Homes printed from wood waste

[GrumpyDad]

Couldn't the same be said for wood framing, plywood, OSB, beadboard, etc?

It's ALARMING how quickly the materials in a house can turn a blaze. I paneled a 26x24 room, and throw scraps in the fire. They light off immediately.
If they can figure out a way to safely (including toxins from off gasing) 3d print a house, man I would be one of the first in line to at least try out a shed or something

 

[SpaceBus]

It's ALARMING how quickly the materials in a house can turn a blaze. I paneled a 26x24 room, and throw scraps in the fire. They light off immediately.
If they can figure out a way to safely (including toxins from off gasing) 3d print a house, man I would be one of the first in line to at least try out a shed or something

I agree, there must be VOCs coming off the structure after being printed. However, I wonder if production and assembly is slow enough that everything finishes gassing by the time a customer takes delivery. If you are fine with paneling, then I don't think the 3d printed wood materials offer any additional fire risk.

 

[Max W]

I am a graduate of their engineering school years ago so I get the Alumni magazine plus read the Bangor Daily. U Maine has always had some smart professors that were given the latitude to do a lot of things like Dick Hill who invented and developed the "worlds most efficient" boiler around 45 years ago that really has not been matched. When I attended, the graduate programs were poorly funded and not many 4 year folks went on to graduate school (except the chemical engineers) as the school of engineering was regarded and funded as a feeder program to industry in Maine, particularly the pulp and paper industry. I caught the tail end of the long run of pulp and paper calling the shots and once their influence diminished, the graduate program got built up, attracting new professors and the state started funding some major R&D infrastructure. They also finally got around to building a new engineering school complex recently.

BTW when I attended UMaine was coming off yearsh of being mostly a party school. Maine's drinking age had been 18 and pot laws were a misdemeanor in Maine, while it was criminal offense in Mass and NH (and a lot of other states. It got and lived up to its rep as party school for out of staters. Maine upped the drinking age and cracked down on partying and it slowly lost the party school rep.

I used to have to walk across the entire campus every day in the winter and would have to thaw out my LCD calculator when I got to class. UMaine is on an island in the Penobscot river and in the winter the cold air from Northern Maine drains down the Penobscot River and after a clear night its usually the coldest place around.

There were many Saturday mornings when I would listen to Dick Hill on Tom Gocze’s Hot and Cold radio show. I know I gained from his knowledge and wisdom. One thingI have used a number of times was from his work and advice on frost heaving and simple ways to mitigate it. I can almost hear that calm, even voice as I write.

 

[KDubU]

I am going to checkout these homes as I think it’s really cool. This coming from a guy who built a straw bale house back in the late 90’s.

 

[Ashful]

This is an interesting program being tested in Maine. I like the aesthetics more than 3D-printed cement homes. It's an interesting plan to turn waste into resource.

See what it's like living inside a 3D-printed 600-square-foot tiny home in Maine made of recyclable materials

The printing material was made with wood waste from local sawmills encapsulated in a bio-resin, creating a fully bio-based tiny home.

www.businessinsider.com

It took only half a day, a crane, bolts, and connectors to assemble the four modules into this home. The electrician had it connected and wired together in 2 hrs.

Very cool! But they didn't make any mention of 1) cost projections, or 2) energy usage during fabrication. It's stated that they think this could be a solution for low-income housing needs, but I imagine the cost of 3D printing houses MUST be higher than factory-manufactured homes, and likely always will be? Also, if this is being sold on a waste usage/environmental angle, there should be more discussion of energy usage, and trade-off against other uses for this waste (incineration, recycling, etc.).

The loss rate for homes with home sprinklers is incredibly low. The trade off is they are expensive to install so tough to do on "affordable housing"

Not in my limited experience, and definitely not around here.

It was code in pa for a couple months. But a bunch of builders organizations fought it and got it removed because they simply didn't understand it

History. The systems installed in many homes, when this first became code in the 1990's, had an incredibly high failure rate and caused numerous complete home losses. Those systems were not metered, were often plumbed in PVC, and would never stop flowing when a leak would develop in the plumbing. I have personally seen a handful of complete home losses in my mother's small development, built ca. 1999, due to system failures while these retirees were away wintering in Florida.

Couldn't the same be said for wood framing, plywood, OSB, beadboard, etc?

I can't speak for OSB, but natural wood products have a lower burn temperature and respond better to a fire hose. Although I've never been a firefighter, most of my past family was, and my father also did fire inspection and designed firefighting equipment. They used to complain about composite materials, those available in the 1980's anyway, as they burned hotter and were harder to extinguish.

The issue with engineered beams is different, though. That's not just about temperature and extinguishing, but about load fail point. Wood floor joists are consumed slowly and predictably, such that a firefighter has relatively little concern of unexpected and instantaneous failure when moving through a structure. They can feel the floor going soft long before it actually fails. But many engineered beams will give out with no warning, creating much higher danger.

 

[EbS-P]

Very cool! But they didn't make any mention of 1) cost projections, or 2) energy usage during fabrication. It's stated that they think this could be a solution for low-income housing needs, but I imagine the cost of 3D printing houses MUST be higher than factory-manufactured homes, and likely always will be? Also, if this is being sold on a waste usage/environmental angle, there should be more discussion of energy usage, and trade-off against other uses for this waste (incineration, recycling, etc.).


Not in my limited experience, and definitely not around here.


History. The systems installed in many homes, when this first became code in the 1990's, had an incredibly high failure rate and caused numerous complete home losses. Those systems were not metered, were often plumbed in PVC, and would never stop flowing when a leak would develop in the plumbing. I have personally seen a handful of complete home losses in my mother's small development, built ca. 1999, due to system failures while these retirees were away wintering in Florida.


I can't speak for OSB, but natural wood products have a lower burn temperature and respond better to a fire hose. Although I've never been a firefighter, most of my past family was, and my father also did fire inspection and designed firefighting equipment. They used to complain about composite materials, those available in the 1980's anyway, as they burned hotter and were harder to extinguish.

The issue with engineered beams is different, though. That's not just about temperature and extinguishing, but about load fail point. Wood floor joists are consumed slowly and predictably, such that a firefighter has relatively little concern of unexpected and instantaneous failure when moving through a structure. They can feel the floor going soft long before it actually fails. But many engineered beams will give out with no warning, creating much higher danger.

Cost of labor is significant. If you can “frame out” a house at the push of the button and the Machine works 24-7 that’s a lot of labor savings. I think we can assume the energy cost is less than labor. And electric rates are projected to remain rather constant for the next 20-30 year’s probably can’t say that about labor rates.

I’m sure flame retardant chemicals could be mixed into the resin.

Residential sprinklers will become code some day eventually

 

[GrumpyDad]

Very cool! But they didn't make any mention of 1) cost projections, or 2) energy usage during fabrication. It's stated that they think this could be a solution for low-income housing needs, but I imagine the cost of 3D printing houses MUST be higher than factory-manufactured homes, and likely always will be? Also, if this is being sold on a waste usage/environmental angle, there should be more discussion of energy usage, and trade-off against other uses for this waste (incineration, recycling, etc.).


Not in my limited experience, and definitely not around here.


History. The systems installed in many homes, when this first became code in the 1990's, had an incredibly high failure rate and caused numerous complete home losses. Those systems were not metered, were often plumbed in PVC, and would never stop flowing when a leak would develop in the plumbing. I have personally seen a handful of complete home losses in my mother's small development, built ca. 1999, due to system failures while these retirees were away wintering in Florida.


I can't speak for OSB, but natural wood products have a lower burn temperature and respond better to a fire hose. Although I've never been a firefighter, most of my past family was, and my father also did fire inspection and designed firefighting equipment. They used to complain about composite materials, those available in the 1980's anyway, as they burned hotter and were harder to extinguish.

The issue with engineered beams is different, though. That's not just about temperature and extinguishing, but about load fail point. Wood floor joists are consumed slowly and predictably, such that a firefighter has relatively little concern of unexpected and instantaneous failure when moving through a structure. They can feel the floor going soft long before it actually fails. But many engineered beams will give out with no warning, creating much higher danger.

The engineered beams delam and then fire + the load makes it a weak point very quickly. Otherwise, they are much stronger than dimensional lumber, and more pricey.

 

[EbS-P]

The engineered beams delam and then fire + the load makes it a weak point very quickly. Otherwise, they are much stronger than dimensional lumber, and more pricey.

By the time you’re hot enough to delaminate beams the structure is probably a total loss. If we are talking about survivability gets sprinklers.

 

[GrumpyDad]

By the time you’re hot enough to delaminate beams the structure is probably a total loss. If we are talking about survivability gets sprinklers.

ok ok, step aside 3d printed composite home, ...here's hemp lego block housing.

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

 

[Ashful]

By the time you’re hot enough to delaminate beams the structure is probably a total loss. If we are talking about survivability gets sprinklers.

My father worked in fire rescue for a few decades, the guys running into the building to pull out survivors or victims, often before the rest of the crew is set up to move water. I can personally tell you the loss of the structure is not the biggest concern, to those guys.

Funny story, growing up, we had a bunch of ladders retired from various fire companies that were either founded or managed by my father, grandfather, great-grandfather. I asked him once why they were all wood, thinking I'd not want to rely on a ladder that can burn when climbing into a burning building to retrieve bodies. He said the fire co's (at that time, ca.1980) still preferred wood, because it might char and even burn a little, but it won't fail. Heated aluminum or composites can fail unexpectedly under load, and all metal ladders are electrical concern (imagine setting up at night with overhead wires in unfamiliar surroundings). They always knew true riven-wood ladders would get them back down safely, even if it was starting to catch fire.

Anyway, it'd still be interesting to see the costs on these printed homes, versus a manufactured home. I think you're making a lot of assumptions there, but let's have a look at some real numbers and possible projections, before debating it.

 

[bholler]

History. The systems installed in many homes, when this first became code in the 1990's, had an incredibly high failure rate and caused numerous complete home losses. Those systems were not metered, were often plumbed in PVC, and would never stop flowing when a leak would develop in the plumbing. I have personally seen a handful of complete home losses in my mother's small development, built ca. 1999, due to system failures while these retirees were away wintering in Florida.

Yes but most of the systems used now are dry systems run by a pump with water in a holding tank. Generally 250 to 300 gallons. All plumbed out of pex with home runs to the manifold at the tank.

 

[peakbagger]

Not all are dry. I am pretty sure the Uponor system heads are tapped off residential cold water lines.

 

[bholler]

The engineered beams delam and then fire + the load makes it a weak point very quickly. Otherwise, they are much stronger than dimensional lumber, and more pricey.

I havnt priced them lately but for quite a while it was considerably cheaper to use engendered lumber for flooring systems

 

[bholler]

Not all are dry. I am pretty sure the Uponor system heads are tapped off residential cold water lines.

I know not all are. Which is why I said most. The problem with systems run off of the domestic water system is flow rate. Many homes don't have the nessecary flow rate for them to work effectively.

 

[EbS-P]

I know not all are. Which is why I said most. The problem with systems run off of the domestic water system is flow rate. Many homes don't have the nessecary flow rate for them to work effectively.

I looked up the data. Somewhere. Most residential (I’m making this number but as I don’t recall the source or the actual number, so say 80%) only activated two or fewer heads. So flow rate according to the data was sufficient with 3/4 “plumbing off the municipal hookup. If you had a well that’s probably different.

 

[bholler]

I looked up the data. Somewhere. Most residential (I’m making this number but as I don’t recall the source or the actual number, so say 80%) only activated two or fewer heads. So flow rate according to the data was sufficient with 3/4 “plumbing off the municipal hookup. If you had a well that’s probably different.

Yes but the vast majority of homes here don't have municipal water. And even some of the municipal systems aren't very good.

I know they were required to run 2 heads for I believe 5 mins. But I don't remember the flow rate

 

[Ashful]

Just thinking of the weight of 300 gallons of water stored in the attic. Oof! Not in this old house!

I'd be strongly in favor of a dry system, both for weight savings and lower likelihood of damage due to system leaks or discharge, esp. if material can be stored in the basement.

I suspect every one of us knows someone who's knocked or damaged a sprinkler head at one point in their life. Always makes for a fun day at the office, when a maintenance accidentally crew takes one out with a ladder.

 

[bholler]

Just thinking of the weight of 300 gallons of water stored in the attic. Oof! Not in this old house!

I'd be strongly in favor of a dry system, both for weight savings and lower likelihood of damage due to system leaks or discharge, esp. if material can be stored in the basement.

I suspect every one of us knows someone who's knocked or damaged a sprinkler head at one point in their life. Always makes for a fun day at the office, when a maintenance accidentally crew takes one out with a ladder.

Why would you store the water in the attic? You would then have to keep it from freezing there.

By a dry system I mean a system where the pipes have no water in them until a head is activated. Not a dry chemical system.

 

[Ashful]

Why would you store the water in the attic? You would then have to keep it from freezing there.

If the reason for storage is to overcome an issue with insufficient flow rate from a well or public utility, then I assumed it would have to be a gravity-feed system. Any equal-displacement system placed in a basement is not going to overcome well or utility flow rate, unless it's pre-charged with pressurized gas, or some other means. Also, gravity would overcome issues with loss of electrical power.

 

[bholler]

If the reason for storage is to overcome an issue with insufficient flow rate from a well or public utility, then I assumed it would have to be a gravity-feed system. Any equal-displacement system placed in a basement is not going to overcome well or utility flow rate, unless it's pre-charged with pressurized gas, or some other means. Also, gravity would overcome issues with loss of electrical power.

You don't need to overcome the flow rate. You have a storage tank holding enough water to run 2 heads at the given flow rate for the given time. When a head is activated the pump turns on and pumps water through the system.

 

[DBoon]

Cost of labor is significant.

And its no longer just about cost of labor, its more about availability of labor.

 

[ABMax24]

Looking at it this way, what's the largest cost for this 3D printed home? If you move to mass production I would say that would likely be the binder (resin) in the material. While the printer is going to be expensive it's cost is amortized over hopefully hundreds of homes. The CAD work to design it isn't particularly expensive, nor should be the labour to setup the printer and assemble the house.

I have a hard time envisioning how in a production environment this could be more expensive. Especially if comparing a custom 3d printed home to a custom stick built house. That's the beauty of 3D printing, print time is based almost entirely on the amount of material deposited, the complexity of the shape doesn't factor in nearly as much as something built by human labour.

 

[Ashful]

You don't need to overcome the flow rate. You have a storage tank holding enough water to run 2 heads at the given flow rate for the given time. When a head is activated the pump turns on and pumps water through the system.

Got it. Local pump. But what if the fire (or the lightning hit that caused it) takes out the electric supply?

 

[bholler]

Got it. Local pump. But what if the fire (or the lightning hit that caused it) takes out the electric supply?

Then it wouldn't work.

But that is a tiny percentage of house fires.

 

[begreen]

ok ok, step aside 3d printed composite home, ...here's hemp lego block housing.

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

There are variations on hempcrete building blocks that look intriguing.

Looking at it this way, what's the largest cost for this 3D printed home? If you move to mass production I would say that would likely be the binder (resin) in the material. While the printer is going to be expensive it's cost is amortized over hopefully hundreds of homes. The CAD work to design it isn't particularly expensive, nor should be the labour to setup the printer and assemble the house.

I have a hard time envisioning how in a production environment this could be more expensive. Especially if comparing a custom 3d printed home to a custom stick built house. That's the beauty of 3D printing, print time is based almost entirely on the amount of material deposited, the complexity of the shape doesn't factor in nearly as much as something built by human labour.

The method being developed is for factory-built modules that get connected on-site. It doesn't sound like these homes would be highly customized, but chosen from a selection of standard layouts and sizes. This should greatly reduce cost, waste, and complexity.