Help me upgrade and upsize my wood stove!

[moresnow]

Wife from near the equator? Duh. Ideal Steel. Git er done

Seriously. Lots more fun having a good plenty of horsepower than not enough. If the stove room gets to hot just blow cool air from the other rooms at the stove room. If you would like other opinions from Woodstock IS users PM me.

 

[Rearscreen]

Go for it. Then you get to go to their picnic in September. We can hook up and you can show me the ins and outs of the IS. You mentioned in a PM that you have a furnace return near the stove area and as I mentioned could be utilized to get the heat moving 'round the house the blower hooked up to a high set temp switch and relay.
As far as Woodstock in general, I like them of course, but I've noticed a few times where I feel that I've gotten less than accurate advice or insufficient operational advice. But, who am I to argue with one of the great innovators of woodstoves. They are terrible at self promotion. My guess is that if they really promoted themselves they would not keep up with demand. First thing I'd do is put a slash through the three o's in the name. I'm joking. But that would increase sales! On their team is a "flow designer". Water, air, blood...that's all the guy does. Air flow. I've always wanted to produce a documentary on this guy and the company in general. Maybe next life.

 

[Sconnie Burner]

Thanks. Do you think the Ideal Steel is a bad decision being too big for the room?

I am kind of a fanboy of the IS being I own one of course! Correct me if I'm wrong but there is the old adage you can build a smaller fire in a bigger stove but you can't build a bigger fire in a small stove.

That being said I also think Woodstock has a 6 month no questions asked return policy, at least they used to. Probably on the hook for shipping to your house and return shipping if you send it back, but hey what other manufactures let you test run their stoves and return it for a few hundred bucks?

Definitely play with small fans on the floor to create a convection loop that is going to be key. I would say the IS has a softer heat than a traditional steel stove (comparing to a quadra fire 3100 step top). Heat output is very controllable on these stoves, I have a flue damper right ontop of the flue collar of my stove. Goes up about 2.5 ft and then through the wall and then up 22 ft if I remember correctly. Great draft and controllability in my set up. Im heating roughly 3100 sq ft from an unfinished basement and can sit near the stove at full operating temp without feeling like I'm a turkey in an oven!

I say plan its delivery for next fall (late oct/early november) and run it for basicly a full heating season with the return policy in mind if it still is an option! You'll know for sure then if its a good fit or not. I suffer a lot from buyers remorse and let me tell you this is one of very few items I've never had that feeling with!

 

[Rearscreen]

I would think one of the differences between the PH and the IS is the front vs side loading. I personally am glad (and lucky) that the house I moved into (and dragged my PH with me) has a marble hearth (the mountain I live on has the largest marble operational quarry in the US) but the hearth only came out so far. With the side loader and the "fake" front ash lip the front legs are almost at the edge. A front loader would have required additional marble.

 

[KennyK]

It appears to me that the warm air will move out of the stove room pretty well, and you can always experiment with a small fan on the floor in various locations to see what works best. When you kick the Woodstock down to a cat-only burn, the heat output will drop quite a bit, as opposed to running flame in the box and having the secondary cranking. And with the 1890 house you will probably be glad to have the top-end output when it's cold outside. If they told you that the stove was sized about right for the house, I would run with that.
Bear in mind that to meet code, the vent needs to be fused so that it will close in the event of a house fire, and slow the spread of the fire.

Thanks Woody Stover! From everything I've read about the Ideal Steel, I too thought that it's pretty controllable to have a lower heat output when needed/wanted. One thought I had was that I could keep it low when we're in the stove room, and kick it up when we're out of the room. Is it that easy to control and move from higher heat output to lower? Also, one thing I do like about my little F100 is watching the fire as for a little stove it has a decent sized window. I've read that the IS can put out a good amount of heat and long burn times while appearing to have little or no flame. Do you think I'll also be able to have a nice view of the fire when I want to in the stove room without heating ourselves out of the room? Maybe I'm asking for everything, and I know one can't have everything in life!

 

[KennyK]

I think you are safe with the Ideal Steel. You can dampen it down enough to get a very long consistent burn and not overheat that area. If you crank the stove though it will certainly run you out of there. It has as good a chance or better than any other stove in my opinion. It has radiant and convective properties to it. They call everything radiant but it has convective channels on the side legs.

It's great to hear from you as you have an Ideal Steel! I'd love to know how big your stove room is and your home, and what your temps are like. I don't full get the radiant vs. convective heat - I understand that a blower will push heat out, but I would think any big box that is putting out heat into the atmosphere, regardless of the material it's made out of will put heat in your home and raise the temps. Maybe I'm not getting it! In any case, as the IS is both steel with soap stone liner, I too thought it had some convective and radiant properties. Any more input on this is welcome!

 

[Highbeam]

Don’t worry about radiant vs. convective stoves in normal construction homes. All stoves do both. I went from a radiant hearthstone to a convective bk on the same hearth and both stoves did the job great. No significant difference. As you know, the IS is just as efficient as anything else out there so those btu of heat will be dumped into the stove room whether by convection or by radiation.

 

[KennyK]

I like the Woodstock ideal steel but it would have some draw backs if installed in the current fire place, in order to meet the clearances of the mantle, the stove would have to be the short leg kit, and installed totally outside the current fireplace foot print. A short leg kit would be needed because you need to have the proper horizontal pitch of your black pipe (double wall needed due to same clearance issues) so it can "drain" any liquid creosote back into the stove in the event that it forms.
The mantle has me nervous because you don't wanna lose it, its probably a hand crafted piece using old growth wood and that simply cant be replaced, the sides of the stove would need the 19" on either side of clearance, so the unit would have to be installed further out into the room to clear the lowest portion of the mantles vertical columns, the top piece of the mantle would be fine since there would be a rear heat shield and the stove would be further into the room.
The hearth would have to be extend out, 16" past the loading door and 6" on the sides, it would need a K factor of .41 so 2 layers of cement board then a tile of choice, or a layer of classic brick which is common for New England.
As far as heat output, you'll be fine, the stove is a radiant stove, that has the choice of running lower in cat mode or full bore with both the cat and secondary re-burn tubes at up to 110,000 btu's an hour, for an old leaky house you may want to have that kind of fire power.
Heat transfer to the second floor seems a little more tricky, you may want to invest in a thru wall vent fan and install near the ceiling with the exhaust pointed at the stair way so more heat can go up the stairs, those fans are fairly quiet and can have multiple adjustable settings.
As far as the other stoves in the line up, I'm not to thrilled with them since there outputs are pretty high and to maintain a clean burn you would have to burn them pretty hot, so either you would chase the heat curve by loading smaller loads with shorter burn times to keep a lower consistent temp or load it up and open a window.

That's a lot of good info kennyp2339! To start, I appreciate your take on the mantel being a beautiful, handcrafted piece of old growth wood that I don't want to loose! That's encouragement for me to not tear it out! It's a challenge, but if I can work with it, I agree with you. The person I spoke with from Woodstock chuckled when I kept talking about ways to work with the mantel, saying "you must really like that mantel," but when I sent her a photo she responded, "your mantel is indeed beautiful and I don't blame you for wanting to keep it."

The Woodstock people said I could meet clearances by running 18 inches of horizontal pipe to my T plus the rear heat shield and some mantel shields. If I go for it, I will double check all the measurements, but this is how I understand it: My T opening is 6.5 inches from the opening of my fireplace firebox (where the backside of mantel starts). The flue collar on the Ideal Steel is 4.5 inches. So, 18 inches of horizontal double wall pipe plus the 4.5 flue collar starting 6.5 inches into my firebox would put the back of the stove at 16 inches out from the firebox opening on the hearth, which is 4 inches past the end of the top of my mantel (which is 12 inches deep) and 8.5 inches in front of the biggest part of the vertical mantel columns. The Ideal Steel, not including ash lip is 23.5" from front to back, so that puts the front of the stove (not including ash lip) at 39.5 inches into the room. Add another 18 inches of hearth pad in front of that (only 16 is required, but 18 is probably not a bad idea!), and my hearth is 57.5 inches into the room (by about 48 inches wide), however 18.5 of that is my existing marble hearth (I will have to check the R value on my existing hearth - it's one inch thick marble and I'm not totally sure what's under it, but I think a bunch of inches of brick). This isn't totally ideal, but doesn't strike me as too bad, especially if I can make a nice hearth pad and tie it in with my existing marble hearth. I believe I can use the short legs at one inch less than the shortest setting, which would allow me to have the ash pan, and put the top of the flue at 28.5 inches tall - a little more with double wall pipe, which is 1.5 inches below the lintel (perhaps even an inch more as my floor slopes down almost an inch from the firebox opening). Wow, that's a lot of calculations! I hope I've got this right! Again, if I go for it, I'll take the measure twice, cut once approach (actually, I'll probably measure about 10 times before going for it!).

So, with that aside, you think that I'll be fine with the heat? I think it would be pretty easy to install some through the wall vent fans if I found it was needed. Feel free to tell me this is a crazy idea (or a good one!) - from one Kenny to another!

 

[KennyK]

Wife from near the equator? Duh. Ideal Steel. Git er done

Seriously. Lots more fun having a good plenty of horsepower than not enough. If the stove room gets to hot just blow cool air from the other rooms at the stove room. If you would like other opinions from Woodstock IS users PM me.

So many great and helpful responses on this thread... this one made me laugh the most! Yeah, when it's 69 in the house my wife complains about how freezing it is! I'll definitely be PM'ing you. Thanks!

 

[KennyK]

Go for it. Then you get to go to their picnic in September. We can hook up and you can show me the ins and outs of the IS. You mentioned in a PM that you have a furnace return near the stove area and as I mentioned could be utilized to get the heat moving 'round the house the blower hooked up to a high set temp switch and relay.
As far as Woodstock in general, I like them of course, but I've noticed a few times where I feel that I've gotten less than accurate advice or insufficient operational advice. But, who am I to argue with one of the great innovators of woodstoves. They are terrible at self promotion. My guess is that if they really promoted themselves they would not keep up with demand. First thing I'd do is put a slash through the three o's in the name. I'm joking. But that would increase sales! On their team is a "flow designer". Water, air, blood...that's all the guy does. Air flow. I've always wanted to produce a documentary on this guy and the company in general. Maybe next life.

Well, I very well might take you up on connecting at the Woodstock picnic! I'm thinking that if I am going to seriously consider moving forward with an IS, and they have their sale in March, I may take a drive up there to see the stoves in person before actually making the purchase. They are 2 hours and 20 minutes from my house, so not a bad day trip.

Without ever having had one of their stoves, I totally respect them for their incredible ingenuity, pride in their work, customer service, etc. That said, I hear where you are coming from about less than accurate advice, which has led me to be uncertain about what they told me. One example is I got mixed opinions from two different people I spoke with there regarding the IS versus Progress - one person told me the IS with the soapstone liner would heat just like the Progress. The second person I spoke with said that was completely wrong and they are totally different kinds of heaters! I guess that's why I'm here with all these questions! Everything's going into the mix!

 

[KennyK]

I am kind of a fanboy of the IS being I own one of course! Correct me if I'm wrong but there is the old adage you can build a smaller fire in a bigger stove but you can't build a bigger fire in a small stove.

That being said I also think Woodstock has a 6 month no questions asked return policy, at least they used to. Probably on the hook for shipping to your house and return shipping if you send it back, but hey what other manufactures let you test run their stoves and return it for a few hundred bucks?

Definitely play with small fans on the floor to create a convection loop that is going to be key. I would say the IS has a softer heat than a traditional steel stove (comparing to a quadra fire 3100 step top). Heat output is very controllable on these stoves, I have a flue damper right ontop of the flue collar of my stove. Goes up about 2.5 ft and then through the wall and then up 22 ft if I remember correctly. Great draft and controllability in my set up. Im heating roughly 3100 sq ft from an unfinished basement and can sit near the stove at full operating temp without feeling like I'm a turkey in an oven!

I say plan its delivery for next fall (late oct/early november) and run it for basicly a full heating season with the return policy in mind if it still is an option! You'll know for sure then if its a good fit or not. I suffer a lot from buyers remorse and let me tell you this is one of very few items I've never had that feeling with!

This is all great to hear! I too have been thinking about that old adage about building a smaller fire in a bigger stove. I guess I've just wondered if there's any drawbacks to this with the IS should I need to do this at times.

Hearing that the heat output is very controllable and that you can sit near the stove at full operating temp without feeling like a turkey in the oven is encouraging! When I spoke with Woodstock, they also suggested that I put on a flue damper. Do you use that much and is it helpful for you? About how big is your stove room and ceiling height and how hot does it get?

I have thought about the 6 month return policy - it's pretty impressive. The person I spoke with at Woodstock actually told me that if I bought it in March, they still wouldn't start that 6 month period until the start of next heating season!

 

[HomeinPA]

I'm going to assume you actually meant the house is a victorian built in the 1890's and not in the 1980's

While I understand the theory behind the possibility of overheating the main room with the Woodstock, based on your description of the house I would have no issue installing it if that is the stove you like and the clearances are acceptable. The floor plan is open enough, 9' ceilings, the stairway is right there to allow air to go upstairs and it appears that you have ceiling fans in every room on the 1st floor. Even in the aforementioned shoulder seasons, unless you're packing it full and cranking the heat out, you're going to dissipate the heat throughout that big old house. As I've said before on here, I'm a firm believer that you can burn smaller and lighter in a big stove but you can't make a little stove crank out heat like a bigger one. You may have to design a heat shield for the mantel but I would do that before removing it and changing the look of the house.

For air distribution I'd start with trying to have the fan in the main room blowing down and the fans in the rooms on each side drawing up to pull the warm air into the rooms. A ceiling fan at the top of the stairway would also help if it actually did get to warm. You could change the direction depending on whether you wanted to draw more heat upstairs or push warm air back down. 20" box fans work just as well if ceiling fans aren't installed everywhere.

 

[firefighterjake]

Not much to add other than I think the Ideal Steel is a much more modern looking stove and personally would not want it in a Victorian for the styling alone . . . whereas the Fireview (while perhaps too small unfortunately) would be a perfect fit design-wise. And to be honest, I'm really more of a traditional cast iron stove look sort of person.

However, a) this is not my home or my decision and what I think looks good may not be the same as others and b) while how a stove looks is good, how it heats the home is the number one consideration.

 

[Ashful]

Don’t worry about radiant vs. convective stoves in normal construction homes.

He's trying to heat the third floor of a Victorian house from the first floor, a first floor divided into several smaller rooms. That ain't "normal construction homes," Highbeam.

I'm going to assume you actually meant the house is a victorian built in the 1890's and not in the 1980's

Glad I'm not the only one that re-read his first sentence a few times.

 

[KennyK]

I'm going to assume you actually meant the house is a victorian built in the 1890's and not in the 1980's

Ooooops Just edited. Yes, the construction style of the 1890s (as is my home) was quite different than the 1980s (as was my kitchen when I moved in before I did a DIY remodel!)

Don’t worry about radiant vs. convective stoves in normal construction homes. All stoves do both. I went from a radiant hearthstone to a convective bk on the same hearth and both stoves did the job great. No significant difference. As you know, the IS is just as efficient as anything else out there so those btu of heat will be dumped into the stove room whether by convection or by radiation.

@Highbeam What you wrote about about the btu's of heat being dumped into the room/home whether by convection or by radiation is my thinking too. I mean if it's putting the heat out there, doesn't it have to be going into the home, and as heat rises, doesn't some go upstairs?

He's trying to heat the third floor of a Victorian house from the first floor, a first floor divided into several smaller rooms. That ain't "normal construction homes," Highbeam.

@Ashful, I definitely respect your expertise, and I understand how my house may have some challenges with moving the heat around, but I just still don't fully understand how if the heat is being put out by the stove it is so different if it's a so-called convective stove vs. radiant. Also as @JA600L wrote:

I think you are safe with the Ideal Steel. You can dampen it down enough to get a very long consistent burn and not overheat that area. If you crank the stove though it will certainly run you out of there. It has as good a chance or better than any other stove in my opinion. It has radiant and convective properties to it. They call everything radiant but it has convective channels on the side legs.

It seems the Ideal Steel has both convective and radiant properties. This said, the jury is still out for me, and I welcome continued thoughts on stoves. One of the options I also put out there is the Jotul F45, which I believe is more of a convective heater, and the larger Jotul F55, but it's really weird that in the F55 manual, on page 2 it says there's a short leg kit (with which I could fit the flue), but on page 9 it says there's no short leg option - strange!

Not much to add other than I think the Ideal Steel is a much more modern looking stove and personally would not want it in a Victorian for the styling alone . . . whereas the Fireview (while perhaps too small unfortunately) would be a perfect fit design-wise. And to be honest, I'm really more of a traditional cast iron stove look sort of person.

However, a) this is not my home or my decision and what I think looks good may not be the same as others and b) while how a stove looks is good, how it heats the home is the number one consideration.

@firefighterjake Back to the 1890s (not 1980s!) Victorian home thing... I totally hear where you are coming from. I love the look of a variety of stoves, and I hear you about the Fireview being more of a match for my house in terms of a similar look/style. That said, my house has many beautiful old features, from intricate brass door knobs including one with a face in it that looks like Zeus, to brass gas lanterns coming out of the wall (since disconnected), to my beautiful mantel. I do think that having some tasteful modern touches can be nice, and that's where the Ideal Steel could be a cool contrast while still a thing of beauty. Of course, as you noted, this is an opinion thing. Looks aside, do you have any thoughts on if the Ideal Steel might be a good fit in terms of how it heats my home, being able to move heat out of the stove room so it's not too hot there while meeting the needs of my square footage?

 

[Sconnie Burner]

This is all great to hear! I too have been thinking about that old adage about building a smaller fire in a bigger stove. I guess I've just wondered if there's any drawbacks to this with the IS should I need to do this at times.

Hearing that the heat output is very controllable and that you can sit near the stove at full operating temp without feeling like a turkey in the oven is encouraging! When I spoke with Woodstock, they also suggested that I put on a flue damper. Do you use that much and is it helpful for you? About how big is your stove room and ceiling height and how hot does it get?

I have thought about the 6 month return policy - it's pretty impressive. The person I spoke with at Woodstock actually told me that if I bought it in March, they still wouldn't start that 6 month period until the start of next heating season!

I use the damper all the time, its like adding a fine tuning gear to the stove. I can watch the secondaries flare or reduce in size with just a slight (1/8 inch) movement in either direction. It seems once the main air is reduced down to the 1/4 mark the secondary response stalls out for a few hashes below that. But with the flue damper I have full control of them through the whole setup of a burn if you will. Its kinda a like running a spark advancer/retarder lever on an old tracker plus having a throttle lever if you will.

I will leave the main air open and half close down the damper on a fresh reload a few minutes in to closing the bypass to "slow" the heat moving through the stove and get everything up to temp sooner, being careful to not let the flue cool and loose draft of course. Then as I'm closing the main draft down I might even open the flue damper back up at times for a bit. Ultimately it depends on how the fire looks and responds. Final settings for me are flue damper nearly closed (3/4-7/8 closed guestimating and remember they don't seal completely tight to the pipe-air gap around the plate, and usually have a series of holes in the damper plate itself so you still have flow) and main air set around the 1/4 has give or take a mark or 2 depending on outside temps.

 

[JA600L]

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This is a little demo on radiant vs convective heat.

 

[begreen]

Pretty video but don't let the music lull you into a warm and fuzzy place. I have been in several houses with masonry heaters. They heat both radiantly and convectively. Otherwise rooms and areas that are not in direct-line-of-sight would not be warmed.

 

[Sprinter]

Kenny, I don't have any experience with any of the stoves you are considering, but I will agree that you should not get too hung up on the convection vs radiant issue. Even if you get one that is heavy on the radiant side, you can always get a blower or just a floor or table fan to blow across it. That will turn a radiant - heavy stove into a convective - heavy stove pretty quick and you can turn the fans off whenever you want. But you can do the same thing with a convection - heavy stove too. We do that ourselves with our Super 27 sometimes if we want to get some warm air moving for a while in the morning. A ceiling fan can help too to mitigate the layering.

I can't advise on a model, but you already discovered that too small isn't good either. I'd get an outside air kit (OAK) no matter what, though. I lived in an old Victorian once and I know how drafty they can be. You don't need any more outside air coming in through the house just to feed the stove, although none of these stoves really require any more combustion air volume than a bathroom fan, for example.

Regarding stoves with a lot of thermal mass, remember that there is no free lunch. If the stove keeps radiating longer, it also takes longer to heat up.

It's true that it's hard to move air around in a house with lots of partitions, but there are ways.

Sorry I can't help with the models.

 

[Sprinter]

What you wrote about about the btu's of heat being dumped into the room/home whether by convection or by radiation is my thinking too. I mean if it's putting the heat out there, doesn't it have to be going into the home, and as heat rises, doesn't some go upstairs?

I don't know if this was answered, but yes, the same BTUs are getting into the house, but the difference is that a convective stove (say a perfectly convective one) is heating the air, the warmed air moves around and heats the heavier objects with more thermal mass like people, furniture, etc more indirectly. Pure radiant heat (just energy) transfers energy from objects with higher temps to cooler objects more directly, like how the sun can feel nice even on a cold day. Air has very little thermal mass, thus the difference.

Remember also heat energy itself does not rise. Warmed air will rise above cooler air, though. But via convection, not radiation. If you need upper areas warmed, or other rooms, it has to be by convection of warmed air. But there's nothing nicer IMO than a nice, radiant stove when you're in the same room. Fortunately, they all do both to varying degrees.

 

[KennyK]

Thanks. Do you think the Ideal Steel is a bad decision being too big for the room?

I've never run one personally, but on paper the IS looks too large. That said you have several variables including house design, house insulation and evidently a high heat tolerance that might work ok for you. The larger room division openings also work in your favor.

With the F100, if you have the stove room at 71F, what is the temp in the living room and in the kitchen? What is the hottest you've had the dining room up to?

Looking at the floorplan it might be possible to assist a good convection loop that helps moderate the dining room temperature. This would require cutting a fire dampered vent from the kitchen ceiling into the end of the 2nd floor hallway.

When you asked this about the temps in the living room and kitchen, I realized I've only been checking the temp in the stove room and the upstairs back bedroom, but not the kitchen or living room other than just by howI feel in them. By feel, the living room tends to be a little cooler than the stove room, and the kitchen is significantly cooler which is probably in part do to a smaller opening between there and the stove room, that that room faces a big wooded back yard with a strong breeze, and partially because my three windows in there are horrible (ironically they are the only three replacement windows in the whole house and the previous owners went super cheap with them - my 1890s windows with storms do a better job!). In any case, last night I decided to test, but it wasn't a great time to do it as it was 47 degrees outside. Last night I got a good fire going and got the stove room up to about 74 at one point, which is close to the hottest I've gotten it with the F100 (once I think I hit 76 on a warm afternoon!). When I checked temps using the same thermometer in each room, I got the following: fluctuation from 71 to 72 in stove room, 69 to 70 in living room, 67 upstairs and 66 in kitchen, but the kitchen might be a bit misleading as we burned something and had to open the window for a bit not too long before I took the temps. Any thoughts on this?

 

[begreen]

I thought the kitchen might be cooler. It's one of the reasons I suggested to get a stove with a blower, but it would be helpful to have accurate readings to verify. One thing to try is to measure the kitchen temp, then take a fan and place it on the floor in the kitchen area. Point it toward the stove and run it on low speed. Take the temp again at 15 and 30 minutes.

 

[Woody Stover]

if it's putting the heat out there, doesn't it have to be going into the home, and as heat rises, doesn't some go upstairs?

Yes..yes it does, and yes it will.

any thoughts on if the Ideal Steel might be a good fit in terms of how it heats my home, being able to move heat out of the stove room so it's not too hot there while meeting the needs of my square footage?

I think the Woodstock would heat your house adequately, in demanding or mild conditions. A little experimenting with a small fan or two will allow you to fine-tune heat distribution. If you end up needing a small electric heater to help out in your third-floor space, no big deal IMO.
Generally, I'm a nerd in regard to all things mechanical, and an appreciator of elegance. I've not seen Woodstock's steel stoves yet but based on what I've seen with the models I've run, it would be hard to beat their quality, engineering and ease of operation. And you definitely want the grated ash-handling system, no ifs, ands or buts. It's yet another example of the elegance of which I speak. You can thank me later. As always, others' mileages may vary. As for me, I'll probably snap up an Absolute in the not-to-distant future..

 

[KennyK]

I thought the kitchen might be cooler. It's one of the reasons I suggested to get a stove with a blower, but it would be helpful to have accurate readings to verify. One thing to try is to measure the kitchen temp, then take a fan and place it on the floor in the kitchen area. Point it toward the stove and run it on low speed. Take the temp again at 15 and 30 minutes.

To be certain I've got this straight, do you mean to put the fan right in the doorway entrance to the kitchen facing towards the stove or further back in the kitchen facing in the direction of the doorway/more or less towards the stove direction? Either way, I tried both and didn't see any change. I put a box fan on the floor in the entrance to the kitchen facing the stove on low and then medium, and then at the far opposite end of the kitchen facing the entrance and nothin'... On the upside, there was less of a temp. difference to begin with from the stove room to the kitchen today, but again, it's not necessarily the best day to try this, as it's again 47 degrees outside. With the stove room at about 72, the kitchen was at 69 regardless of with or without the fan.

Part of me feels that there is just such little heat being generated by the F100 for the size of my house and considering insulation and drafts, that it's going to be hard to tell much with this stove. While the kitchen may always have a little more trouble getting heat, I think if I were producing more heat, it would be easier to get it to move into the kitchen. And, if we're only talking three degree difference in temp, if I had the stove room up to the upper seventies or low eighties, it seems I could have the kitchen a pretty nice and warm temp. I'm sure there's more experimenting that I can do with fans too.

 

[KennyK]

I don't know if this was answered, but yes, the same BTUs are getting into the house, but the difference is that a convective stove (say a perfectly convective one) is heating the air, the warmed air moves around and heats the heavier objects with more thermal mass like people, furniture, etc more indirectly. Pure radiant heat (just energy) transfers energy from objects with higher temps to cooler objects more directly, like how the sun can feel nice even on a cold day. Air has very little thermal mass, thus the difference.

Remember also heat energy itself does not rise. Warmed air will rise above cooler air, though. But via convection, not radiation. If you need upper areas warmed, or other rooms, it has to be by convection of warmed air. But there's nothing nicer IMO than a nice, radiant stove when you're in the same room. Fortunately, they all do both to varying degrees.

I'm starting to get this a bit, but still having a bit of a hard time wrapping my head around it. If the heater is more radiant, it can still heat objects that aren't in a direct path of the stove, correct? Just like the sun can still heat us even when we are not in it's direct path, though it's generally hotter when we are. And, radiation can move heat too, even to spaces not so close to the object that's radiating heat (depending on how much heat it's radiating), correct? I think I need to go back to school In fact, I feel like I was just a kid at school watching this video on the subject, which helped a bit:

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Even if you get one that is heavy on the radiant side, you can always get a blower or just a floor or table fan to blow across it. That will turn a radiant - heavy stove into a convective - heavy stove pretty quick and you can turn the fans off whenever you want. But you can do the same thing with a convection - heavy stove too.

Back to the stove, specifically, as you wrote all stoves both radiate and convect to some degree, and if I put a blower or fan on a radiant stove, that can make it more convective, correct? Specifically to the Ideal Steel, from what I've read it's got both properties built in, with the radiant qualities from the soapstone liners and the convective from parts of the body. On one beta test thread about the stove, someone wrote, "This thing has convective channels in the perforated panels on the sides that the leg covers and legs attach to, as well as the leg covers themselves. They even put slots in the top of the stove as well as the tops of the leg covers for that reason, and you can feel the air current flowing out of these slots." Seems like this would have some benefits to my situation...