Help....Hearthstone Heritage, Jotul 500 Oslo or Fireplace Insert?

[Backroads]

I can almost guarantee that the $200-$225/cord wood is green and will not burn very nicely this winter. If you don't already have seasoned wood for this winter, it is going to be frustrating for you.

Good luck. What everyone else is saying is dead on. Out west we heat with natural gas, so I am not saving much by burning wood . . . I just love the whole process (scrounging, cutting, splitting, stacking, burning)

I know 3 guys right now selling seasoned for $225 and Green for $185-200 in the eastern CT/RI area. My advice is to get to know what you are buying, seasoned and/or green. As for Long Island though...I don't think it will be readily available. I know a guy who is shipping firewood to Block Island and I think he's getting somewhere in the range of $400/cord but that's including delivery/ferry. If you can't get the wood for nothing it's going to be harder to recoup on your investment but eventually it should. Whatever you decide upon, good luck and keep everyone posted.

For what it's worth, I also looked long and hard at stoves and picked a Jotul Oslo in Preston also. Great people to deal with so far as I'm concerned.

 

[HearthKB]

I can almost guarantee that the $200-$225/cord wood is green and will not burn very nicely this winter. If you don't already have seasoned wood for this winter, it is going to be frustrating for you.

Good luck. What everyone else is saying is dead on. Out west we heat with natural gas, so I am not saving much by burning wood . . . I just love the whole process (scrounging, cutting, splitting, stacking, burning)

I know 3 guys right now selling seasoned for $225 and Green for $185-200 in the eastern CT/RI area. My advice is to get to know what you are buying, seasoned and/or green. As for Long Island though...I don't think it will be readily available. I know a guy who is shipping firewood to Block Island and I think he's getting somewhere in the range of $400/cord but that's including delivery/ferry. If you can't get the wood for nothing it's going to be harder to recoup on your investment but eventually it should. Whatever you decide upon, good luck and keep everyone posted.

For what it's worth, I also looked long and hard at stoves and picked a Jotul Oslo in Preston also. Great people to deal with so far as I'm concerned.

I'm still waiting on a call back from the guy who quoted $190 per cord. On his voicemail message he said its all hardwood but didn't say whether or not its seasoned. I'll report back once I get an answer from him.

I called a few contractors about the installation of the stove. WOW.... the installation is close to the total cost of the stove! So far.... I was quoted est. $2,200 for a free standing install through my 13' Cathedral ceiling and $1,700 to install it in my existing fireplace. This includes materials and labor. I also noticed that everyone charges to come out and give an estimate (from $15 to $50). The estimates I received were over the phone.

Do the installation numbers sound about right to you guys?


-Kevin-

 

[Highbeam]

I wouldn't bother with the Phoenix if the reason is for more/longer heat than the heritage. The Phoenix is also a very attractive stove but it has less soapstone and this goofy ceramic blanket thing above the baffle, no side door either.

My wife stays home during the day as well to feed the fire and loves the side door of the heritage. We don't open the front door at all for weeks since the side door is so effective and the air wash keeps the galss very clean. Also, the front door "sill" collects a lot of ash and makes mess when you open the front door. The big front door is also much more likely to spill smoke. You'll just love the side door. Don't worry about the ash pan since you won't use it except for baking potatoes.

I haven't tried to heat a home from the basement but I imagine that you will heat the upstairs to some extent even without trying. It will just happen. If the upstairs heat is just a bonus, the home is well insulated and open, and the downstairs is only 1600 SF, then the Heritage is sounding to be adequate. You'll need to work it pretty hard when the weather gets very cold but the next step up to the Mansfield might be a little too much and frankly, I find the Mansfield to be inferior to the Heritage in many ways except for size of course.

You will love soapstone if you like to lay by the fire or sit very close. If you like warm feather beds and pots of stew. The windows are very large and the fire is nice and lively. The stove temps only run up to 500-550 vs. 800+ for a steel stove. This is a big deal, those last few hundred degrees are when a stove becomes harsh. I'll compare it to water temperature when a 100 degree hot tub is nice for hours but a 106 degree hot tub is only nice for 5 minutes.

Here is someone else's dog and Heritage.

 

[Backroads]

I also noticed that everyone charges to come out and give an estimate (from $15 to $50). The estimates I received were over the phone.

Do the installation numbers sound about right to you guys?


-Kevin-

Last I checked it wasn't cheap to be driving anymore. They're just trying to cover their fuel and time, can't blame them for that.

 

[HearthKB]

I also noticed that everyone charges to come out and give an estimate (from $15 to $50). The estimates I received were over the phone.

Do the installation numbers sound about right to you guys?


-Kevin-

Last I checked it wasn't cheap to be driving anymore. They're just trying to cover their fuel and time, can't blame them for that.

I guess... but I recently had seven tree service guys come give me an estimate to cut down some trees and none of them charged me.

 

[SteveT]

I also noticed that everyone charges to come out and give an estimate (from $15 to $50). The estimates I received were over the phone.

When I called the guy recommended by my dealer I asked him if he could stop in when he was "in the area" so I could get a real quote instead of a ballpark. He did, and at no charge. He also got my business. Maybe your guys will firm up their quote at no charge if you give them the option to stop by when they are nearby instead of making a special trip. That said, $15 ain't much.

However you do it make sure you do get a real quote before you commit. There was a thread here a few weeks back where the Poster had what they thought was a quote, only to find out that when they came out a couple of days before the install there was a fairly significant adjustment. It turned out that the estimate was just that -- an estimate. The actual cost was a few hundred more.

 

[HearthKB]

I also noticed that everyone charges to come out and give an estimate (from $15 to $50). The estimates I received were over the phone.

When I called the guy recommended by my dealer I asked him if he could stop in when he was "in the area" so I could get a real quote instead of a ballpark. He did, and at no charge. He also got my business. Maybe your guys will firm up their quote at no charge if you give them the option to stop by when they are nearby instead of making a special trip. That said, $15 ain't much.

However you do it make sure you do get a real quote before you commit. There was a thread here a few weeks back where the Poster had what they thought was a quote, only to find out that when they came out a couple of days before the install there was a fairly significant adjustment. It turned out that the estimate was just that -- an estimate. The actual cost was a few hundred more.

As a matter of fact, I just got off the phone with an installer and he said that he'll be in my neighborhood on Saturday. He's stopping by to give me a FREE estimate. ;-)

 

[Catskill]

I guess... but I recently had seven tree service guys come give me an estimate to cut down some trees and none of them charged me.

I made friends with a tree guy and he feeds me more wood than I know what to do with. They're good people to know.

 

[HearthKB]

Just because you have a so called radiant stove doesn't mean you won't have any convection and will only heat what's directly in line sight. The advantage of freestanding stoves over inserts is you get both radiant and convection. It's a natural process where the cold air moves towards the hot stove and the heat rises up and out and creates a circulation loop or convection. The only radiant heat you will get from an insert is from the front glass and IMHO inserts are worthless without a blower. My stove is a soapstone, installed in the basement and heats the whole house (1800sq ft) without the use of a blower or fans. If you go with a freestander try it without the blower first and see how it works before you spend the extra money. A good ol fashioned box fan can move alot of air also.

Todd,

You mentioned that you have a Fireview which heats 1800sq ft from your basement. Since the stove is only rated at 1600sq ft max, I was just wondering how you were able to do this? Vents in the floors?

Also....I really want to purchase the Heritage but its out of stock at all of my local dealers. They are on backorder from Hearthstone until the last week in Sept or early Oct.! With my luck it will never come in. So... since the Fireview is rated at 1600 sq ft and the Heritage is rated at 1900, do you think the Fireview might be able to heat my 1950 sq ft home efficiently without any floor vents to the upstairs?

Any help will be greatly appreciated!!

-Kevin-

PS. I called Woodstock Stoves and spoke to Greg. Wow... what a nice guy! Answered all of my questions without the typical sales pitch. That's very rare!

 

[Todd]

Just because you have a so called radiant stove doesn't mean you won't have any convection and will only heat what's directly in line sight. The advantage of freestanding stoves over inserts is you get both radiant and convection. It's a natural process where the cold air moves towards the hot stove and the heat rises up and out and creates a circulation loop or convection. The only radiant heat you will get from an insert is from the front glass and IMHO inserts are worthless without a blower. My stove is a soapstone, installed in the basement and heats the whole house (1800sq ft) without the use of a blower or fans. If you go with a freestander try it without the blower first and see how it works before you spend the extra money. A good ol fashioned box fan can move alot of air also.

Todd,

You mentioned that you have a Fireview which heats 1800sq ft from your basement. Since the stove is only rated at 1600sq ft max, I was just wondering how you were able to do this? Vents in the floors?

Also....I really want to purchase the Heritage but its out of stock at all of my local dealers. They are on backorder from Hearthstone until the last week in Sept or early Oct.! With my luck it will never come in. So... since the Fireview is rated at 1600 sq ft and the Heritage is rated at 1900, do you think the Fireview might be able to heat my 1950 sq ft home efficiently without any floor vents to the upstairs?

Any help will be greatly appreciated!!

-Kevin-

PS. I called Woodstock Stoves and spoke to Greg. Wow... what a nice guy! Answered all of my questions without the typical sales pitch. That's very rare!

1600 sq ft is a very conservative number for the Fireview. If the Heritage can do it, the Fireview can do it better! :coolgrin: Actually either stove should work fine for you, you need to pick the one you like the looks of best. Kevin, I PM'd you.

 

[Highbeam]

The heritage and fireview ought to be similar performers since their btu outputs are the same but there are a few differences. One is a cat stove which some folks love and some hate. I wouldn't be afraid of a cat stove. The big one for me is that the woodstock stove has really large clearance requirements and rear vents only. That's fine for a fireplace hearth mount but you may find that it uses up a huge part of your room.

Plus the window is pretty little compared to the heritage. Both have side doors which is great.

 

[BioPellet]

Hi Everyone!!

Let me start out by saying. since I'm new to wood stoves ANY help will be greatly appreciated!

I live on Long Island, NY and just checked the oil prices. $4.75 per Gallon!! I can't go through another season at these prices so I've decided to purchase a wood burning stove to heat the downstairs of my home. Downstairs is about 1,600 sq ft. Total sq. ft of the home is about 2,200. The downstairs has a pretty open floor plan from the den to dining room to kitchen to living room. The kids play room and my office is towards the back of the house. Both have doors that I will keep open, hoping the heat will reach these rooms. I have a fireplace in my living room which I never use because of its inefficiency.

I went to two wood stove places and got different opinions (of course).
1) One place said to go with the Hearthstone Heritage because of its ability to heat for up to 12 hours. Plus it has a nice even heat distribution. The 12 hour heat time has me interested because I leave the house for work at 5:00am and don't return till about 6:00pm. There is usually someone home who can feed the stove but just in case they aren't, I would like it to burn as long as possible. The Heritage will cost about $5,000 which includes installation, piping materials, hearthpad etc.

2) The second place I went to suggested the Jotul Oslo or Avalon Arbor. Both seem to be nice stoves with high outputs and long heat times. But... they don't retain the heat like a soapstone stove will. The Jotul will cost $4,700 installed and Avalon will be about $5,000.

Both places said I can heat my home this winter with four cords which will cost around $800. Compare that to three $1,200 oil tank fill ups and you'll see my urgency to purchase a wood burning stove!

After coming home and reading the brochures, I noticed that they have fireplace inserts too. I was wondering if this application would be better for me instead of purchasing a free standing stove?

Which of the stoves mentioned above are good for my application?


I'm sorry for the long post but I'm trying to supply you with as much info as possible to make it easier for you to answer my questions. Thanks again!!


-Kevin-

holds the heat hummmm..... what does that mean??? it certainly does not mean CREATES HEAT? so its keeping heat from reaching you.... hummm, not a good thing. Hey ... here's an Idea! Put a fan accross your stove to creat convective heat transfer so that you get the heat yourself rather than the stove!

 

[BioPellet]

there are european style central furnaces and boilers showing up in the US market that will heat your house for a couple of days with one charge of wood. You transfer the energy to a water tank that holed 2000 liters and is also heated by the sun...

 

[HearthKB]

holds the heat hummmm..... what does that mean??? it certainly does not mean CREATES HEAT? so its keeping heat from reaching you.... hummm, not a good thing. Hey ... here's an Idea! Put a fan accross your stove to creat convective heat transfer so that you get the heat yourself rather than the stove!

Hmmmm... What kind of comment is this? Not the usual helpful comments I've been receiving so far.

Did I say it "creates heat"? I just said the soapstone holds the heat longer than cast iron or steel after the fire has dies down. Also, last time I checked, a stove was supposed to heat "the room" or "house". I didn't think I had to stand in front of it to get warm.

 

[BioPellet]

My point is soap stone stoves are a gimic. The specific heat of soapstone is only 2x more than cast iron - since there is not much soap stone in a soap stone stove it can only store around 60000 btu at 300 C - so a cast iron stove of similar size will store half that - so no big deal

Betetr to blow the heat into the room rather than leave it in the stove - if you really want to store heat look to water or a masonry heater.....

 

[Vic99]

I think using the word gimic is not quite right. Clearly what the manufacturer's brochures put out is optimal and not realistic for the home owner. As you say, soapstone has double the specific heat of iron. However, that is still significiant. Works well for a 24/7 burner that wants a more even temperature, particularly for the larger stoves.

Soapstone will release heat over a longer period of time. Less heat at any given time interval than iron, but a more even transfer of heat . . . obviously, some perfer the way iron heats, some stone.

No doubt water has a 9X greater specific heat than iron and nearly 5X more than soapstone. Clearly heating water to transfer heat with, say, forced hot water/radiator systems is common for fossil fuel sets ups, at least in older homes here in New England. However, I always liked that better than a central heating system that simply warms air. Again, a more consistent heat with water vs. air.

 

[HearthKB]

My point is soap stone stoves are a gimic. The specific heat of soapstone is only 2x more than cast iron - since there is not much soap stone in a soap stone stove it can only store around 60000 btu at 300 C - so a cast iron stove of similar size will store half that - so no big deal

Betetr to blow the heat into the room rather than leave it in the stove - if you really want to store heat look to water or a masonry heater.....

I'm not looking to store heat. I just want the longest heat times possible. I also wanted a softer heat from the stove and from what I read, soapstone can provide that. My brother in law has a steel stove and I can't stand to be in the same room when he fires it up. Its a blazing heat!

So you're saying that spending the extra money on a Soapstone stove is worthless? After all of positive reviews from people with soapstone stoves, my mind was basically made up that they are better for my needs (24/7 burning). As a matter of fact, I was going to order the Woodstock Fireview tomorrow, instead of the Heritage.

 

[begreen]

Two things going here. Long burns and even heat. A soapstone stove doesn't necessarily give longer burn times unless it has a bigger firebox. However a cat soapstone is a nice combo in that it can burn longer at lower temps and has the advantage of providing the more even, less reactive heating that soapstone stoves are known for. If you're going for 24/7 heating the Fireview should be a good choice.

Surprised no one is mentioned aesthetics. A nice soapstone stove is a pleasure to look at year round regardless of how it heats.

 

[Todd]

My point is soap stone stoves are a gimic. The specific heat of soapstone is only 2x more than cast iron - since there is not much soap stone in a soap stone stove it can only store around 60000 btu at 300 C - so a cast iron stove of similar size will store half that - so no big deal

Betetr to blow the heat into the room rather than leave it in the stove - if you really want to store heat look to water or a masonry heater.....

I don't see how you think holding 2x the heat is not significant? That's like 60,000 BTU's compared to 30,000. That extra heat storage is what evens out the heat for a longer time, it doesn't stay in the stove. There is a different feel between the two and there sure isn't any gimic. They have been building soapstone stoves for over 100 years. Have you ever burned a soapstone? Try it you may like it.

 

[Highbeam]

The ones that talk poorly of soapstone almost always have never owned one or tried it. Consider the stone a buffer. I actually like the fact that the stove doesn't run from 300-800 degrees immediately after loading it. I like the slow response and predictability that the buffer effect provides.

Knowing what I know now, considering recent price changes, and if I had plenty of room for the large clearance requirements, the cat equipped woodstock would probably be on my hearth instead of the heritage. A long burn is sometimes more important than a hot burn. Any yahoo can make a stove get hot.

 

[begreen]

Agreed, dense mass is good. I like the way the Alderlea gently warms up and retains heat with a slow release afterward. It is different.

Hmm, I wonder if I could put some 1" soapstone slabs on that big top underneath the trivets?

 

[HearthKB]

Well guys and gals..... I just ordered my Woodstock Fireview in the Honey Glow Brown custom color. It should be ready in about two weeks. Now I just have to figure out how I'm going to get it off the back of my brother in laws pickup truck after we pick it up at the port! The stove weighs almost 500lbs! The salesman suggested that I rent an appliance dolly/hand truck from Home Depot or local tool rental shop. I plan on having about four guys with me so I hope we can get it off the truck and into my house without any issues. I can have the stove delivered directly to my house but it will cost me an extra $195. I'd rather put that money towards an extra cord of wood.

I'm supposed to receive my first two cords of wood on Wednesday. I setup wood pallets and 4x4's in my backyard that I got from a local fence dealer. I plan to stack the wood in a criscross pattern to aid the seasoning process. The wood is supposedly seasoned for about 9 months already so I figured by the time its burning season, it should be ready. I'm ready to tackle the back breaking work of moving those two cords. After thats all stacked, I'm ordering two more. Four should be pretty good for this winter.

I plan on taking a trip to Lowes tomorrow to buy the materials for my hearth pad.

I'll keep you guys posted on my progress. ;-)

 

[begreen]

Yea! Congratulations. That is fast turn around. Get your camera ready!

We slid the T6 down some 2 x 10s off the truck, then rachet strapped it to a commercial appliance dolly. It went pretty smoothly.

When you get the wood, before they drop it off, pick out a few splits and and feel their weight. Select one or two of the thicker, heavier pieces and split them in half. Then press the freshly exposed wood against your face. If it's damp, it will feel cool. Let the supplier know if it fails this simple test for seasoning and before before accepting the load. It'll be your call at that point, but if a lot of the wood is heavy and damp, it may not be ready for burning this year.

 

[Todd]

Great news! You won't be disappointed with the stove as long as your wood is dry. Sounds like you have all your ducks in a row and should be nice and warm come winter.

 

[HearthKB]

In regards to building my hearth pad; I found these instructions on the Woodstock website. (broken link removed to http://www.woodstove.com/pages/hearthplan.html)

"Your hearth pad will be an open-faced “sandwich” composed of plywood or subfloor, ½” of approved floor protection (cement board), and then ¼” or more of the decorative noncombustible finishing material of your choice."
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Plus...They don't mention anything about 'r' values except for the paragraph below which is does not specify any mandatory values for the stove.

"Technical Note: Conductivity
Cement backer board is an ideal material for a hearth pad because of its low “k”, or conductivity value. Conductivity is the ability to conduct heat. The lower the “K” factor, the less heat is conducted through the material. For example, Durock has a k-value of 1.92 per inch, as compared to the k-value of common brick, which is 5.00 per inch, or marble, which has a k-value of 15.00 to 20.00 per inch. "
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So does this mean I can just use 3/4" plywood, 1/2" Durock and then 1/4" tile and I should be fine?

As always, any help will be greatly appreciated. Thanks!