heritage or mansfield

[Rhone]

He lives around a 7700-7800 HDD area with annual winds of 10-12 MPH. Allenspark Colorado, where the Heritage is a great stove and works well is around 5550 HDD so Allenspark is very warm compared to Southern Wi. Allenspark is very windy, more so than Southern Wi. Poughkeepsie, NY is 6400 HDD, it's also warm comparitively and winds are similar to Southern Wi. Vintage 181 mentions Rutland VT and Southern Quebec and using the Mansfield. We don't know if it's too much stove for Vintage 181 or if the stove is in Quebec or Rutland, but Rutland is 7100 HDD and not windy so we have to keep going north. Montreal Canada and mid Maine are 7800 HDD's, and why I'm pretty sure the Heritage can't keep up with that much house, in that kind of climate, and windy to boot. I'm in the 7200 HDD and not windy and a 60k unit is just right. If a 60k unit is just right for a 1300 sq ft house in a 7200 HDD climate that's not windy, I can't see a smaller 55k unit heating a house 65% larger in a 7800 HDD colder climate that is windy and being able to pull it off. Anyway, that's why I think the Heritage won't work. Aren't people in Canada and upper Maine usually using bigger stoves?

 

[suematteva]

He lives around a 7700-7800 HDD area with annual winds of 10-12 MPH. Allenspark Colorado, where the Heritage is a great stove and works well is around 5550 HDD so Allenspark is very warm compared to Southern Wi. Allenspark is very windy, more so than Southern Wi. Poughkeepsie, NY is 6400 HDD, it's also warm comparitively and winds are similar to Southern Wi. Vintage 181 mentions Rutland VT and Southern Quebec and using the Mansfield. We don't know if it's too much stove for Vintage 181 or if the stove is in Quebec or Rutland, but Rutland is 7100 HDD and not windy so we have to keep going north. Montreal Canada and mid Maine are 7800 HDD's, and why I'm pretty sure the Heritage can't keep up with that much house, in that kind of climate, and windy to boot. I'm in the 7200 HDD and not windy and a 60k unit is just right. If a 60k unit is just right for a 1300 sq ft house in a 7200 HDD climate that's not windy, I can't see a smaller 55k unit heating a house 65% larger in a 7800 HDD colder climate that is windy and being able to pull it off. Anyway, that's why I think the Heritage won't work. Aren't people in Canada and upper Maine usually using bigger stoves?

Stove is in Knowlton...

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

Whats a HDD?

 

[lanos]

Well it looks like it's kind of 50/50 on which way to go the Mansfield or Heritage. We are leaning towards the Heritage for the reason that we don't want it to get too hot in the room the stove is in. And we might end up just running the stove down in the basement more to try to heat the whole house , because if we don't run the stove in the basement , the basement area might get too cold. By reading this sight and the hearthstone web sight, I came to the conclusion that I know more than any hearthstone dealer in our area about the hearthstone stoves. Most didn't have any idea about the Mansfield having the seaform finish. Some didn't know what seafoam finish was. What happens that you end up telling them about their stoves on all levels because you researched it. I just think the people they have working should know more about what their selling..

 

[Shane]

Amen,
I called a competitor to get prices on their pellet stoves. One of the people told me their is no feasable way to compare NG cost to pellet cost. I even baited them a bit trying to get something and they insisted it's just one of lifes mysteries. ;-) In defense though they did know heating capacity, options etc. The other one (though I think he caught on to what I was doing) couldn't give me a price on venting. I understand not being able to provide an exact quote but not even a guestimate? Also couldn't/wouldn't tell me much about the pellet inserts. Just that their largest one was about 3500 bucks. He told me to come down and talk to them, so if he figured I was a competitor and said that stuff, ok, understand. If he didn't though.....

I learned a valuable lesson last year about making sure you have knowledgable staff on your floor. I won't go into details but our store didn't get a large sale because I had a new employee on the floor who should've had a little more practice.

 

[Rhone]

Badger, don't put the stove in the basement. You lose around 10 degrees a floor since, we live in somewhat similar climates. My old house, I had a stove in the basement and I had vents, registers, fans, ducts, and a big hood over it along with a stairway and used an 70,000 btu wood stove. I had to keep the basement 80-85 degrees, the main floor would be 74 degrees or so, and the upper floor 62-64. (broken link removed to http://www.woodheat.org/technology/woodstoves.htm), the part of "Don't put wood stoves in the basement". The better insulated and warmer climate you live in, the better you'll be able to successfully heat from the basement. I didn't succeed, biggest mistake was putting my stove there.

HDD is a Heating Degree Day. It's basically to determine how often and how much the temp is below 65F. You take the highest temp for the day, and the lowest temp and average them. Then, subtract 65. If today's high was 60F and low was 40F, the average is 50. Take 65 - 50 = 15 HDDs for that day. Add them for each year and you get the total HDD's. It's a decent indication to compare areas, for example parts of southern VT are 8100 HDD's and parts of central VT 7100. Knowing the two, you know the person in Southern VT is actually in a colder area than the one in central VT and even more harsh than Montreal Canada as well. MSG, you know where Allenspark lodge is? It reports an average HDD of 9000, that's off the charts cold! Is Allenspark Lodge on top of Pikes peak or something? On top of a ski mountain? I was surprised to see Allenspark lodge report HDD's of 9000 but Allenspark being 5555 HDD's. To verify, Estes Park which is close reported 5550 HDD's so that's the one I went with.

 

[wg_bent]

Badger, don't put the stove in the basement. You lose around 10 degrees a floor since, we live in somewhat similar climates. My old house, I had a stove in the basement and I had vents, registers, fans, ducts, and a big hood over it along with a stairway and used an 70,000 btu wood stove. I had to keep the basement 80-85 degrees, the main floor would be 74 degrees or so, and the upper floor 62-64. (broken link removed to http://www.woodheat.org/technology/woodstoves.htm), the part of "Don't put wood stoves in the basement". The better insulated and warmer climate you live in, the better you'll be able to successfully heat from the basement. I didn't succeed, biggest mistake was putting my stove there.

HDD is a Heating Degree Day. It's basically to determine how often and how much the temp is below 65F. You take the highest temp for the day, and the lowest temp and average them. Then, subtract 65. If today's high was 60F and low was 40F, the average is 50. Take 65 - 50 = 15 HDDs for that day. Add them for each year and you get the total HDD's. It's a decent indication to compare areas, for example parts of southern VT are 8100 HDD's and parts of central VT 7100. Knowing the two, you know the person in Southern VT is actually in a colder area than the one in central VT and even more harsh than Montreal Canada as well. MSG, you know where Allenspark lodge is? It reports an average HDD of 9000, that's off the charts cold! Is Allenspark Lodge on top of Pikes peak or something? On top of a ski mountain? I was surprised to see Allenspark lodge report HDD's of 9000 but Allenspark being 5555 HDD's. To verify, Estes Park which is close reported 5550 HDD's so that's the one I went with.

Rhone, what I read was that he already has a stove in the basement that would suppliment the new stove on the main level.

I've been toying with this also, and so I'm essentially super insulating my basement. What I'm actually hoping for is that by super insulating the basement I won't actually need ANY heat. (The furnace is in the basement, so in reality it would be the heat source) So What I'm thinking is that if I wanted to take the chill off of the roughly 500sqft basement, a VERY small stove would be sufficient. VC Aspen, Morso 1410, Jotul 602 or 3CB. I'll probably install some baseboard and see how it goes. (just my thinking...and I don't want this thought to hijack this thread)

It was good you pointed out the HDDs of the different areas. I had not taken his location into account because he said his insulation was pretty good. The points in the other thread I started on minimum BTU output of stoves, given the two stoves in this thread, is really irrelevant, so taking into account the HDDs you pointed out, plus my own experience of a stove with a 1.8 cuft firebox, I think the larger of the two stoves would be the way to go. Given the fact that his stove will be at one end of the house, I do think a blower or at least a quiet fan blowing on the stove would really help move heat.

 

[suematteva]

Badger, don't put the stove in the basement. You lose around 10 degrees a floor since, we live in somewhat similar climates. My old house, I had a stove in the basement and I had vents, registers, fans, ducts, and a big hood over it along with a stairway and used an 70,000 btu wood stove. I had to keep the basement 80-85 degrees, the main floor would be 74 degrees or so, and the upper floor 62-64. (broken link removed to http://www.woodheat.org/technology/woodstoves.htm), the part of "Don't put wood stoves in the basement". The better insulated and warmer climate you live in, the better you'll be able to successfully heat from the basement. I didn't succeed, biggest mistake was putting my stove there.

HDD is a Heating Degree Day. It's basically to determine how often and how much the temp is below 65F. You take the highest temp for the day, and the lowest temp and average them. Then, subtract 65. If today's high was 60F and low was 40F, the average is 50. Take 65 - 50 = 15 HDDs for that day. Add them for each year and you get the total HDD's. It's a decent indication to compare areas, for example parts of southern VT are 8100 HDD's and parts of central VT 7100. Knowing the two, you know the person in Southern VT is actually in a colder area than the one in central VT and even more harsh than Montreal Canada as well. MSG, you know where Allenspark lodge is? It reports an average HDD of 9000, that's off the charts cold! Is Allenspark Lodge on top of Pikes peak or something? On top of a ski mountain? I was surprised to see Allenspark lodge report HDD's of 9000 but Allenspark being 5555 HDD's. To verify, Estes Park which is close reported 5550 HDD's so that's the one I went with.

Rhonemas,

Question on your reasoning of not putting the stove in the basement..A solid quantity (am just throwing a number out but probably half if not more) of people in Quebec and Ontario have their stoves in the basement. On average the climate is quite cold..Realize you had your experience but what does that say about all these users and the basement stoves? I Understand the heat sink principle.

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

Badger, don't put the stove in the basement. You lose around 10 degrees a floor since, we live in somewhat similar climates. My old house, I had a stove in the basement and I had vents, registers, fans, ducts, and a big hood over it along with a stairway and used an 70,000 btu wood stove. I had to keep the basement 80-85 degrees, the main floor would be 74 degrees or so, and the upper floor 62-64. (broken link removed to http://www.woodheat.org/technology/woodstoves.htm), the part of "Don't put wood stoves in the basement". The better insulated and warmer climate you live in, the better you'll be able to successfully heat from the basement. I didn't succeed, biggest mistake was putting my stove there.

HDD is a Heating Degree Day. It's basically to determine how often and how much the temp is below 65F. You take the highest temp for the day, and the lowest temp and average them. Then, subtract 65. If today's high was 60F and low was 40F, the average is 50. Take 65 - 50 = 15 HDDs for that day. Add them for each year and you get the total HDD's. It's a decent indication to compare areas, for example parts of southern VT are 8100 HDD's and parts of central VT 7100. Knowing the two, you know the person in Southern VT is actually in a colder area than the one in central VT and even more harsh than Montreal Canada as well. MSG, you know where Allenspark lodge is? It reports an average HDD of 9000, that's off the charts cold! Is Allenspark Lodge on top of Pikes peak or something? On top of a ski mountain? I was surprised to see Allenspark lodge report HDD's of 9000 but Allenspark being 5555 HDD's. To verify, Estes Park which is close reported 5550 HDD's so that's the one I went with.

estes park is 1500 feet lower then here, most apmospheric data from allenspark comes from the valley. The only person that posts data for Allens Park is the lodge. This place is off the charts cold. Its a complete different climate then estes, estes is in a banna belt, allenspark is in a high valley that gets alot of weather due to the proximinty to the contintal divide. We regulary get -15 to -30 degree days in januaray and feb, its realy strange how you can go just a few miles each way and get different climates. A few years ago we got a 92" snow, three miles down the canyon, and a 1000 feel lower they got 34'. This is getting off topic. i did learn what HDD is! thanks!

 

[Rhone]

Well Vintage 181, Going to Antarctica many years ago on an Ice-breaker by Canadians... I watched them during a blizzard go into their bathing suits, lower some steps on the side of the icebreaker that goes right down to water level, and they climb down and jump into the ocean and swim around the icebergs. Sounds like fun doesn't it? Off I go running into my bathing suit, run down the steps and jump in to join my Canadian buddies, after about 20 seconds my muscles no longer move... I say I can't move my muscle.... and my jaw locks... I'm now in the water, unable to speak, unable to move. Several moments later my body starts convulsing and I start to hyperventilate and can't do a damn thing I'm going into shock. I'm rescued by non other than the Canadians swimming merily next to me, who after hauling me out and getting me to safety go back in. My feeling is there's something... rather unhuman about Canadians... being born of ice and snow.... oh sorry, about Canadians using stoves in their basement.

It's always been that way, and until you're in a house that has it on the main floor you really don't think about why the main floor is better. I guess a way to think about it is, how practical to have your whole house AC coldness spool only into an attic that you don't use, if your attic was slightly insulated and sealed up. From there, it's your task to try to get the cold to your main floor and basement below in such a way it's comfortable on them and as evenly as you can. It's a lot better to skip having the cold come out where you don't need it, and have it come out on the main floor where you have more control over where it ends up and how things go. You don't lose as much energy either.

It's always been that way around here as well, people always put it in the basement for many reasons. Houses around here were built with 2 flues, one for a fireplace the other the boiler in the basement. Until I call it recently there was no such thing as a stove going into a fireplace or the idea of the insert. Instead, you had to hook your stove into the only available pipe attached to the flue, the boiler and with a simple T you were done (illegal today). Or, the basement has room for the fuel, the stove should go near the fuel. I did what everyone else around me did. That first year was really tough, I lost a lot of energy to the foundation and ran out of wood. So, I insulated the foundation. That helped keep the area damn hot but it wasn't rising up like I felt it should. So, I tore the house apart and put a hood over the stove vented into the kitchen above. Put in a fan on the side to blow the heat from it into the living room. Put a register on the top of the basement stairs so the heat would rise into the upper floor bedrooms. I put in 2 registers, one went into each bathroom. I basically put in a whole house ducting system with fans and insulated the basement trying to make the heat even in all floors. Ended up very disappointing. The heat wasn't leaving the basement like it should. After all that work, I deem it a failure and I think I did more than anyone.

I go and get an insert and put it on the main floor of my new house which is a big ranch that's the same size as my previous house. No registers, no vents, the insert has a blower. I couldn't believe it. I didn't roast myself out of the room, I only had to keep the room with my insert 73-74 to heat the rest of my house. The bedrooms on the other side of my house stay around 68 degrees. That's what I tried so hard to do with my stove in the basement. You can't "even" out the heat between floors with a stove in the basement, if you want the main floor to be 74 you need the basement roasting. So, I think over time the basement thing is going to die. Then again, basements for hanging out and additional living space is coming back. If you spend most of your time in the basement, probably the best place is in the basement. But, putting a stove in the basement and you hang out on the main floor uses a lot of fuel and I found it disappointing.

 

[suematteva]

Thanks for your thoughts.

 

[Todd]

This basement thing goes house by house. Lots of variables. I've done it in 2 different homes. First was a ranch and I tried everything to get the heat upstairs like Rhonemas. I could never get enough heat upstairs so I ended up installing a second stove.

My current home has the stove in the basement and with the help of floor vents and fans it heats the whole house, except for the very cold below zero days. But even then the temp rarely gets below 68, not actually bad, but feels colder compared to basement. This home is more open and a little smaller than last, so that helps.

 

[lanos]

Attn: Mountain stove guy: We can not find any mansfield in the seafoam around here. Aproximately how much would it cost to ship from Colorado?

 

[MountainStoveGuy]

Check your PM box. I left you a message.