Help me zero in on some tractor options

[jeffesonm]

Primary use is for skidding firewood out, but at some point I may decide to do some amateur logging on some of my nicer trees and save the cost/cut of a logger doing it. One idea someone else gave me that got me to thinking is a used E series Cat bulldozer that had a big winch on it. Think it would be a breeze keeping my trails open in the winter with something like that. Still not convinced though. I'd be giving up some flexibility and ground speed with it though.

My first tractor was a mini bull dozer of sorts... an Oliver OC-46:

Actually I had two... one with a blade and the other with a bucket. (Compared to the price of the John Deere, I could have 6!) They were awesome on the hills because you would never lose traction and the super low center of gravity made them super stable. Fantastic machines for dragging logs or making trails, and just plain old fun to drive around. But in terms of overall utility, there's just no comparison to a compact tractor. No 3 point hitch for attachments and don't even think of taking it on your lawn or driveway.

I would forget about the amateur logging for now and just focus on the other stuff. I think you will make too many compromises trying to get one machine that does it all. Any decent size compact tractor will admirably accomplish tasks b) through g). If you end up wanting to do some logging you could rent a small dozer (or maybe even a skidder?) for a day/week.

 

[TreePointer]

...But in terms of overall utility, there's just no comparison to a compact tractor. No 3 point hitch for attachments and don't even think of taking it on your lawn or driveway.

I would forget about the amateur logging for now and just focus on the other stuff. I think you will make too many compromises trying to get one machine that does it all. Any decent size compact tractor will admirably accomplish tasks b) through g). If you end up wanting to do some logging you could rent a small dozer (or maybe even a skidder?) for a day/week.

Excellent advice. There things I need to do and things I'd like to do around the farm. Addressing first the needs leads to happiness.

 

[jebatty]

My woodlands total about 180 acres, plus wetlands. In 2004 I bought a Kubota L3400 (34 hp, 4WD, R4 industrial tires), manual transmission, along with a FEL, grapple bucket, pallet forks, box blade, dirt bucket, extra hydraulic spool, and PTO brush mower. I also then added a well used disc and a very old green 2 bottom plow. Importantly, I got a quick-tach for the front end loader that enables easy use of most skid steer equipment. And for the 3 point I made a rack that holds a barrel filled with cement for a counterweight when using front end equipment. About 300 hours on it now. Very pleased with the choice.

Pluses:
- narrow width, easy to work through the woods
- plenty of power, very smooth, light on the fuel
- only fluid changes, no repairs required

Minuses:
- narrow width, need to be very careful to prevent tipping, especially with front end equipment or on slopes
- front load capacity includes the FEL attachment, not just the load
- hydraulic pump wont handle high volume accessories
- a counterweight is nearly essential to allow most front end loader work

Comments:
a) Skid trees - I avoid as much as possible, bark fills with dirt, not good for the chainsaw or sawmill. Also, very easy to tip the tractor. I do use a lifting tongs and a skidding tongs on occasion. Slopes are very tricky and dangerous.
b) move cut wood - lifts and moves almost all logs, 8 - 12' in length. The pallet forks get used more than any other implement, usually can lift several logs at a time.
c) move boulders - these are heavier than might be expected, can easily exceed lift capacity
d) road maintenance and drain outs - box blade and bucket work well
e) food plot maintenance - plow and disc work here
f) minor backhoe digger around the pond - considered but don't have
g) snow removal - don't use for this, traction on ice/snow is limited

 

[bpirger]

I would recommend a 3PT winch if you want to do logging/firewood work. I have a Wallenstein on my Zetor 5245. While there is still a good deal of walking back and forth as a log snags on something as I skid it toward the logging road, I can then skid an entire load (always at least one tree, sometimes two) to the wood shed where I buck it, split, and stack. No more bucking in the woods, hauling to the logging road, hauling in the trailer, etc. As stated above though, this does mean the logs will pick up dirt and chain sharpening has to become a decent skill. But being able to skid things from over 150' from a logging road in the woods, not to mention to very easily be able to pull down snags when they get hung up in another tree, is very useful.

 

[rt014]

I would recommend a 3PT winch if you want to do logging/firewood work.

Yep, a winch is a given. I have one on my Rhino and we use it quite a bit to drag trees out to where we can then hook a choker on them or cut them up where they lie.

 

[flyingcow]

My 2 cents.

Going to use it in the woods? No cab, just a roll bar with lap belt.You will beat the snot out of a cab in the woods. And you will catch the roll bar on a few limbs, but it's a must with a tractor in the woods. as pointed, these can be pretty tippy at times.

Snow removal? Snowblower? front or rear mount? Front mounted units need a mid mount pto, usually.

Or just a plow?

A winter cab is nice. heater is a plus, but not needed. You're already dressed for winter, but a cab that will keep the snow off you is a plus. A snowblower will throw a tremendous amount of snow in your lap, and down your neck.

back hoe? I got a great deal on my tractor. BH was on the tractor when I bought it. Fun to play with. Dug a few holes. After that? Didn't use it. Sold it for $6500.00 Once in a blue moon if i need BH work. Call a local guy, That $6500 will go a long ways for me.

Rimgaurd for loaded tires. IMO Either go with R-1's or industrial tires. Since you're going in the woods, I'd probably lean towards industrials. They should be a heavier ply tire. Also, have the valve stems protected. Brush will rip out a stem pretty easily.

Also, I agree that pallet forks are very nice to have. You'll use them more than you realize.

I had some extra money a couple of years ago. Bought a nice FEL mounted root grapple. A little extravagant but they're some handy when handling brush/logs/etc. But you can get an attachment that will mount on top of a bucket or pallet forks that clamp down on the material you're handling. That being said, if I'm not careful the root grapple will beat the crap out of you and the tractor if not careful.

Size of tractor. As someone pointed out. Figure out how wide you want your implements.

 

[semipro]

Bought a nice FEL mounted root grapple. A little extravagant but they're some handy when handling brush/logs/etc. But you can get an attachment that will mount on top of a bucket or pallet forks that clamp down on the material you're handling.

I used to see this as an extravagance too but am starting to think it might get more use than my other implements if I had one. I spend way too much time dealing with brush piles manually or making a mess trying to move them with the FEL.

 

[flyingcow]

I used to see this as an extravagance too but am starting to think it might get more use than my other implements if I had one. I spend way too much time dealing with brush piles manually or making a mess trying to move them with the FEL.

Another recommendation. Put a 3rd function on FEL. That will be there when you hook up the grapple or add on "thumb" to bucket or forks.

 

[HybridFyre]

All these lengthy posts about people's tractors...with no pictures!!

 

[TreePointer]

All these lengthy posts about people's tractors...with no pictures!!

I don't have many good pics of the CUT, but here are a couple I uploaded a while back. I'll try to get some with implements over the next few months.

1999 JD 4600 CUT, 460 FEL, 6' bucket, ~3450 lbs w/o FEL, 4 cylinder 43 hp Yanmar diesel, 35 hp Rear PTO. (Always stored inside a barn with concrete floor. That's why the paint still looks good.)

(broken image removed)
(broken image removed)

 

[Ashful]

Not as nice as TreePonter's, but here's my machine.

 

[flyingcow]

 

[711mhw]

Dealer support & reputation (and location) should be a big part of your decision. I'm partial to Kubota, they make the whole tractor and seem to demand a high level of dealer service, inventory & training while remaining competitive in their pricing.
Here's my wannabe skidder,

 

[rt014]

Dealer support & reputation (and location) should be a big part of your decision. I'm partial to Kubota, they make the whole tractor and seem to demand a high level of dealer service, inventory & training while remaining competitive in their pricing.
Here's my wannabe skidder,

That looks like a kickass machine. Can you tell me more about it, approximate cost, what the attachments are and whether they were standard Kubota attachments?

Thanks

 

[711mhw]

That looks like a kickass machine. Can you tell me more about it, approximate cost, what the attachments are and whether they were standard Kubota attachments?

Thanks

Well, I had the root rake (grapple), it also go's on my skidsteer. The log winch on the back I built along with the canopy and the limb "sweeps", front grill guard and the plow (frame) mount. There's a full "belly pan" from the front to the back made out of 1/4" plate to keep the essential oil's on the inside.
I found that plow for $600 last fall and didn't want it on the loader arms and I needed the loader's hyd circuits to operate the plow anyway.
My brother says I'm pimpin out my tractor, I just like to make stuff out of a pile of metal. The tractor is the only Kubota "part" to get to your question. Like I said, it's my wannabe skidder.

 

[semipro]

That is a sweet rig!

 

[simple.serf]

I'm a Massey guy. I grew up with Deere, but they think their parts are made of gold. I also have found that I prefer gas engines, as I can buy a worn out gas unit for 1/8 of the price of a diesel, and only the engine will be worn out, not the whole machine. We run a small vegetable and poultry farm as a side business, and we use our equipment every day. We saved alot of money by buying the stuff that nobody wanted and setting it up for our needs.

 

[flyingcow]

I'm a Massey guy. I grew up with Deere, but they think their parts are made of gold. I also have found that I prefer gas engines, as I can buy a worn out gas unit for 1/8 of the price of a diesel, and only the engine will be worn out, not the whole machine. We run a small vegetable and poultry farm as a side business, and we use our equipment every day. We saved alot of money by buying the stuff that nobody wanted and setting it up for our needs.

That's a smart way to do it. Plus diesel is higher priced than gas now. And a gas job is cheaper to service. As long as you do regular oil changes, clean air filters and have good cooling gas jobs will last a long time.

 

[Ashful]

That's a smart way to do it. Plus diesel is higher priced than gas now. And a gas job is cheaper to service. As long as you do regular oil changes, clean air filters and have good cooling gas jobs will last a long time.

Maybe not enough to justify the expense (haven't done the math), but I can say my diesel tractor uses far less gas than my gas tractor ever did, and the diesel is a much larger machine. I'm constantly amazed at how long I go, and how much I do, on a single tank of diesel. It's more than just the ratio of potential energy per gallon of diesel vs. gas, as I'm seeing a usage differential of maybe 5:1 or more, and suspect it has to do with the fact that I must throttle up on the gas machine to do what the diesel accomplishes just barely off idle RPM.

 

[711mhw]

And for the fuel costs, (diesel) unless you have a very new tractor, it'll run just fine on heating oil.

 

[Ashful]

And for the fuel costs, (diesel) unless you have a very new tractor, it'll run just fine on heating oil.

Do you need to worry about heating oil gelling at cold temperatures? The paraffin content of diesel is varied throughout the year to minimize this problem, but I don't think they do the same with heating oil.

 

[Bspring]

I think you got a lot of good advice here. It will be really hard to know exactly what you want until you get something and have a chance to see how it works for your situation. The best you can do is ask lots of questions like you are doing.

 

[jeffesonm]

It took me three tractors to find the right one. Be patient and get yourself a good deal on used one... if you don't like it, you should be able to sell it a year later for about the same.

 

[simple.serf]

Do you need to worry about heating oil gelling at cold temperatures? The paraffin content of diesel is varied throughout the year to minimize this problem, but I don't think they do the same with heating oil.

If it isn't gelling in my oil tank for the boiler, which is outdoors, it won't gel in the tractor. Currently, my only running diesel is an Onan DJB (or is it a JE?) on my MEP 002a that I use as a backup generator. I run heating oil in it and haven't had any issues, though I do add the same percentage of anti gel to it as I do to my fuel oil tank. As to gas vs diesel, yeah, don't buy a gas burner with a working fuel guage, especially if you plan to run a haybine all day.

 

[711mhw]

Do you need to worry about heating oil gelling at cold temperatures? The paraffin content of diesel is varied throughout the year to minimize this problem, but I don't think they do the same with heating oil.

You can add a gal. of treatment to your (storage) tank for good measure, usually a good idea in the winter.