Help with a wood stove setup

[edwards1687]

Hi Guys,

I'm a newbie with wood stoves for the most part and I need some help figuring out what all I need to correctly and safely install a wood stove in my home. The house was all ready built to have a wood stove as it did by the previous owner. The chimney setup is half there I just need help finding the correct parts to finish the install and picking out a good wood stove. The chimney pipe that is currently there is a Temp/Guard Insulated pipe 11" OD/8" ID like this -

This is the wood stove space setup I have in my house

I guess thinking I would need to go with something like this (broken link removed) and then an 8" to 6" increaser/reducer because the wood stove I am looking to buy has a 6" inlet. This is the wood stove I was looking at purchasing - http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_425015_425015

Please give me your feedback. Thanks!

 

[fbelec]

your chimney looks ok depending on how old it is and how tall. you'll need to know how tall when you buy a stove to make sure that the stove will work with it's length.
as far as the stove, if you read the customer reviews one said something that if it were me i would stop looking at that stove. it said that there is no control for the air inlet. which means you can't control how hot the stove runs. that would be a safety problem for me because if you get some good firewood in there and can't turn it down from running to hot you could damage the house, people or most likely the stove.

 

[edwards1687]

As far as I know the chimney has not been in there too long. I believe since the mid 90's. Ok, so you don't recommend this wood stove; is there a wood stove that you could recommend for under $500 preferably? Thank You!

 

[Shari]

While I absolutely LOVE my Jotul, if your price point is lower then take a look at the Englander stoves: Great value!

http://www.englanderstoves.com/wood_stoves.html

We did look at the Englander line but it would not fit for our hearth mount requirements.

 

[Renovation]

While I absolutely LOVE my Jotul, if your price point is lower then take a look at the Englander stoves: Great value!

http://www.englanderstoves.com/wood_stoves.html

We did look at the Englander line but it would not fit for our hearth mount requirements.

+1

Welcome Edwards!

I'm not familiar with the particular stove you're interested in, but in general Vogelzang has an iffy reputation, and in particular that is an old technology, pre-EPA stove that will burn less efficiently with more smoke.

If you can swing it, I urge you to spend a little more and get a stove that folks here have reported is an excellent stove at a great price:

http://overstockstoves.com/50tvl17--epa-certified-noncatalytic-wood-stove--1250171200.html

It has a beautiful flame display, is easy to operate, and produces more heat and less smoke. You'll have the stove for a long time, so it's really worth it to get something you'll really enjoy.

 

[madison]

Cpl things, photo's can be deceiving, but the hearth dimensions look rather small. So you are going to have to do some homework to figure out what stove fits the 8" chimney as well as your clearances and potential hearth heat resistance issues.

Not that the previous owner did things per code, but it may help if you found out what stove he had there before you bought it.

My guess, he removed it prior to listing or inspection because it was not up to code.

And if you just completed redoing the wood flooring, yikes....



Edit:

I'll say noway will that stove which requires 28" clearance will fit in that spot. Better start reading page 3 of the manual, you also need .08 R hearth protection so unless that stone is laid onto a concrete slab another issue you will have to confront.

 

[edwards1687]

Cpl things, photo's can be deceiving, but the hearth dimensions look rather small. So you are going to have to do some homework to figure out what stove fits the 8" chimney as well as your clearances and potential hearth heat resistance issues.

Not that the previous owner did things per code, but it may help if you found out what stove he had there before you bought it.

My guess, he removed it prior to listing or inspection because it was not up to code.

And if you just completed redoing the wood flooring, yikes....



Edit:

I'll say noway will that stove which requires 28" clearance will fit in that spot. Better start reading page 3 of the manual, you also need .08 R hearth protection so unless that stone is laid onto a concrete slab another issue you will have to confront.

RenovationGeorge - Thanks for the recommendation!

The hearths dimensions are 68"x68" which are the span of the back walls from corner to end; and from the back corner to the front ledge is about 48". I don't know if this helps at all dimensions wise or not? Would I have to get a stove that fits an 8" chimney or would I be able to use a 8" to 6" reducer?

Just to clear things up about the house, I live in this house for free and I personally would never purchase it. I live/work/run a 3,000 acre hunting ranch and part of my job includes the house and free utilities, so I'm not complaining. The house itself was built in the 60's and the addition was put on the house (which is where the hearth is) was added on it the 90's. I don't know if it was built to code and to be honest I doubt the house has ever been inspected to meet codes; not saying it wasn't done correctly. I didn't just install all new laminate flooring back here and I'm not sure why that is a bad thing? The hearth looks to be built on a concrete slab, but I can not be certain.

I did talk to the man that lived here that had the wood stove in here and he told me that he removed the wood stove when he moved out because the wood stove he was using has been in his family for many years and he wanted to keep it. That being said, it also did have a 8" inlet on his stove but I can't say that I have seen any stoves with a 8".

Also I will not personally purchasing the wood stove so I'm trying the find the best wood stove for the money because they don't want to dump a ton of money in a new stove.

Here is a picture on the chimney pipe that exits the roof, I don't know if this helps at all or not...

Thanks guys!

 

[DonNC]

Make sure you inspect the existing pipe installation to make sure it has the clearances it is supposed to

 

[madison]

Try cutting a piece of cardboard to the length and width of the stove you are contemplating, and lay it on the hearth and leave at least 28" for the Voglzang from the rear corners to the wall. then measure from the front of the cardboard "stove" to the front edge of your stone hearth. Get an idea of what you are dealing with etc. the 48" from the rear corner to the front of the stone is gonna be an issue with the stove needing 28" corner clearances. Take a look at the foundation and see if you are on a slab or timbers.

You and others will no doubt be taking a nap or sleeping in this home with a burning stove, so consider the safety aspects.

 

[edwards1687]

What are pipe clearances supposed to be?

Madison, thanks for the tips. I think I ruled out the Voglzang anyway. I'm thinking that this stove - http://www.englanderstoves.com/50-svl17.html would be best for the depth of the hearth, because it isn't very deep. IF this is a good stove for my space what is the best/safest way to do the chimney with the existing setup?

 

[Shari]

I don't know if you've seen it, but here's a link to that stove's manual which might help you out with your chimney questions: http://www.englanderstoves.com/manuals/17-VL.pdf

I know you are working with a small hearth area and therefore looking for a small stove, but just bear in mind that model only has a 1.1 cu ft firebox - you will not get an overnight burn with that small of a firebox. Good brand though!

BTW Ignore that statement about a $1,500 tax credit as the credit expired 12/31/10. The new credit is $300 max. w/o installation costs.

 

[Renovation]

What are pipe clearances supposed to be?

Madison, thanks for the tips. I think I ruled out the Voglzang anyway. I'm thinking that this stove - http://www.englanderstoves.com/50-svl17.html would be best for the depth of the hearth, because it isn't very deep. IF this is a good stove for my space what is the best/safest way to do the chimney with the existing setup?

I'm confident you can make the 50-svl17 work.

Are you saying that the pipe in the photo is the 11" OD/8" ID Class A, and you need to put the stove pipe adapter on it?

In any case, to see how the 50-svl17 will fit, measure from the pipe centerline to the perpendicular point on each of the two side walls--look at the "corner installation" diagram on page 7 in the owners manual. If that distance is at least 17" (14" to flue collar, plus 3" flu radius) you can pop the stove in with a straight pipe down from the ceiling. If not, you'll need to put a jog in the pipe to move the stove forward enough to have that 17".

You may need to extend your hearth forward to meet the noncombustible floor surface protection, but there are a number of cheap, temporary solutions you can use that you can remove when you leave.

I'm glad to coach you, if someone else doesn't.

I think you'll like that stove. It isn't designed to heat a big house 24/7, but since you have FREE UTILITIES that isn't all that important, is it? People report it burns easy and clean, with a lovely flame display.

It is safe and legal to get a stove pipe adapter to go from your 6" stove to the 8" chimney. The wider flue has a greater chance of cooling down and stalling than a narrow one, but you have to work with what you have. There aren't many stoves with 8" flues, and they are big. You have the fact that the flue is interior and straight in you favor.

So see if you have a straight shot to the 50-svl17, and go from there.

HTH, and happy burning.

 

[edwards1687]

What are pipe clearances supposed to be?

Madison, thanks for the tips. I think I ruled out the Voglzang anyway. I'm thinking that this stove - http://www.englanderstoves.com/50-svl17.html would be best for the depth of the hearth, because it isn't very deep. IF this is a good stove for my space what is the best/safest way to do the chimney with the existing setup?

I'm confident you can make the 50-svl17 work.

Are you saying that the pipe in the photo is the 11" OD/8" ID Class A, and you need to put the stove pipe adapter on it?

In any case, to see how the 50-svl17 will fit, measure from the pipe centerline to the perpendicular point on each of the two side walls--look at the "corner installation" diagram on page 7 in the owners manual. If that distance is at least 17" (14" to flue collar, plus 3" flu radius) you can pop the stove in with a straight pipe down from the ceiling. If not, you'll need to put a jog in the pipe to move the stove forward enough to have that 17".

You may need to extend your hearth forward to meet the noncombustible floor surface protection, but there are a number of cheap, temporary solutions you can use that you can remove when you leave.

I'm glad to coach you, if someone else doesn't.

I think you'll like that stove. It isn't designed to heat a big house 24/7, but since you have FREE UTILITIES that isn't all that important, is it? People report it burns easy and clean, with a lovely flame display.

It is safe and legal to get a stove pipe adapter to go from your 6" stove to the 8" chimney. The wider flue has a greater chance of cooling down and stalling than a narrow one, but you have to work with what you have. There aren't many stoves with 8" flues, and they are big. You have the fact that the flue is interior and straight in you favor.

So see if you have a straight shot to the 50-svl17, and go from there.

HTH, and happy burning.

The pipe in the photo is a 11" OD/8" ID Class A and I would need some type adapter to make it work. I'm wondering if it would be more effective and easier to make the connection to the wood stove if I was to remove that 36" section of the 11" OD/8" ID pipe and put the up towards the ceiling where they connected (that you can see in the picture) and just jog it out from higher up? I will need to jog the pipe out with where the flue pipe comes straight down right now; from the edge of the 8" ID to the wall is only about 7" and would be at 8" once it was reduced to a 6" flue.

I'm not worried about having to try to heat the whole house all the time, it will mainly be used as another heating source to save on some utility costs for the owners.

This stove looks like it will be a great fit for the type of space I'm working with, I just need to get this whole piping thing figured out. I just don't know how to go about making it work?

Thanks for your help!

 

[afptl]

I found a used stove on craigslist. I just kept looking and then finding the manuals online and reading tons to see if it would work. I would look for a Lopi stove as they had the reduced clearances. You can always increase pipe from 6 inch to 8 inch. Maybe a drolet stove as well. I ended up with a vermont castings intrepid (small stove) since it fit into the fireplace. Really there is a lot of junk but some finds on craigslist. checked cities within 150 miles of me as well as ebay. use the search feature to narrow search to a reasonable mileage to your home. I even called Buck stove to talk to them about one. I could have bought heat shields to reduce clearances. The buck stove people were easy to reach and talk to. They make a quality product. I would have had something different, but had to have something that hubby could see the fire! Ann from KY

 

[Wade A.]

And.....trim those tree branches back a ways before you fire it up, I'd suggest.

 

[edwards1687]

I've been looking on Craigslist for several months now with not much luck. I have found a few but they are either too big or they are just more than the owners would like to spend.

I talked to the owners today about getting this stove - http://overstockstoves.com/50tvl17—epa-certified-noncatalytic-wood-stove—1250171200.html and they gave me the go ahead so I guess the main thing is just finding out all the pieces I need to put it together and get it going!

The trim will be getting a trimming very soon.

Thanks

 

[Renovation]

What are pipe clearances supposed to be?

Madison, thanks for the tips. I think I ruled out the Voglzang anyway. I'm thinking that this stove - http://www.englanderstoves.com/50-svl17.html would be best for the depth of the hearth, because it isn't very deep. IF this is a good stove for my space what is the best/safest way to do the chimney with the existing setup?

I'm confident you can make the 50-svl17 work.

Are you saying that the pipe in the photo is the 11" OD/8" ID Class A, and you need to put the stove pipe adapter on it?

In any case, to see how the 50-svl17 will fit, measure from the pipe centerline to the perpendicular point on each of the two side walls--look at the "corner installation" diagram on page 7 in the owners manual. If that distance is at least 17" (14" to flue collar, plus 3" flu radius) you can pop the stove in with a straight pipe down from the ceiling. If not, you'll need to put a jog in the pipe to move the stove forward enough to have that 17".

You may need to extend your hearth forward to meet the noncombustible floor surface protection, but there are a number of cheap, temporary solutions you can use that you can remove when you leave.

I'm glad to coach you, if someone else doesn't.

I think you'll like that stove. It isn't designed to heat a big house 24/7, but since you have FREE UTILITIES that isn't all that important, is it? People report it burns easy and clean, with a lovely flame display.

It is safe and legal to get a stove pipe adapter to go from your 6" stove to the 8" chimney. The wider flue has a greater chance of cooling down and stalling than a narrow one, but you have to work with what you have. There aren't many stoves with 8" flues, and they are big. You have the fact that the flue is interior and straight in you favor.

So see if you have a straight shot to the 50-svl17, and go from there.

HTH, and happy burning.

Thanks for your help!

Hi Edwards,

You're very welcome--I hope to contribute by passing on what I've learned. It also helps me check and deepen my understanding.

The pipe in the photo is a 11" OD/8" ID Class A and I would need some type adapter to make it work. I'm wondering if it would be more effective and easier to make the connection to the wood stove if I was to remove that 36" section of the 11" OD/8" ID pipe and put the up towards the ceiling where they connected (that you can see in the picture) and just jog it out from higher up? I will need to jog the pipe out with where the flue pipe comes straight down right now; from the edge of the 8" ID to the wall is only about 7" and would be at 8" once it was reduced to a 6" flue.

Yes, I think I follow you, and what you propose makes sense, with one important change. To meet code, you need to use *double* wall stove pipe after your adapter, not single. So yeah, I'd suggest removing that last section of Class A, installing a *double* wall adapter of the same brand, then a pair of elbows with a straight section between to get the forward offset you need. I think NorthlineExpress.com is a great source for the parts, and especially the manuals and installation guides you need for that brand of pipe. The manual should tell you the combination of stovepipe elbows and straight stove pipe that will give you enough offset. If you get stuck, I'm glad to help.

I'm not worried about having to try to heat the whole house all the time, it will mainly be used as another heating source to save on some utility costs for the owners.

IMO the 17 is a great choice for your application, and will give you some fantastic flame and warmth ambiance.

This stove looks like it will be a great fit for the type of space I'm working with, I just need to get this whole piping thing figured out. I just don't know how to go about making it work?

You're getting there. Just:

Use the stove manual to figure out the position, as I posted before.

Then determine the pipe parts to connect it in that position, as discussed above.

Then figure out your hearth requirements, from the stove manual, and this link:

https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/articles/hearth_design

Hopefully, the most you'll have to do is extend the non-combustible surface in front of the stove forward, but you may need to extend the raised portion, if the stove overhangs it. Either way, there's an easy, safe, temporary solution. Just keep checking in, and we'll help you through it.

Good luck!

 

[Renovation]

I talked to the owners today about getting this stove - http://overstockstoves.com/50tvl17—epa-certified-noncatalytic-wood-stove—1250171200.html and they gave me the go ahead so I guess the main thing is just finding out all the pieces I need to put it together and get it going!

Yay! :coolsmile:

 

[edwards1687]

What are pipe clearances supposed to be?

Madison, thanks for the tips. I think I ruled out the Voglzang anyway. I'm thinking that this stove - http://www.englanderstoves.com/50-svl17.html would be best for the depth of the hearth, because it isn't very deep. IF this is a good stove for my space what is the best/safest way to do the chimney with the existing setup?

I'm confident you can make the 50-svl17 work.

Are you saying that the pipe in the photo is the 11" OD/8" ID Class A, and you need to put the stove pipe adapter on it?

In any case, to see how the 50-svl17 will fit, measure from the pipe centerline to the perpendicular point on each of the two side walls--look at the "corner installation" diagram on page 7 in the owners manual. If that distance is at least 17" (14" to flue collar, plus 3" flu radius) you can pop the stove in with a straight pipe down from the ceiling. If not, you'll need to put a jog in the pipe to move the stove forward enough to have that 17".

You may need to extend your hearth forward to meet the noncombustible floor surface protection, but there are a number of cheap, temporary solutions you can use that you can remove when you leave.

I'm glad to coach you, if someone else doesn't.

I think you'll like that stove. It isn't designed to heat a big house 24/7, but since you have FREE UTILITIES that isn't all that important, is it? People report it burns easy and clean, with a lovely flame display.

It is safe and legal to get a stove pipe adapter to go from your 6" stove to the 8" chimney. The wider flue has a greater chance of cooling down and stalling than a narrow one, but you have to work with what you have. There aren't many stoves with 8" flues, and they are big. You have the fact that the flue is interior and straight in you favor.

So see if you have a straight shot to the 50-svl17, and go from there.

HTH, and happy burning.

Thanks for your help!

Hi Edwards,

You're very welcome--I hope to contribute by passing on what I've learned. It also helps me check and deepen my understanding.

The pipe in the photo is a 11" OD/8" ID Class A and I would need some type adapter to make it work. I'm wondering if it would be more effective and easier to make the connection to the wood stove if I was to remove that 36" section of the 11" OD/8" ID pipe and put the up towards the ceiling where they connected (that you can see in the picture) and just jog it out from higher up? I will need to jog the pipe out with where the flue pipe comes straight down right now; from the edge of the 8" ID to the wall is only about 7" and would be at 8" once it was reduced to a 6" flue.

Yes, I think I follow you, and what you propose makes sense, with one important change. To meet code, you need to use *double* wall stove pipe after your adapter, not single. So yeah, I'd suggest removing that last section of Class A, installing a *double* wall adapter of the same brand, then a pair of elbows with a straight section between to get the forward offset you need. I think NorthlineExpress.com is a great source for the parts, and especially the manuals and installation guides you need for that brand of pipe. The manual should tell you the combination of stovepipe elbows and straight stove pipe that will give you enough offset. If you get stuck, I'm glad to help.

I'm not worried about having to try to heat the whole house all the time, it will mainly be used as another heating source to save on some utility costs for the owners.

IMO the 17 is a great choice for your application, and will give you some fantastic flame and warmth ambiance.

This stove looks like it will be a great fit for the type of space I'm working with, I just need to get this whole piping thing figured out. I just don't know how to go about making it work?

You're getting there. Just:

Use the stove manual to figure out the position, as I posted before.

Then determine the pipe parts to connect it in that position, as discussed above.

Then figure out your hearth requirements, from the stove manual, and this link:

https://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/articles/hearth_design

Hopefully, the most you'll have to do is extend the non-combustible surface in front of the stove forward, but you may need to extend the raised portion, if the stove overhangs it. Either way, there's an easy, safe, temporary solution. Just keep checking in, and we'll help you through it.

Good luck!

Ok, I understand what you are saying about have to stick with the double walled chimney pipe. In that would it be easier to help the existing section on double walled pipe in place to save money or not? After looking at the pipe that it is in place I found out that it is this product (broken link removed to http://www.hardwareandtools.com/American-Metal-8HS-36-Ameri-Tec-Insulated-Chimney-Pipe-36-By-8-Inch-6819254.html). I'm having a hard time finding the correct double walled adapter to get to the 6" with the elbows and all. If you could help me out that would be great! Thanks again

 

[Renovation]

Yes, I think I follow you, and what you propose makes sense, with one important change. To meet code, you need to use *double* wall stove pipe after your adapter, not single. So yeah, I'd suggest removing that last section of Class A, installing a *double* wall adapter of the same brand, then a pair of elbows with a straight section between to get the forward offset you need. I think NorthlineExpress.com is a great source for the parts, and especially the manuals and installation guides you need for that brand of pipe. The manual should tell you the combination of stovepipe elbows and straight stove pipe that will give you enough offset. If you get stuck, I'm glad to help.

Ok, I understand what you are saying about have to stick with the double walled chimney pipe. In that would it be easier to help the existing section on double walled pipe in place to save money or not? After looking at the pipe that it is in place I found out that it is this product (broken link removed to http://www.hardwareandtools.com/American-Metal-8HS-36-Ameri-Tec-Insulated-Chimney-Pipe-36-By-8-Inch-6819254.html). I'm having a hard time finding the correct double walled adapter to get to the 6" with the elbows and all. If you could help me out that would be great! Thanks again

Okay, let's take a step back, and make sure we're on the same page.

There are two parts to the flue--the stove pipe, which *usually* runs up from the stove to a connector on a wall or ceiling, can have bends in it, and can be single or double wall. The second part, *usually* after the connector in the ceiling or wall, is either a masonry flue, or a "Class A chimney pipe". This is double or triple wall, can only have 30 degree bends at the most, and is rated for very high temperatures. That's what's in your link.

So it's Class A Chimney pipe up high, single or double wall stove pipe down low, adapter between, both are part of the flue pipe.

Make sense?

In your case, you seem to be saying that the Class A pipe runs *through* the ceiling, not ending at the ceiling, and all the pipe in your photo is still the Class A. Correct? That would be an unusual setup, and I suggest you check what is happening at your ceiling, and make sure there is not an adapter there, as there usually is.

If you do have Class A running all the way, you have to find a Chimney pipe to stovepipe adapter, from the same manufacturer, to make it work, regardless of whether you remove a section of the Class A chimney pipe. This is crucial.

In any case, I recommend removing the last section of pipe, and have an adapter up there, whether one already in your ceiling or, if there isn't one, one you buy. That's because double-wall stovepipe is cheaper than Class A, and can have sharper bends in it, allowing you more flexibility in your install.

I hope this makes sense. Check your setup, reread my posts, and see if you think you understand your situation.

Then let me know what you discover. I hope this helps, and am glad to help more

 

[edwards1687]

Ok, I understand what you are saying now. Yes, it is Class A pipe running *at least* from the ceiling down; I haven't been up in the attic to look at at what kind of adapter or setup is going on up there. I'll try and get up there tomorrow and see what it looks like and take a few pictures.

On a more positive note I just ordered the Englander 17-VL! Now I just need to get this mess taken care...

 

[Renovation]

Ok, I understand what you are saying now. Yes, it is Class A pipe running *at least* from the ceiling down; I haven't been up in the attic to look at at what kind of adapter or setup is going on up there. I'll try and get up there tomorrow and see what it looks like and take a few pictures.

On a more positive note I just ordered the Englander 17-VL! Now I just need to get this mess taken care...

Don't worry, it's only a mess until you get it sorted out.

Congrats on the Englander.

Okay, if it's Class A ceiling down, that probably tells us what we need to know, though looking in your attic is a good idea. Make sure there is no sign of leaks or other weirdness, that nothing is within 2" of the pipe, and that there are metal fittings at your ceiling and roof--posting photos would be a good idea.

I did a bit of Googling, and the best adapter I found is this:

(broken link removed to http://www.hardwareandtools.com/American-Metal-8SWA-Chimney-Single-Wall-Adaptor-8-Inch-6970339.html)

Which unfortunately, is designed to adapt to single wall stove pipe, not the double wall that you'll have to use due to your 8" clearance to your Class A pipe.

I wonder if that's why the previous install used class A until it was below the wall--so they could use single wall at that point. Though it violated minimum clearance requirements, at least a rock covered wall takes longer to burst into flames.

EDIT: Or maybe they managed to run the Class A pipe right into their stove.

Yeah it's messy now, but we can make it work. I'm thinking we can remove that last section of Class A, figure a way to connect double wall stovepipe to the single wall adapter and, if we have to, put a metal shield around the junction to protect your wall.

Hang in there. We'll get it sorted out and I trust one of the experts here will jump in if I get out of line.

Make sense? Have a great night.

 

[Renovation]

Another option--we could run single wall stovepipe with a shield if we can't get the double wall to mate to the single wall connector. You'd be better off with double wall, though.

 

[edwards1687]

I haven't had a chance to get up into the attic today, got tied up around here today. Hopefully tomorrow I'll get up there tomorrow and figure some things out.

Why is a double wall chimney better than a single?

 

[Renovation]

I haven't had a chance to get up into the attic today, got tied up around here today. Hopefully tomorrow I'll get up there tomorrow and figure some things out.

Why is a double wall chimney better than a single?

No prob, thanks for checking in.

Remember, we're talking stove-pipe here. Gotta keep these terms straight. Class A chimney pipe is always at least double wall, and sometimes triple.

Double wall stove pipe is better because:

The outside stays cooler, so it is less likely to burn someone or set your house on fire.

It keeps your exhaust gas hotter, so your chimney draws better, and clogs up less with evil creosote.

The inner wall is usually stainless steel, so the pipe lasts longer. I can't remember the exact figures, but for example, Simpson offers a better guarantee on double wall than single wall.

Have a great one!