Hooking up the Quadrafire 7100 and heat zone kit

[humpin iron]

Sorry I am late to the party and am going to be a wet blanket but.........I have installed approx 50 7100's. Your install has many issues, 1) can NOT use mylar duct for OAK to chimney, must be metal. 2) MUST-MUST-MUST use full B-vent for heat zone kit. In testing at 20+ feet away the duct got over 220 degrees, that lead to the requirement of B-vent. 3) Heat zone kit is fan dependant, if you didn't get the fan kit then you didn't get the full heat zone kit, duct work CAN NOT go down, if you lose power and run the stove the duct will overheat and cause a fire, this problem is make far worse if you did not use full b-vent. Please go back and restudy the duct design in the LATEST install manual for a 7100. All duct work must be horizontal or up, never down! 4) The octogon elec box on the back wall must be moved, it is illegal to bury any elec box that can not be accessed. 5) All of that b-vent must have 1" of clearance to combustables. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. Please restudy the install manual.

 

[ymurf]

Sorry I am late to the party and am going to be a wet blanket but.........I have installed approx 50 7100's. Your install has many issues, 1) can NOT use mylar duct for OAK to chimney, must be metal. 2) MUST-MUST-MUST use full B-vent for heat zone kit. In testing at 20+ feet away the duct got over 220 degrees, that lead to the requirement of B-vent. 3) Heat zone kit is fan dependant, if you didn't get the fan kit then you didn't get the full heat zone kit, duct work CAN NOT go down, if you lose power and run the stove the duct will overheat and cause a fire, this problem is make far worse if you did not use full b-vent. Please go back and restudy the duct design in the LATEST install manual for a 7100. All duct work must be horizontal or up, never down! 4) The octogon elec box on the back wall must be moved, it is illegal to bury any elec box that can not be accessed. 5) All of that b-vent must have 1" of clearance to combustables. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. Please restudy the install manual.

So I need to get the metal flex for the cold air on the chimney?
Was wondering if I could run metal flex on the turn to go down.Seen others on here do it.So I should buy B-Vent elbows?
On the heat zone manual I downloaded they show ways to run the duct and they have a picture of a duct going down to a lower level? Is this not right? Here is the link.
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...DMESt8kpTGkk2-3gPzIdcYw&bvm=bv.41248874,d.aWM

 

[ymurf]

Anyone check the link with the heat zone manual? Looks like a duct going downstairs. If this is dangerous I will remove the heat zone kit.

 

[Village Idiot]

It looks like you have found another inconsistency in the Quadra-Fire 7100 documentation. You found an issue with the instructions for the OAK (https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/questions-for-quadrafire-7100-owners.101715/#post-1311632).

At this point, I would suggest reaching out to the manufacturer for the definitive answer on how to run the heat zone ducting. Do what they say and have the confidence that your install is correct. Go out on your own and you are on your own.

Other than that one image you show (found in both the heat zone manual and the 7100 install manual), I cannot find any others that show them running down. Here are screen grabs from the Quadra-Fire 710 promotional brochures. The newer one shows just the heat zone ducts. Neither show running the heat zone ducting to a lower level. The blue ducting in the older image is the cold air return (B1, B2) and the OAK (D).

 

[ymurf]

It looks like you have found another inconsistency in the Quadra-Fire 7100 documentation. You found an issue with the instructions for the OAK (https://www.hearth.com/talk/threads/questions-for-quadrafire-7100-owners.101715/#post-1311632).

At this point, I would suggest reaching out to the manufacturer for the definitive answer on how to run the heat zone ducting. Do what they say and have the confidence that your install is correct. Go out on your own and you are on your own.

Other than that one image you show (found in both the heat zone manual and the 7100 install manual), I cannot find any others that show them running down. Here are screen grabs from the Quadra-Fire 710 promotional brochures. The newer one shows just the heat zone ducts. Neither show running the heat zone ducting to a lower level. The blue ducting in the older image is the cold air return (B1, B2) and the OAK (D).


View attachment 90090View attachment 90091

Who would I contact for a final answer on this? Hearth and home?

 

[ymurf]

I sent Hearth and Home an e-mail on this question. Ill let you know what they say if I hear back.

 

[ymurf]

I got an e-mail back from hearth and home.Looks like it is fine to run a heat zone kit down.Here is what they e-mailed me.

Thank you for your inquiry.

Because we want your appliance to be installed safely and according to the
correct installation specifications, local and national codes, we recommend
that you work with your local dealer. Addressing very specific dimensions
and clearance requirements can be difficult by phone and email.

Yes, you may run your HEAT-ZONE-WOOD down.

Your local dealer can best meet your needs based on your specifications and
home. We ask that your dealer contact us if further assistance is needed.

For assistance finding a local dealer click on link below:

United States & Canada:

Harman: (broken link removed to http://www.harmanstoves.com/wheretobuy.asp)

Heatilator: http://www.heatilator.com/dealerLocator/USCanada.asp

Heat & Glo: http://www.heatnglo.com

Quadra-Fire:Internal Code: CSDL

 

[iron]

How is the auxiliary return air ducting to the basement working? I can see that you have the return air lever in aux mode.

^ ditto

 

[ymurf]

^ ditto

I used it all last winter like that and had good results. Seemed to circulate the air pretty good and on real cold days I would kick my furnace on just the blower and it circulated even better.

 

[Village Idiot]

Sorry of the late reply. I have been traveling a lot.

So, how does the AUX air return ducting to the basement work? Meh. It does not help warm the basement. Which is the expected behavior since warm air does not like to go down. However, after some testing, I would say that it does give me a little boost. The basement seems to stay around 64-65 with the air on the AUX setting and 60 with it in the normal setting pulling air from the vent in the bottom of the fireplace.

 

[ymurf]

Sorry of the late reply. I have been traveling a lot.

So, how does the AUX air return ducting to the basement work? Meh. It does not help warm the basement. Which is the expected behavior since warm air does not like to go down. However, after some testing, I would say that it does give me a little boost. The basement seems to stay around 64-65 with the air on the AUX setting and 60 with it in the normal setting pulling air from the vent in the bottom of the fireplace.

The idea of it is the heat zone duct puts heated air to the basement that the aux return takes.

 

[Village Idiot]

The idea of it is the heat zone duct puts heated air to the basement that the aux return takes.

Understood. But, after researching the reported effectiveness of the heat zone kits and knowing that heat excited about moving down, I opted to just do the return AUX air to the basement. I preferred to keep the heat in the main living areas of the house.

Once the fire is going, a convection loop starts that moves the warm air to the upstairs and brings the cold air down. It has worked out well enough that the temperature difference between the downstairs and the upstairs room furthest from the fireplace is only 4 degrees.

 

[iron]

pardon my ignorance (still new to this stuff): where does the AUX air return normally get installed for this unit?

i will be having a heat n glow northstar installed in 2+ weeks, also with the heat zone kit to the basement. so, this is of great interest to me

 

[Village Idiot]

Look at the first picture in post #29. The AUX air return options are the blue ductwork labeled B1 and B2.

The recommended heat zone locating options are in purple and labeled C. Note that I said "recommended" since the diagram is from the install manual for the QF 7100 and those are the recommended options in it. Earlier someone said that they contacted Hearth & Home and they said you could run your heat zone down. You get to decide how you want your heat zones installed as long as it is according to code to keep the insurance folks happy.

 

[iron]

thanks. it looks like B2 is either going to another room or drawing outside air. i guess in my mind, i'm just making sure that you don't need to use outside air like with fireplaceX and posi-pressure systems.

if you're given a choice (within the code or MFR's recommendations) to source your air far from the unit, that seems like it would promote the best kind of air circulation, correct? you went down to your basement and presumably placed both the heat zone supply and make-up vents at or near the floor, correct???

 

[Village Idiot]

First, I opted to not install heat zones and it worked out well for us. We designed our house with the fireplace in mind. Natural convection moves the heat better than we could have hoped. Your situation may be different.

My goal for running the return air to the basement was to ultimately run the duct to another location on the main level with the fireplace to better circulate the air. But, our floorpan ended up being such that it was not needed.

 

[iron]

so do you, or others, think it would make more sense to just do one or the other if going to a basement? either, run the return air to the basement OR the heat zone? would doing both be incrementally better or would it negate the circulation of cold-to-warm?

 

[iron]

also, i just looked at the installation instructions for the heat n glow northstar (my eventual unit) that is supposedly very similar to the 7100. it looks like they do not have B1 and B2 diagrammed anywhere. it only appears to have one option for the outside air kit.

i talked with my future installer and he said that they will need to install the air kit to the outside to meet code. so, is it not possible for me to also have a cold air return in the basement? is there only source of supply air?

 

[Village Idiot]

I am not sure I can give a good answer to your question on the efficacy of running the return air and/or a heat zone down to the basement. I can only say that running the return air to the basement hasn't really done much for me. Since my installer did not charge me extra for it, I am out nothing hence my earlier statement of "Meh."

In the diagram I have been referencing, D is the outside air kit. The remote air return is a separate duct. It sounds like you are quickly approaching the point I was at when talking to my installer. After having poured over the installation instructions multiple times, I knew way more about the product and installation options than they did. It took a lot of patient insistence that I was correct and sitting with them to show them what I was saying. Ultimately they admitted that I was more knowledgeable about the options and took my word for it.

I made sure that I was home during the installation so I could answer their questions and interpret the installation manual for them. I also insisted on running the wiring for the blower and switches since I used to do electrical work in a former life.

At this point, my best advice is for you to become an expert on your fireplace, the installation manual, and any code issues that you may encounter. Then take the time to convince your installer that you know what you are talking about and insist on getting the install the way you want it. (As long as you are complying with code.) Then be there during the installation. The workmen doing the install, were all to ready to give up on the specialized install options and give up.

 

[mminor]

Hi Iron - congrats on your Northstar purchase - I will most likely be getting one as well. Members have nothing but positive feedback about this ZC fireplace, so I don't think we'll be disappointed.

As far as chimney pipe, are you going with the SL300 or the Duravent DuraPlus triple wall?

Thanks,
Matt

 

[iron]

i wish i had an answer to that. i'm going with whatever the installer is bringing! his default answer is to use what's in the installation manual. the manual shows SL300 series pipes. do you think the duravent triple wall is better?

 

[mminor]

The Northstar manual says there are only two options for chimney pipe with this unit - SL300 or the DuraPlus triple wall.

I believe the DuraPlus is better chimney pipe because it is insulated better (one layer of insulation and one layer of cooled air) - it'd be great if the experts could chime in. But how much better versus the air cooled SL300 I'm not sure. And one thing is certain - the DuraPlus is quite substantially more expensive which is why most installers (and customers) go with the SL300 I would imagine. One other point to note is the DuraPlus will use more real estate in the chimney chase. The Northstar uses an 8-inch pipe and the DuraPlus's 8-inch pipe comes out to 12-inches in 'total diameter' because of the added layer of insulation....if that makes any sense.

You can search 'SL300' and I think you will find many others have used it with good success so I wouldn't get too worked up about it.

Congrats again on your Northstar and take some pictures for us on the forum!

Matt

 

[kst8er]

I used it all last winter like that and had good results. Seemed to circulate the air pretty good and on real cold days I would kick my furnace on just the blower and it circulated even better.

ymurf, after running at least part of another winter, are you still happy with the heat zone setup in the basement? I'm considering a Quad 7100, and like you, I'd like to run a heat zone to the basement, directly below the fireplace. I would likely pull the aux air from the basement as well.

 

[jad5805]

This Forum has been very helpful. I purchased a 7100 and am having it installed shortly in new construction. I asked the installer and he thought the Heat Zone right to the basement would not make much of a difference vs. not having it done at all. Does anyone else have any feedback on whether this would be worthwhile?

 

[begreen]

How large is the basement area to be heated? How well insulated is it?