Help! Insert install problem. **UPDATE**

[Hogwildz]

The only known safe way to do it, is for it to be proper by the manual. You need a manual for your ZC box and make sure that is installed properly first, then you need to properly install the insert according to the manual. That is the only way it will be known to be safe. Otherwise you can guess and speculate all you want, but you wont know.

I agree With JTP. This is a big safety item. Not like doing a wall in drywall and being able to spackle over oopses.
Not like framing something and being a lil out of plumb or square.
I understand your trying to make this as easy as you can while trying to do it right. Sometimes, both can't be achieved at same time without making changes.
In the end the decision is yours. You have to decide how you want to do it, then can you sleep at night without a question that it won't turn dangerous and burn your home down, or worse yet hurt you or your family.
I'm my world, overkill and safer is always better. That way I am not always looking over my shoulder, or laying in bed wondering about this & that.
Good luck in what you decide.

 

[mxvet747]

Thank you for your advice.

 

[mxvet747]

It is not drywall. It looks like acoustical board, I wonder if this is micor? There is drywall on the facing but not the opening. It will smolder if I put it over an open flame, but it does not light on fire. Would pulte , one of the largest home builders in the country really use combustible board here? I doubt it. I should have left it alone.

 

[jtp10181]

Ok, making sure I understand correctly. In my picture, the blue is some sort of apparent non-combustible board, and the red is drywall? If this is the case, still does not seem right to me. For our fireplaces anything above the bottom of the fireplace (not the opening but the actual metal shell) within 20-30" (depending on model) cannot be combustible.

 

[meathead]

I, for one, would sleep better after knocking the thing out and rebuilding to a spec I felt safe with.

Only input I have is if that isn't your dream stove, you should find a way around it and get one you really want. The things hold their value almost too well, and an unfired stove will sell for within a couple hundred bucks of a new one on craigslist or the like. You could be staring at this thing for a quarter century +. I think you should do the work so you can sleep tight with no worries and get a stove that you are really excited to have - my $.00001

 

[mxvet747]

Yes JTP you have it right.

 

[mxvet747]

I, for one, would sleep better after knocking the thing out and rebuilding to a spec I felt safe with.

Only input I have is if that isn't your dream stove, you should find a way around it and get one you really want. The things hold their value almost too well, and an unfired stove will sell for within a couple hundred bucks of a new one on craigslist or the like. You could be staring at this thing for a quarter century +. I think you should do the work so you can sleep tight with no worries and get a stove that you are really excited to have - my $.00001

Hard to sell a stove with the tax credit issue.

 

[jtp10181]

As I said before, I would find a manual for your ZC box and study it. Its possible that may be allowed, but I doubt it. Check hearth clearances, and also sidewall clearances. The brick face and the micore plays no factor where the drywall lies when looking at the manual specs unless they specifically list reduced clearances when those materials are used in that fashion.

When was this home built? Any chance you could get pulte involved? I am sure its out of their "warranty" but whats done there might not even be legal / code.

If you need a professional eye on the manual I may have time to review it some night after work.

 

[meathead]

Have you checked in to how that works with a stove purchased from a non dealer? It is the stoves themselves that qualify for the tax credit if I understand it...people may be able to declare the purchase on their taxes even if they buy them from a previous owner. Man I have been watching used ones dissapear off craigslist for a couple weeks now thinking about a second stove for upstairs in my house, and I have been amazed at how close the "1 year used" stoves are getting to MSRP. Maybe people searching the web for stoves aren't aware of the credit because they haven't been into a shop.

 

[meathead]

When was this home built? Any chance you could get pulte involved? I am sure its out of their "warranty" but whats done there might not even be legal / code.

That's a good point - huge builder still in business - warranty or no, it seems like they should make it right if they cut corners where codes were concerned. Also may be that you send them off the pics with your concerns and they can tell you what products they were using and show you that it is to code and put the issue to rest that way.

 

[mxvet747]

This house was built in around 94 . I don't have a manual for the box, & the company is done. It is a temtex TBF36 3 . Temco is the more recent name. Maybe I will check with some of the people on my street to see if they have a book for it.

 

[mxvet747]

I decided to take a look under the facing on the bottome since I am gonna build up the hearth & here is what I found. 1/2" brick over 1/2" drywall over osb. I am not too happy about the wood in here... I am not worried about the sides, but now I am starting to question the heat on the top. I was gonna shield it but the brick is about 5" away from the insert. I would not worry if the zc box was close to flush with the facing, but it is like 3 1/2" bihind the facing...

 

[jtp10181]

Yeap... that was definatly not legal....

And I would be very worried about the top.

 

[Shari]

You know, Mx, I feel your pain when you said you never should have started this. It is frustrating, the season is almost here to be up and running and you are facing set back after set back.

Now that you have taken the lower portion off and have found what appears to be valid areas of concern on this original install now is the time to pat yourself on the back. You seem to have found a possible dangerous if not outright non-compliant original install. Count yourself lucky "you" found this problem instead of a "house fire" finding this weakness in original installation.

Don't feel bad. You've done good. Now just figure out how to 'get it right' and keep yourself, your family and your investment in your home safe so you can enjoy it all for years to come.

Burn safe first - always!

Shari

 

[mxvet747]

The wood went across the whole front also, but in the picture I had already cut it out. I think I am gonna demo the whole thing, I was just at menards & they have cultured stone on sale. I wish I had known before I got the stove. I would have put a bigger zc box in & got a bigger stove. Well I am gonna stop feeling sorry for myself & just make the best of this. Thanks for all the advice & kind words..

 

[weatherguy]

While your in the process of tearing things down, throw the stove you have on craigslist, I sold a one year old pellet stove for a good price because I wanted to switch to wood, sold it in 3 days. If you dont sell it then install it.

 

[reiserrob2003]

what if you grab a copy of the NFPA 211 and see what they call for

 

[Bubbavh]

While your in the process of tearing things down, throw the stove you have on craigslist, I sold a one year old pellet stove for a good price because I wanted to switch to wood, sold it in 3 days. If you dont sell it then install it.

+1 If you could get almost what you paid for it. Then maybe build a hearthpad and put a stove on it instead of an insert, and save a lot of problems rebuilding that fireplace. If you got the room to do it.

Just my $.02

 

[mxvet747]

We need the space so I need an insert. I looked into getting a new zc box so I could sell this & get a bigger insert but the triple wall chimny is not compatible with the newer units.

 

[Bubbavh]

bummer!

 

[Linux_Tyro]

I'm wondering where you are at with this project? Feeling your pain as I have a similar problem installing a Hearthstone homestead in front of a ZC fireplace. Unlike your installation, my firebox is framed with 2x4's and drywall. The brick is simply veneered in front of the dry wall. Bad deal.

For some reason I decided to cut out a head hole after removing the mantel, just to take a look. Good thing I guess.

 

[mxvet747]

I am still not done .. I will have to post some new pics soon, but I tore the whole thing down. I have the cement board up & the metal lath & the cultured stone is in boxes in the garage. We have snow here now & it has been COLD & my chimney liner is not in yet! lol... At this rate I should have it ready for mothers day....

 

[mxvet747]

Notice in the final picture how I was able to run some bx up through the hole that use to be used by the gas log starter. Now I can power the blower from it so I don't have a cord hanging from the front.

 

[mxvet747]

Since my roof is steep & covered in snow is it ok to push the liner up from the bottom & then I may be able to do the top termination off a 32' extention ladder? It is a staight shot & I think it will go right up. Is it ok to just leave a couple extra feet on the bottom & then cut it to size when I am ready to put the stove in?

 

[jtp10181]

Wow they put plywood right over the face of the unit. Good thing that old unit never was burned really hard with the doors shut, I imagine the wall would have started on fire.

I don't see any prob putting liner up from bottom. If you are doing insulation on the liner (which you should be with a prefab chim) then its going to be a really tight fit unless your chim is one of the 10 or 11" prefabs.