.

 

[begreen]

The Defiant cat is the result of EPA regs. Sounds like they worked out pretty well in this case.

 

[Eman85]

The Defiant cat is the result of EPA regs. Sounds like they worked out pretty well in this case.

Yes and no, I've burned without the cat or with a dead cat for years at a time. Stove is finicky to say the least with the cat working. VC known for their back puffs when the cat is engaged. I can get low long burns with the cat but can also have the cat go wild and be hard to control at times. It's a love hate relationship with the stove.

 

[begreen]

Yes, they were not VC's shining hour. There are much better operating modern stoves.

 

[coal and wood man]

Only burn dry hardwood and burn it hot then you are burning it clean.

 

[bholler]

Only burn dry hardwood and burn it hot then you are burning it clean.

Well to an extent. No matter what an old stove with no secondary combustion will never burn as clean as a modern one. And there is absolutely no problem with soft woods

 

[Itslay90]

You got a good deal. I bought our Resolute when that model first came out and it was $495. That was more money than I had ever paid for anything back then. Including my car. I think the higher price must have been due to shipping costs to the west coast. Loved that stove.

I was talking to the person that I bought my house from. He told me. The Timberline they said used 7-8 cords of firewood per year, I had to look at him, because I don’t even have that stove in my house anymore, and I’m pretty sure there’s no way I be going thru all that wood like that. It seems like the Timberline was one 40 percent efficiency

 

[fbelec]

And there is absolutely no problem with soft woods

right. i burnt pine in my defiant and had no problems with creosote

 

[LDPosse]

That stove does not meet current standards. For its day it was absolutely one of the best. But not up to modern standards at all

Actually, the FA264CCL does still meet EPA standards, with 1.6g/hr emissions. Not as good as some modern EPA cat stoves, but still comfortably within the current limits.

 

[Todd]

I always liked the looks of that stove

 

[bholler]

Actually, the FA264CCL does still meet EPA standards, with 1.6g/hr emissions. Not as good as some modern EPA cat stoves, but still comfortably within the current limits.

View attachment 319645

Using the old testing standards yes it's that low. But it hasn't been tested with the current procedures so it doesn't meet current standards

 

[LDPosse]

I always liked the looks of that stove

I found a never-fired 1986 model FA264CCL last year. We installed it in our new addition, and had our first fire on 12/31/22. It fits beautifully into the decor of our home.

 

[stufus]

I think the simplest answer to the OP's question is, quite simply, cost. We have 2 pre EPA stoves (Jotul 118 & VC Defiant II). The Defiant was paid for 40 years ago and the 118 was free. We use ~5 cords / year to heat a 1700 sq ft ranch, half of which has 13 foot ceilings.

Perhaps our wood consumption would drop by a cord / year with a new stove but we already have more than enough timber on the property. Trying to manage a healthy sugarbush requires constant upkeep and we often have excess wood just from clearing snags and thinning. The splitter, tractor, and chainsaws are all paid for and the fuel / wear & tear cost of processing ~1 cord / year would take many years to cover the price of a decent EPA stove.

Other than gaskets every 8-10 years, the old stoves don't cost anything in upkeep. Perhaps if one needed parts, things would be reconsidered. For now, we enjoy the process of forest management and inevitably have excess wood. So for us, the incentive is just not there to drop $2k+ on a new stove when we have 2 stoves that have years of life left in them.

Additionally, all our wood is cut at 24". There are not many modern stoves that can easily handle that size log. If our consumption dropped from 5 cords to 4 cords, but we had to cut the wood to 20", there would be no net savings in the number of individual logs processed. If the wood was cut at 18", this would actually require more individual logs to be cut / split / stacked. Just food for thought.

 

[danrclem]

I have a Fisher Grandpa Bear that I bought new in about 1979 or 1980. It's always kept me warm even in temperatures way below 0. I really haven't ever thought about replacing it until recently. I ordered a Drolet HT-3000 the other day and I'm hoping it'll keep me warm with less wood.

I'll hang on to my old Fisher until I know I'll be satisfied with the new stove.

 

[stufus]

I have a Fisher Grandpa Bear that I bought new in about 1979 or 1980. It's always kept me warm even in temperatures way below 0. I really haven't ever thought about replacing it until recently. I ordered a Drolet HT-3000 the other day and I'm hoping it'll keep me warm with less wood.

I'll hang on to my old Fisher until I know I'll be satisfied with the new stove.

Keep us updated. Those old Fishers are awesome!

We have neighbors with a massive 1850s farm house (virtually uninsulated, 3 stories, on a granite foundation). They use 2 Papa Bears to heat the whole place. They run both stoves during the whole heating season and go through some serious wood...their woodshed holds 12 cords and sometimes that's not enough!

Those stoves were installed in the 1970s and have seen unbelievable use / abuse (they consistently run them at 700+°) and are both chugging along to this day. Always been impressed with the insane durability of the Fishers!

 

[Duds13]

I still burn this bad boy in my sugar house during maple syrup season. Have to heat the sugar house up prior to firing up the evaporator otherwise it will rain!

I have the same stove in the man cave in the barn too, only with glass on the doors.

 

[stufus]

I still burn this bad boy in my sugar house during maple syrup season. Have to heat the sugar house up prior to firing up the evaporator otherwise it will rain!

I have the same stove in the man cave in the barn too, only with glass on the doors.

View attachment 320755

Fancy! I just rely on the evaporator to heat up the sugar house. An excuse to buy another stove...I like it.

 

[Duds13]

Fancy! I just rely on the evaporator to heat up the sugar house. An excuse to buy another stove...I like it.

Stove was already in the sugar house when we bought the property!!

 

[Pinesmoke]

I left my 2000ish VC Dutch West large non-cat in our house we sold to my parents this spring. It rocks the place. I tested a cold no power scenario. It was -20 for 3 days. I turned off the ceiling fans and tossed wood at her. 1800 ft ranch was toasty in the center and 45 in the extreme corners. That side and 6 cords good ash I know they will be warm. I'll take it out when they are done with the place.


Someone said hot fires are good? We were covered up with ash and hedge.

 

[bigealta]

I think the simplest answer to the OP's question is, quite simply, cost. We have 2 pre EPA stoves (Jotul 118 & VC Defiant II). The Defiant was paid for 40 years ago and the 118 was free. We use ~5 cords / year to heat a 1700 sq ft ranch, half of which has 13 foot ceilings.

Perhaps our wood consumption would drop by a cord / year with a new stove but we already have more than enough timber on the property. Trying to manage a healthy sugarbush requires constant upkeep and we often have excess wood just from clearing snags and thinning. The splitter, tractor, and chainsaws are all paid for and the fuel / wear & tear cost of processing ~1 cord / year would take many years to cover the price of a decent EPA stove.

Other than gaskets every 8-10 years, the old stoves don't cost anything in upkeep. Perhaps if one needed parts, things would be reconsidered. For now, we enjoy the process of forest management and inevitably have excess wood. So for us, the incentive is just not there to drop $2k+ on a new stove when we have 2 stoves that have years of life left in them.

Additionally, all our wood is cut at 24". There are not many modern stoves that can easily handle that size log. If our consumption dropped from 5 cords to 4 cords, but we had to cut the wood to 20", there would be no net savings in the number of individual logs processed. If the wood was cut at 18", this would actually require more individual logs to be cut / split / stacked. Just food for thought.

Well that 118 is still a good stove, and the defiant is a beast. If i were to let 1 go it would be the defiant.

 

[stufus]

Well that 118 is still a good stove, and the defiant is a beast. If i were to let 1 go it would be the defiant.

Love them both honestly...it's hard for me to pick a favorite. Love the simplicity, efficiency, and shockingly long burn times of the Jotul. Also love the looks of the Defiant and the massive heat output...it has absolutely no issue keeping the house ~75°F above the ambient temp outside and still burning through the night. Another plus for the Defiant is the "set and forget" output. Having spent time with several stoves that have thermostatic controls, the Defiant's seems the most responsive and consistent. Wherever it's set, it will burn a full load of wood with very minimal temperature variation until there's just a good bed of coals remaining.

But the 118 is a great stove and uses half the wood of the Defiant. I must confess that we did pick up a second 118 for our old hunting camp (hard to pass up for $150).

Honestly, they work great as a 2 stove solution. We use the 118 in the shoulder seasons and down to outside temps in the 20s. Once it's hitting teens at night or not breaking freezing during the day, we switch to the Defiant. On some "real" cold days (-10°F or lower), we'll have both stoves going.

Our oil furnace was finally replaced a few weeks ago so this will be the first winter in 4 years that we have backup. Didn't miss it unless we were leaving for the weekend. Would pack both stoves to the top and could get away for a couple days without worrying about pipes freezing...will be nice to have the freedom to take off for longer now.

 

[DonTee]

I found a never-fired 1986 model FA264CCL last year. We installed it in our new addition, and had our first fire on 12/31/22. It fits beautifully into the decor of our home.

View attachment 319651

My dad has one of these stoves. He loves it. He’s always looking on FBM and Craigslist for a lower hour stove (or new like yours) to replace his. It seems that they sell pretty quickly when posted

I sweep his chimney every year and it’s a very clean burning stove.

 

[danrclem]

Keep us updated. Those old Fishers are awesome!

We have neighbors with a massive 1850s farm house (virtually uninsulated, 3 stories, on a granite foundation). They use 2 Papa Bears to heat the whole place. They run both stoves during the whole heating season and go through some serious wood...their woodshed holds 12 cords and sometimes that's not enough!

Those stoves were installed in the 1970s and have seen unbelievable use / abuse (they consistently run them at 700+°) and are both chugging along to this day. Always been impressed with the insane durability of the Fishers!

The only complaint that I have with the Fisher is the amount of wood it uses. It still has the original paint even though it's faded and the original firebrick. I think the new stove will keep me warm but if it doesn't, I won't hesitate to hook the Fisher back up.

 

[TWoods]

Overall, I view pre epa stoves like a classic car that can be enjoyed with a highball and friends. To me, it also just seems wasteful to throw out something just because it is old or not the top efficiency. It costs energy to make new things all things considered and it is still better to burn wood than oil. I personally enjoy keeping them running and they are pretty forgiving too with the type of wood you burn (doesn't have to be super super dry). Just my two cents.

Cheers,

 

[kborndale]

Overall, I view pre epa stoves like a classic car that can be enjoyed with a highball and friends. To me, it also just seems wasteful to throw out something just because it is old or not the top efficiency. It costs energy to make new things all things considered and it is still better to burn wood than oil. I personally enjoy keeping them running and they are pretty forgiving too with the type of wood you burn (doesn't have to be super super dry). Just my two cents.

Cheers,

Yes, classic cars are great and I love them, but I wouldn't want one for my daily driver.