Help -- Question, New Ashford Installation

[firebroad]

I don't know what is prettier, the stove or that lovely wood shed.

 

[Parallax]

Good questions. Better than most would have this early in their experience and in the summer.

1) These stoves smoke. All stoves smoke at the start, but the BK will occasionaly emit usually bluish light smoke even when the cat is very active and glowing. There are a few reasons but there are no solutions. I have always had a much easier time getting my non-cat stoves to burn smoke free. Some of that is dilution since the non-cats pass immense amounts of heated air though the firebox and the BK limits combustion air. So don't sweat it.

2) Don't disengage the cat until you open the door or reload. If you are having problems with the cat meter dropping to inactive when there is still lots of fuel left then you need to set the stat higher. Snuffing the cat this way makes a mess out of your window, the chimney, and can be smokey so corrective action is needed. You'll quickly learn where your "low" setting is and as long as you stay over that you won't have cat inactivity until the cat runs out of fuel. Just leave the cat engaged until reload.

3) You can't know if this stove is running too hot. All the standard rules apply of course such as "no part of the stove shall glow red". The cat meter supplied by BK is only effective for knowing when to engage the cat. It's a pass/fail device. After that, you're on your own. Sure you can (and I do) install a flue probe meter to measure exhaust gas temps, and you can set a surface meter on the stove top but here's the problem. The cat is what makes the stove hot so you have a very hot spot right on top of the cat and the rest of the stove is relatively cold. This is the beauty of the cat/stat combination on this stove. The stat will regulate the temperature so you don't have to worry. Boring? Yes, but very effective. Due to the long burn times, you will find that you don't need to run the stove hot very often. Get your house warm and keep it warm with a low setting.

3a) You specifically mention the chimney. Well I have a probe meter to measure stack temps and with the non-cat stoves it is very possible and likely to overfire your chimney system. My BK also has a probe in its stack and what I have found is that the cat meter is always into the active range well before the flue temps reach unsafe levels. So long as you engage your cat when the meter hits the active range, your flue should be fine.

Thanks Highbeam. This is really helpful. Based on what you've said in 3a, I take it that once I engage the cat, the stove can't be overfired even if I leave the thermostat all the way up with a full load of wood. Is that right? I ask because there may be times when I have guests over and want a nice fire show. Can that be done safely?

 

[Parallax]

I don't know what is prettier, the stove or that lovely wood shed.

Thanks FB. I'm really pleased with the way both have turned out. I feel very fortunate.

 

[HotCoals]

Thanks Highbeam. This is really helpful. Based on what you've said in 3a, I take it that once I engage the cat, the stove can't be overfired even if I leave the thermostat all the way up with a full load of wood. Is that right? I ask because there may be times when I have guests over and want a nice fire show. Can that be done safely?

You may get things very hot if you do that depending on wood/draft and what not.
Turn it up till you have some nice flame going...you don't need to impress with a roaring inferno.

 

[Highbeam]

Thanks Highbeam. This is really helpful. Based on what you've said in 3a, I take it that once I engage the cat, the stove can't be overfired even if I leave the thermostat all the way up with a full load of wood. Is that right? I ask because there may be times when I have guests over and want a nice fire show. Can that be done safely?

This is the struggle of the serious wood burner with a serious wood heater. To leave this stove on high for any length of time you will want to start out with a cold house and open doors. I have never run full throttle with a full load for any length of time, no need or desire for that much heat. In theory, according to the manual, any stat setting between 1 and 3 is fine.

So how do you make a flame show with the BK? Instead of high, I have found that even a medium setting makes some flame. Smaller loads and higher stat settings, like above 50% throttle, will be your best bet for max flame and lowest heat output. You'll still want to start with a cooler house.

Do you have an outdoor firepit? I have found more friends impressed that the BK stove is even operating. They feel the heat but see no fire or smoke. It's a funny moment when they reach out to touch the cold looking stove. I say, yes, that stove was loaded yesterday... 20 hours ago, and hold this cold beverage to soothe your burnt fingers.

 

[Parallax]

That's funny. I've noticed that the thermostat turns up past 3. Well past it in fact. When I turn it all the way up (to something north of 3 1/2), the fire comes roaring to life. You can see in my photo to the left what it looks like when I run it that way. Would that qualify as a dangerous inferno or am I alright? This question is addressed to both HC and HB (and whomever else wants to take a stab at it). Thanks.

 

[BCC_Burner]

Do you have a probe thermometer in your catalyst and in your (presumably) double wall stove pipe? I'm not sure what the exact "max" temps are for those spots with this stove, but I would get those thermos installed. That way you have some concrete data to base your call on whether or not you are getting the stove too hot. It seems like BK stoves are controllable enough that even if it got away from you, you could dial down the thermostat and reign it in.

 

[Highbeam]

That's funny. I've noticed that the thermostat turns up past 3. Well past it in fact. When I turn it all the way up (to something north of 3 1/2), the fire comes roaring to life. You can see in my photo to the left what it looks like when I run it that way. Would that qualify as a dangerous inferno or am I alright? This question is addressed to both HC and HB (and whomever else wants to take a stab at it). Thanks.

It's not the amount of flames but the duration of a high fire event that can cause damage. You can pass your finger through a candle's flame without being burned as well.

That photo shows fire and it can be described as an inferno but without more information I would certainly not call it dangerous. There can be times where all you see is a wall of fire and no harm is done. The manual gives (gave on the princess) a range of normal operation after cat engagement that stops at the #3 so going higher than that can possibly cause damage. It will take time though. I always start fires and open doors with the cat bypass open and throttle at 100% which is like 3.5+.

 

[Highbeam]

It seems like BK stoves are controllable enough that even if it got away from you, you could dial down the thermostat and reign it in.

Funny thing about cat stoves, sometimes turning the stat down to reduce intake air actually makes them hotter! Doing so will certainly reduce flames and on the BK it is very easy (boring) to get the behavior you desire.

 

[HotCoals]

That's funny. I've noticed that the thermostat turns up past 3. Well past it in fact. When I turn it all the way up (to something north of 3 1/2), the fire comes roaring to life. You can see in my photo to the left what it looks like when I run it that way. Would that qualify as a dangerous inferno or am I alright? This question is addressed to both HC and HB (and whomever else wants to take a stab at it). Thanks.

It's hard to say but you will know it when it gets too hot. You may hear crackling in the pipes,you may smell the heat,you may see some glowing but you will know it when it happens. The stove will burn hotter when it gets really cold out because of a stronger draft. Will there be a disaster if you set the t-stat to high and leave the house? Probably not but I don't like to gamble with my house.

 

[Parallax]

Thanks for all the feedback. Can anyone suggest thermometers for the stove top and pipe? I have no idea how to measure the temperature of the catalyst since that's inside the stove. Can it even be seen while the stove is running? Also, do such thermometers just stick onto the stove and pipe or do I have to get someone to install them?

 

[webby3650]

You don't need any more thermometers. You already have a cat probe thermometer. Thats the one right on top of the stove. A stove top thermometer is ok, but almost useless with this stove. The convection top prevents it from reading accurately. With a BK, I see absolutely no reason for a pipe prob thermometer.

 

[HotCoals]

With a BK, I see absolutely no reason for a pipe prob thermometer.

I dunno I kinda like knowing the pipe temp even if it isn't all that accurate.
I have just single wall so just a mag type one but it gives me a base line to work from.
I like to watch it when I'm firing up a new load and from across the room where i sit i can see that but not the cat probe or when just walking through the room I can tell easy what my stove is doing.
Do I really need it..no.
Do I need my key damper..no but I can't seem to bring myself to take it out..lol.

Pretty sure he has double wall so he would need a probe.
If it was mine I prolly would.
I'm the guy that who is also playing with his ir temp gun all the times also..nuff said..lol.

 

[Parallax]

You don't need any more thermometers. You already have a cat probe thermometer. Thats the one right on top of the stove. A stove top thermometer is ok, but almost useless with this stove. The convection top prevents it from reading accurately. With a BK, I see absolutely no reason for a pipe prob thermometer.

Webby, how long can I run it like in the photo without putting too much heat into the chimney pipe? Wouldn't it be a good thing to have if I want to get a nice fire going in the box sometimes? The chimney is double walled so it's sounding like any thermometer would require some sort of installation. I can loosen the three screws holding the pipes together to run a brush up there but I'm guessing a thermometer install would be more involved.

 

[webby3650]

Once you get used to this stove you will all the confidence in the world. Thermometers are fine, but very inaccurate with this stove and double wall pipe. A probe will give a good reading, but what does that mean? It will likely just alarm you.
You will also find no need to run it on the highest setting. It shouldnt be necessary for more than a few minutes. Lots of flames ripping through the cat isn't good for long periods of time. So just keep it to a minimum to keep it safe.

 

[HotCoals]

You will also find no need to run it on the highest setting. It shouldnt be necessary for more than a few minutes. Lots of flames ripping through the cat isn't good for long periods of time. So just keep it to a minimum to keep it safe.

I agree with all that 100%.
Once my stove is up to temp it's usually set to around 1.5 and I know the t-stat doesn't really ever open much till it's almost stone cold then I open it way up to burn the coals down for maybe another 3 or 4 hours of great heat.

 

[Parallax]

What if you're having friends over one night and want a nice fire in the box? I could imagine opening a window (if necessary) and letting her rip. But not if it's going to damage something.

 

[HotCoals]

What if you're having friends over one night and want a nice fire in the box? I could imagine opening a window (if necessary) and letting her rip. But not if it's going to damage something.

Nothing wrong with some flame. You will see what we are talking about come winter.

My stove has metal flame guard and my cat is 4 years old and there is no flame damage to it and I have had some flame shows believe me..mostly walking out of the room and forgetting the air was way up to get a new load going.
I'm sure the Ashford has the same deal.
You made a good choice!

 

[webby3650]

What if you're having friends over one night and want a nice fire in the box? I could imagine opening a window (if necessary) and letting her rip. But not if it's going to damage something.

For a short time it won't hurt anything. I also find people to be way more interested in the lack of fire. It looks like the fire has completely gone out, but the stove is still 400 degrees! That's more impressive!

 

[Parallax]

For a short time it won't hurt anything. I also find people to be way more interested in the lack of fire. It looks like the fire has completely gone out, but the stove is still 400 degrees! That's more impressive!

Will be interesting to witness people's reaction to the smoldering, which is damn impressive. When you say short time, what does that mean? Ten minutes? Three hours?

 

[Parallax]

Nothing wrong with some flame. You will see what we are talking about come winter.

My stove has metal flame guard and my cat is 4 years old and there is no flame damage to it and I have had some flame shows believe me..mostly walking out of the room and forgetting the air was way up to get a new load going.
I'm sure the Ashford has the same deal.
You made a good choice!

Thanks. I appreciate the feedback.

 

[webby3650]

There's no reason to run any stove on high for 3 hours if its properly sized. I've ran mine on high for an hour or so. But that's only if I came home to a cold house, I have no other heat source and leaky windows.

 

[Prichan]

Tha

Thanks fellas. It seems to be lessening. I've got the windows open and a box fan blowing air outside.

I knew there was burn-in, but I had no idea I'd see plums of smoke. Really scared me. Thank God I didn't call the fire department. Imagine those guys coming into my home, axes in hand, and shooting their extinguishers into my new Ashford. Tragedy averted!

Hey Webby, it's a new stove. A gorgeous new brown enamel Ashford. How can I not burn it?

View attachment 134492 View attachment 134493

t is a sweet looking stove. Congrats!

 

[Highbeam]

Thanks for all the feedback. Can anyone suggest thermometers for the stove top and pipe? I have no idea how to measure the temperature of the catalyst since that's inside the stove. Can it even be seen while the stove is running? Also, do such thermometers just stick onto the stove and pipe or do I have to get someone to install them?

For the double wall pipe a condar probe thermometer is the only option and it is a good meter. The condar is made for measuring flue temps inside a double wall 6" pipe it is relatively accurate and very easy to install. I have one in my double wall pipe too. You simply drill a hole (of specified size) through both pipes at a certain height above the stove and then chuck up another specified drill bit and use the first hole as a pilot to enlarge the hole in the outer pipe only. The probe meter just slides right in and sticks with a magnet. Works great and is the only really useful add on meter to a BK stove setup. This chimney doesn't know what stove is beneath it, you are monitoring the chimney for safe high temperatures as well as safe low temperatures to be sure you are above the creo forming range and yes, the BK will make some creo.

For stove top meters, I tend to agree with webby. They are of limited value even without fans running. This is mostly due to the way a cat stove burns the smoke from a cold fire at the catalyst to make most of the heat. I have a stove top meter on mine, many brands are available for low cost and they just sit there.

As mentioned, you already have a cat meter. It is only important to know whether it is active or inactive.

Get used to setting your thermostat based on desired output and loading your stove to the gills. It may not seem intuitive but you will stuff that stove full and then dial heat output to where you want it with the thermostat. That's all you do to operate this stove, kinda boring right?

 

[Highbeam]

What if you're having friends over one night and want a nice fire in the box? I could imagine opening a window (if necessary) and letting her rip. But not if it's going to damage something.

If you've done your job the house will already be 75 degrees inside and your friends will be keeping their houses at 62 to conserve energy. They will feel the heat, there cheeks will flush, they will set down and put their feet up, ladies might even lose some clothing, and bask in the warmth. You don't need flame to have comfort and once they have enough heat their brains will actually not desire to see flames.

I have a woodstove in my shop and the stove at 700 degrees is a great thing to gather around and watch when the shop air is at 40. This time of year the shop air is at 80 and nobody misses the fire.