Help with Harman P68

[F4jock]

Sorry I'm just replying back to everyone, but my family needed to be feed last night......lol, so I had to stop my obsessive watching of the P68! : ) Plus we woke up to no electric at 4am! What a way to start the day!

Seriously, I did think the same thing about the fan blades. I would have thought we would have heard an awful noise when it was trying to run with those blades broke. But oh well. Also, the ESP sensor or what ever that is called was never mentioned until he came back, but with me not really knowing the workings of the stove parts, I have to rely on those that know. Hence, why I joined this group : ) and my wanting to figure out why the stove is not working like it did!

So here's what I set it at: Room Temp Mode Auto Fan High Temp@ 75 Feed Rate @5
I let it run in this for a couple hours It starts the same cycle as before, it starts feeding pellets for about 41/2 minutes as the flame has steadily gotten higher/hotter, it stops feeding pellets, then starts on its down ward loss of flame which lasts another 41/2 minutes till the flame is only around 2to3". Then the cycle starts over again.


I also set it in: Room Temp Mode Manual Fan High Temp@75 Feed Rate @5
As before I let it run in this setting for a few hours, here's what I got:
The same cycle as before, it starts feeding pellets for about 5 minutes as the flame steadily gets higher/hotter, then pellets stop & the downward cycle begins and last 5 minutes. I will say this setting does get a more aggressive & hotter flame and once its up there, it is more like how the stove was working in the past. But when the flame goes down it also looks like its ready to do out before it starts the cycle all over again.

I know that there has to be a up/down cycle because of the exhaust temps etc (which is what the store owner told me last week when he came here) .... but to me this is too much to the extreme and I know I was a little obsessive last season (our first) with watching the stove burn. (didn't want to admit that to him) but when I say I know that the stove didn't do this believe me I do.
Thanks so much for all your replies!

Also when I can let the stove go out later this afternoon, hopefully we can check the ESP wires.

As Harman Lover said we need more information and so do you. Turn on your main heating system, turn the stove off, let it cool down, look at your end-of-year cleaning instructions, find the ESP, check the wire color as well as the position of dip switch 5. Up for red, down for black I believe, but check that as well. While you are in there you can also remove and gently clean the ESP (I use Windex and a paper towel.) as well as check the seating of the feeder chamber cover as has been suggested. All of this can be found in the stove and cleaning instructions. When you've eliminated all these possibilities let us know what you've found.

 

[Harman Lover 007]

Sorry I'm just replying back to everyone, but my family needed to be feed last night......lol, so I had to stop my obsessive watching of the P68! : ) Plus we woke up to no electric at 4am! What a way to start the day!

Seriously, I did think the same thing about the fan blades. I would have thought we would have heard an awful noise when it was trying to run with those blades broke. But oh well. Also, the ESP sensor or what ever that is called was never mentioned until he came back, but with me not really knowing the workings of the stove parts, I have to rely on those that know. Hence, why I joined this group : ) and my wanting to figure out why the stove is not working like it did!

So here's what I set it at: Room Temp Mode Auto Fan High Temp@ 75 Feed Rate @5
I let it run in this for a couple hours It starts the same cycle as before, it starts feeding pellets for about 41/2 minutes as the flame has steadily gotten higher/hotter, it stops feeding pellets, then starts on its down ward loss of flame which lasts another 41/2 minutes till the flame is only around 2to3". Then the cycle starts over again.


I also set it in: Room Temp Mode Manual Fan High Temp@75 Feed Rate @5
As before I let it run in this setting for a few hours, here's what I got:
The same cycle as before, it starts feeding pellets for about 5 minutes as the flame steadily gets higher/hotter, then pellets stop & the downward cycle begins and last 5 minutes. I will say this setting does get a more aggressive & hotter flame and once its up there, it is more like how the stove was working in the past. But when the flame goes down it also looks like its ready to do out before it starts the cycle all over again.

I know that there has to be a up/down cycle because of the exhaust temps etc (which is what the store owner told me last week when he came here) .... but to me this is too much to the extreme and I know I was a little obsessive last season (our first) with watching the stove burn. (didn't want to admit that to him) but when I say I know that the stove didn't do this believe me I do.
Thanks so much for all your replies!

Also when I can let the stove go out later this afternoon, hopefully we can check the ESP wires.

You don't have to let it go out, per se. Take the right side rear panel off...all you have to do is loosen two screws and you can see where the ESP is mounted in the exhaust path with one small hex head screw. It either has red wires or black wires...

 

[alternativeheat]

You don't have to let it go out, per se. Take the right side rear panel off...all you have to do is loosen two screws and you can see where the ESP is mounted in the exhaust path with one small hex head screw. It either has red wires or black wires...

Those screws have a straight blade slot in them as well. So if a hex driver is not on hand you can use a screw driver. Additionally, from the factory there are three screws on the panel, one is removed the other two the panel has a slotted mount for so you just loosen them.

 

[luv2bwrm]

Those screws have a straight blade slot in them as well. So if a hex driver is not on hand you can use a screw driver. Additionally, from the factory there are three screws on the panel, one is removed the other two the panel has a slotted mount for so you just loosen them.

Thanks alternativeheat & harmanlover007 for that detailed info. : ) This Harman and propane fireplaces are my major heat sources, since last year I have stopped using our oil heater. I was spending about $1000 for Oil and $500 in Electric a month to only heat about 1/3 of our home. Although I did have to start my Kodiak wood stove up this morning when the electric was out till we got the Generator going.

 

[newf lover]

1. Did you check that the fines box cover was properly replaced yet? I would not trust your stove guy! As was mentioned, start with the easy things first.
2. Do you have a thermometer in your room to take the temp of the room? When you set it to 75, does it get to 75 within a couple degrees at least? If it's not getting to temp, this would be proof something is not right.
3. Check the color of the ESP wires, which you said you would do later.
4. The pellets shouldn't have a big effect on the cycling etc.
5. My experience with some repair guys is you have to do your own process of elimination or they will keep telling you to try this and try that. I would not be afraid to mention this forum and that several people mentioned how odd it was the fan blades were "broken". I bet he tried to clean it with the blades moving and damaged them.

 

[luv2bwrm]

1. Did you check that the fines box cover was properly replaced yet? I would not trust your stove guy! As was mentioned, start with the easy things first.
2. Do you have a thermometer in your room to take the temp of the room? When you set it to 75, does it get to 75 within a couple degrees at least? If it's not getting to temp, this would be proof something is not right.
3. Check the color of the ESP wires, which you said you would do later.
4. The pellets shouldn't have a big effect on the cycling etc.
5. My experience with some repair guys is you have to do your own process of elimination or they will keep telling you to try this and try that. I would not be afraid to mention this forum and that several people mentioned how odd it was the fan blades were "broken". I bet he tried to clean it with the blades moving and damaged them.

No, but will check all that at the same time as the ESP wires
Unfortunately I don't have a thermometer in that room, I had opened up some walls in our Farm house, that's why I usually run it in Stove Mode at a set temp setting. The heat flows through out the bottom level & goes up to the 4th floor.
I think I'm going to give him a call and ask about the ESP sensor being replaced.

 

[luv2bwrm]

Ok I did call the Owner of the store & the tech that put it in. This model has the red wire on the ESP & the way he talked it has no dipswitch. (the older models did?) When my husband gets home I will have him check to see about the cover being on tight. I'll be honest, I feel like I have to keep begging to have someone realize that it is not running correctly.

Any of you that have the Harman P68 in your home now, is yours cycling up and down like I have described??? Our temp is around 28 with wind blowing gusts up to 30mph so it's cold enough to notice when its not running efficiently. Supposed to get a call back after 4pm so I'll lyk what they find out. I really didn't get an answer as to why a new model couldn't make it thru the first season w/o replacing the fan & ESP sensor.

 

[alternativeheat]

Ok I did call the Owner of the store & the tech that put it in. This model has the red wire on the ESP & the way he talked it has no dipswitch. (the older models did?) When my husband gets home I will have him check to see about the cover being on tight. I'll be honest, I feel like I have to keep begging to have someone realize that it is not running correctly.

Any of you that have the Harman P68 in your home now, is yours cycling up and down like I have described??? Our temp is around 28 with wind blowing gusts up to 30mph so it's cold enough to notice when its not running efficiently. Supposed to get a call back after 4pm so I'll lyk what they find out. I really didn't get an answer as to why a new model couldn't make it thru the first season w/o replacing the fan & ESP sensor.

Let us know what happens, we all learn from these episodes.

Ya know without seeing the actual burn I think we all are trying to get a feel for just what your stove is doing. I run a P61a, 2013 model which should behave very similarly to your P68 and it ramps flame up and down all the time. It also has never needed a new fan blade or an ESP. Now whether it's to the levels and times that you are describing I can't say off hand as I've never timed the intervals. I know my house is warm though. In stove temp auto mode at level 5 feed rate 4 and medium to high blower it gets mighty warm around here and not all that high a flame to do it . In room temp manual mode I get high burns sometimes, low burns others and maintenance burns at still other times. Best I can tell you for the moment.

Is your house warm on these 28 deg days?

 

[TonyVideo]

How airtight is your home. New? Lot's of insulation and sealing for 0 drafts from the outside? Do you have the air Intake coming in from outside or nothing hooked up on the back of the stove intake.

How is your exhaust hooked up?

Is the flame shooting straight up or lazy?

 

[alternativeheat]

I'm just going to say one more thing before we hear back, while we wait etc. and I am not saying that this is the case but what if. Going out on a limb here but just suppose that fan blade was defective and the ESP whacky during last years burning season. How could the stove have been producing a proper flame then ? And if that were the case then what was seen was an improper burn last year not this year.

Again, is the house getting heated in this 28 deg weather ( actually here it is 22 this morning) ?

 

[luv2bwrm]

Ok here we go. To answer, NO my house is not staying warm like it should. On Tuesday the tech was supposed to get back to me after 4, but I didn't get a call or anyone stop y the house, so needless to say I wasn't happy. So yesterday I drove the hour up to the Stove Shop just so I could see how the Harman P68 was running up there. Needless to say it was what I expected a slow but steady feed rate of pellets with a consistent flame fluctuating up and down as it should depending on the setting. That's been my point all along, in ALL settings my stove does the same thing......feed pellets constantly for 4or5 minutes then NO pellets for 4or5 minutes This Does Not produce an efficient burn. The owner comes out and I'm still having to convince him that I'm not imagining my stove not running properly. Apparently the tech & him had a conversation about the stove on Tuesday , but apparently neither one thought it was important to call me back and say they weren't coming. He said he was going to call me that morning (needless to say it was already 11:30) so I guess his morning and mine are different. So much for my rant...... but then he says that he had decided to order a new board for it, but I'll have to wait till after Thanksgiving before the tech or him can get down to install it. Not Happy again!
I had told him & the tech on Tues that I joined this group to try and get some answers when both of them felt it was running fine and their Machine didn't see any problems. I will say, what has happened to using common sense and seeing with your own eyes also to fix a problem. I told him you all brought up some good questions/concerns which I proceeded to talk to him about...... He said that the reason the ESP probe had to be replaced was because it was reading a number like 200 when the stove hadn't even been on,.... ok. But then the same stove had its fan in a bunch of pieces and I didn't hear a thing????? Coincidence he said ???? Then all of a sudden he says he had decided to order a new Board. (up to this point he hasn't even acknowledged to me that he truly believes that the stove is not running properly) This whole time he's treated me like a over reactive Woman, constantly making me justify why they should be trying to fix this stove that wasn't even a year old when it broke (6mos maybe).

So I have no answers as to what is really wrong with my stove and right now I'm not very confident that I made a good choice in any of the people that need to fix it. I researched enough to feel confident that I chose the right stove to heat my house, but it doesn't help at this stage when I have a cold house. I'm having to crank up my propane fireplaces (use more of it then I planned to) and I guess I'll have to go get some wood so I can use the Wood Stove that the Harman was replacing so I'll at least be warm for the Holiday! Many Thanks to you all for trying to help figure out my problem.........and listening to me blow off some frustration today!

 

[alternativeheat]

Ok here we go. To answer, NO my house is not staying warm like it should. On Tuesday the tech was supposed to get back to me after 4, but I didn't get a call or anyone stop y the house, so needless to say I wasn't happy. So yesterday I drove the hour up to the Stove Shop just so I could see how the Harman P68 was running up there. Needless to say it was what I expected a slow but steady feed rate of pellets with a consistent flame fluctuating up and down as it should depending on the setting. That's been my point all along, in ALL settings my stove does the same thing......feed pellets constantly for 4or5 minutes then NO pellets for 4or5 minutes This Does Not produce an efficient burn. The owner comes out and I'm still having to convince him that I'm not imagining my stove not running properly. Apparently the tech & him had a conversation about the stove on Tuesday , but apparently neither one thought it was important to call me back and say they weren't coming. He said he was going to call me that morning (needless to say it was already 11:30) so I guess his morning and mine are different. So much for my rant...... but then he says that he had decided to order a new board for it, but I'll have to wait till after Thanksgiving before the tech or him can get down to install it. Not Happy again!
I had told him & the tech on Tues that I joined this group to try and get some answers when both of them felt it was running fine and their Machine didn't see any problems. I will say, what has happened to using common sense and seeing with your own eyes also to fix a problem. I told him you all brought up some good questions/concerns which I proceeded to talk to him about...... He said that the reason the ESP probe had to be replaced was because it was reading a number like 200 when the stove hadn't even been on,.... ok. But then the same stove had its fan in a bunch of pieces and I didn't hear a thing????? Coincidence he said ???? Then all of a sudden he says he had decided to order a new Board. (up to this point he hasn't even acknowledged to me that he truly believes that the stove is not running properly) This whole time he's treated me like a over reactive Woman, constantly making me justify why they should be trying to fix this stove that wasn't even a year old when it broke (6mos maybe).

So I have no answers as to what is really wrong with my stove and right now I'm not very confident that I made a good choice in any of the people that need to fix it. I researched enough to feel confident that I chose the right stove to heat my house, but it doesn't help at this stage when I have a cold house. I'm having to crank up my propane fireplaces (use more of it then I planned to) and I guess I'll have to go get some wood so I can use the Wood Stove that the Harman was replacing so I'll at least be warm for the Holiday! Many Thanks to you all for trying to help figure out my problem.........and listening to me blow off some frustration today!

Luv2, I am a firm believer ( in more ways than one I might add) that the word coincidence possibly should not exist or if so be re identified. Nobody would be happy with this set of conditions. But hey, if they ordered the board before you got there then they know they need to do something more with your stove. This is a very busy season and no I'm not making excuses for the store people it's just fact, and you live a fair distance away. Thanksgiving is next week, it may be then before they see the board. Not calling you back is inexcusable but more and more getting to be the way in this world. It's so pleasant when you can deal with a company who connects all dots, not just the ones in their favor.

I admire your spunk, much like my wife's !! This stove situation will be corrected.

 

[luv2bwrm]

How airtight is your home. New? Lot's of insulation and sealing for 0 drafts from the outside? Do you have the air Intake coming in from outside or nothing hooked up on the back of the stove intake.

How is your exhaust hooked up?

Is the flame shooting straight up or lazy?

We live in a 180 year old 4 story Farm House, with many additions added on as the years have went by. The last few years we have redone the old Kitchen & DR into one large room and the old Formal LR opened up into the TV room to make one large room. (taken out walls etc..) We have redone all the down stairs with new walls and insulation so it's much better than before but definitely Not airtight like newly constructed homes. We have appx. 2600sqft on this first level. That's why we went to the P68 when we opened up all this space downstairs and the heat also goes up the spiral stairs to the 4th level of bedrooms.

The flame is very aggressive when it is on the up cycle (pellets being feed) and gradually goes down to almost out, then it starts over again. The stove is in the corner of the old Formal Lr with a pipe running to the outside and also a alum air intake that hooks to the stove bottom & runs outside also. Hope this helps.

 

[bogieb]

Luv2, I am a firm believer ( in more ways than one I might add) that the word coincidence possibly should not exist or if so be re identified. Nobody would be happy with this set of conditions. But hey, if they ordered the board before you got there then they know they need to do something more with your stove. This is a very busy season and no I'm not making excuses for the store people it's just fact, and you live a fair distance away. Thanksgiving is next week, it may be then before they see the board. Not calling you back is inexcusable but more and more getting to be the way in this world. It's so pleasant when you can deal with a company who connects all dots, not just the ones in their favor.

I admire your spunk, much like my wife's !! This stove situation will be corrected.

I would be surprised if they actually ordered your board before you got there, but hey, it could happen. Most likely they were hoping you would just disappear if they kept saying the right words (obviously you didn't). Sorry for all the trouble you have with the dealer and hope the stove gives you many trouble-free years of service once the problem is found and fixed.

 

[luv2bwrm]

Luv2, I am a firm believer ( in more ways than one I might add) that the word coincidence possibly should not exist or if so be re identified. Nobody would be happy with this set of conditions. But hey, if they ordered the board before you got there then they know they need to do something more with your stove. This is a very busy season and no I'm not making excuses for the store people it's just fact, and you live a fair distance away. Thanksgiving is next week, it may be then before they see the board. Not calling you back is inexcusable but more and more getting to be the way in this world. It's so pleasant when you can deal with a company who connects all dots, not just the ones in their favor.

I admire your spunk, much like my wife's !! This stove situation will be corrected.

I'll take that as a compliment alternativeheat! : ) So the board he's talking about ordering, pretty much takes care of any problems that the stove is having, since they have already replaced the fan and ESP probe?? What's left?? That's it right?

 

[alternativeheat]

I'll take that as a compliment alternativeheat! : ) So the board he's talking about ordering, pretty much takes care of any problems that the stove is having, since they have already replaced the fan and ESP probe?? What's left?? That's it right?

It was meant as a compliment.

Well there is more but the board is the brains of it all. If you get no change in functionality between different modes I'd think it's a good chance it is the board. I don't know why that is, why a busted fan blade, why an out of range probe and now a defective board but well, keep your chin up !

 

[TonyVideo]

I do think a new board is in order. The only thing else I would think of is that it acts like it is going into shutdown mode but then wakes up again and starts working. When it cycles down does the exhaust sound the same or do you hear it cycle off and on? Do you have a Ups connected to it or directly into power from an outlet? If it does the same thing with a board replacement maybe it is the quality of the power. Is it grounded at the power source? 3 prong.

 

[alternativeheat]

I do think a new board is in order. The only thing else I would think of is that it acts like it is going into shutdown mode but then wakes up again and starts working. When it cycles down does the exhaust sound the same or do you hear it cycle off and on? Do you have a Ups connected to it or directly into power from an outlet? If it does the same thing with a board replacement maybe it is the quality of the power. Is it grounded at the power source? 3 prong.

Hmm, yes I was wondering about the power situation as well. Instability and no ground as well can send the board nuts or even cause damage I would think..

 

[F4jock]

Ok I did call the Owner of the store & the tech that put it in. This model has the red wire on the ESP & the way he talked it has no dipswitch. (the older models did?) When my husband gets home I will have him check to see about the cover being on tight. I'll be honest, I feel like I have to keep begging to have someone realize that it is not running correctly.

Any of you that have the Harman P68 in your home now, is yours cycling up and down like I have described??? Our temp is around 28 with wind blowing gusts up to 30mph so it's cold enough to notice when its not running efficiently. Supposed to get a call back after 4pm so I'll lyk what they find out. I really didn't get an answer as to why a new model couldn't make it thru the first season w/o replacing the fan & ESP sensor.

Please correct me if I'm wrong but Red ESP wires and no dipswitch = old board and new ESP = problems, no???

 

[newf lover]

Luv2bwrm, I hate to keep harping on this, but it's not good enough that the cover to the fines box is on tight, it has to be on right. I'm only being a PIA about it because I put mine on wrong and the stove acted like you are describing. My cover has to go in at an angle, and go over a little lip, then pushed flush against the box itself.

 

[bogieb]

Luv2bwrm, I hate to keep harping on this, but it's not good enough that the cover to the fines box is on tight, it has to be on right. I'm only being a PIA about it because I put mine on wrong and the stove acted like you are describing. My cover has to go in at an angle, and go over a little lip, then pushed flush against the box itself.

That is definitely something that should be checked out. I know the way my stove is installed it can be tough to see if it is on correctly and I have to go by the feel of it slipping on, so you might want to just take it off, then reinstall (hey, and go ahead and vacuum out any sawdust in there while you are at it).