HELP - Englander 25-PDV - Not sure what to try next

[mculik5]

I have an Englander 25-PDV pellet stove in my workshop (early 2000s model, no igniter or vacuum sensor). Came with the house, and the previous owner said it was broken. I took it apart and found the combustion blower was clogged with ash/soot. Also, the stovepipe had been removed.

So...I thoroughly cleaned the blower and stove, replaced the combustion blower gasket, and installed new ICC EXCELPellet stovepipe.

I then test fired the stove using crappy Home Depot pellets. It worked great! However, it was only October at this point, and I didn't need heat.

Fast forward to a few weeks ago, when I actually needed heat. I threw a handful of pellets into the empty burn pot, lit them with a blowtorch, and turned the unit on. FYI, I'm using Okanagan Doug Fir pellets, which I understand to be the best of the best. Given the nature of this post, you can guess that I had an issue at this point, which I haven't been able to fix.

Basically, the flame is very lazy, and the pellets don't burn completely. As a result of the lazy flame, the unit takes forever to heat up. I've posted a picture of what the burn pot looks like after running for a few hours. Flooded with pellets, with a stack of un-burned pellets under the front of the burn pot...

As far as I can tell, this is because of insufficient combustion air.

Here's what I've done to troubleshoot:

- Re-cleaned the stove and re-checked the combustion blower for blockage
- Blew compressed air behind the combustion chamber to clear it out
- Inspected the air intake pipe for blockage
- Disconnected the OAK to reduce static pressure on the combustion blower (will hold a sheet of paper to the intake, but not very strongly)
- Tested for vacuum leaks using a lighter (door, window, hopper, combustion blower, etc., etc.)
- Checked the voltage from the control board to the combustion blower (was 122V)

None of these steps found any obvious problems. The unit will run continuously with no error codes, and the room blower does eventually start. For what it's worth, I went through 40 pounds of pellets yesterday in ~6 hours. Settings were Heat Range 5 and Blower Speed 9. This seems like a TON of pellets to me. I have Harman XXV in my living room that will last about 24 hours on 40 pounds at medium heat settings.

The 3-button settings are:

Low Fuel Feed - 1
Low Burn Air - 1
Air On Temp - 4

However, given that I'm running the unit at Heat Range 5, I'm not sure that these settings matter.

At this point, the only remaining things I can think of that could be issues are:

1. Bad combustion blower, not spinning as fast as it should be (how to test?)
2. Blocked stovepipe (only about 5' of pipe, so easy enough to check, but would be surprised if blocked, as it's brand new pipe, with a proper horizontal cap, screen, etc.)
3. A huge vacuum leak someplace that I haven't found (if I put my hand over the air intake, the combustion blower still blows a good amount of air, but maybe being pulled through the glass air curtain holes?)
4. Control board issue resulting in overfeeding pellets and/or underfeeding air (how to test?)

Any other ideas for things to check? Or ideas of what is wrong?

Thanks in advance for the help.

 

[Ssyko]

Check the seals around the door. Did you pull the impingement plate in top the firebox? Pull the firepot plate and clean the pot itself. Also under the fire plate ther are 2- 3/4” holes one on each side, pluging them have improved the fire on many englanders. Check your vac hoses in the back for cracks they get brittle

 

[Mt Bob]

Well,for starters,your burn box is trash,and your impingement plate is ruined/warped,or wrong part.Start with replacing them.

 

[Pellet rick]

I would check a couple of things. First, verify that the vent pipe is clear which it probably is . Next do the dollar bill Test on the front door. Also check the hopper lid that it’s sealing with no play up and down. Another thing I found on my PDV was the front glass leaking. I fixed that with high temp sealant. Another thing that these stoves like are the burn pot modifications which really help with the lava pile you have going on. Oh and by the way the bottom three numbers only effect settings 1+2 and the factory setting is 641 . Everyone fine tunes the numbers when burn different pellets on 1+2 but never ever should the last number be anything other then 1 for Saftey.

 

[mculik5]

@Ssyko - Thanks. Door seals seem to be good based on the check I did with the lighter. The impingement plate was pulled out when I cleaned it. The fire pot was also cleaned, including under the fire plate. I didn't notice the holes last time, but will check - thanks for the suggestion. Where are the vac hoses? Looking at the back of my unit, it doesn't appear to have any. I believe it predates the vac sensor. Or should I be looking someplace else?

@bob bare - Thanks. I'm guessing you're saying the fire pot is trash because the corners are melted? I noticed that, too, and need to replace it. In the meantime, though, what impact do those have on the burn? Also, the impingement plate is flat and seems fine (though maybe not evident in the pic). What makes you say it's warped?

@Pellet rick - Thanks. I really don't think I have sealing issues, as I've checked the unit twice with a lighter, but I'll check again to be certain.

Any other thoughts?

Anyone have experience with a bad combustion blower? Do they just stop working suddenly, or do they die a slow death, spinning slower and slower over time?

Also, any comments on the possibility of the control board over-fueling/under-airing (but otherwise still working)?

Thanks.

 

[Ssyko]

Air is puking out the corners instead of up throughout the holes in the plate. Replace the burn box and scraper, impingement plate first then see how it fires up

 

[Mt Bob]

To me,in your picture,plate looks warped and flames going behind it.

 

[Pellet rick]

@Ssyko - Thanks. Door seals seem to be good based on the check I did with the lighter. The impingement plate was pulled out when I cleaned it. The fire pot was also cleaned, including under the fire plate. I didn't notice the holes last time, but will check - thanks for the suggestion. Where are the vac hoses? Looking at the back of my unit, it doesn't appear to have any. I believe it predates the vac sensor. Or should I be looking someplace else?

@bob bare - Thanks. I'm guessing you're saying the fire pot is trash because the corners are melted? I noticed that, too, and need to replace it. In the meantime, though, what impact do those have on the burn? Also, the impingement plate is flat and seems fine (though maybe not evident in the pic). What makes you say it's warped?

@Pellet rick - Thanks. I really don't think I have sealing issues, as I've checked the unit twice with a lighter, but I'll check again to be certain.

Any other thoughts?

Anyone have experience with a bad combustion blower? Do they just stop working suddenly, or do they die a slow death, spinning slower and slower over time?

Also, any comments on the possibility of the control board over-fueling/under-airing (but otherwise still working)?

Thanks.

Bob is correct your burn pot is toast the hole is where your loosing all your air.

 

[mculik5]

@Ssyko - What is the scraper? Is that what I'd call the fire plate or burn plate?

 

[Ssyko]

Yes . Your combustion blower may be fine they can fail at anytime or all of a sudden most of the time you will hear squealing before they die or seize Pre 2004 I don’t think they had the vac switch. But the burn pot and impingement plate are vital in the operation of the stove. When you get them repaired or replaced you’ll have a good heater

 

[Ssyko]

I was thinking if you plug the 2 holes under your burn plate your burn pot may work till you can find a replacement. This is what you need 3/4” hillman plugs and some high temp rtv

 

[mculik5]

@Ssyko - Thanks again. Good call on using electrical knockout plugs - didn't think of that. Two questions, since you seem to know a fair bit:

1. What is the purpose of those two holes and pulling air up the sides of the burn pot? If the plugs work and give me a good flame, what am I missing out on if I don't replace the burn pot? I did a quick search, and all the burn pots I found were $200... Not sure if it's worth that for a stove in my workshop that only gets used on weekends, if I can help it.

2. What is the purpose of the impingement plate? Also, should it sit flush against the back wall of the combustion chamber, or lean forward. This is an early 2000s 25-PDV. I've seen conflicting info online.

 

[doghouse]

Question for the OP: does your burn pot have a set of holes running horizontally from the back to the front of the burn pot? If it does, then your burn pot has an air gap between the inner and outer end walls of the pot that allows air to be pulled through the holes and over the burning pellets. By looking at the picture, the front corners of each side of the burn pot is gone, meaning that air that would normally be pulled over the burning pellets is being pulled straight out the vent pipe.

The impingement plate is just that; it impinges or restricts the flow of air. The impingement plate should rest on top of the burn pot and flat against the back of the fire box. The top segment of the impingement plate restricts the flow of air through the stove, allowing air to be pulled through the burn pot and wear plate. If not set correctly, again, air moves around the burn pot and out the vent pipe.

Hope this helps.

 

[Ssyko]

Just like Doghouse said. For your shop it would probably be ok. If you plug the 2 holes under the fire plate the corners and holes on the inside will be null and void. But the impingement plate need to be flush with the back wall to route the heat over the heat exchanger, i have the little brother 25pdvc, same parts same stove just smaller. With the 2 fixed you can probably chane your bottom 3 button settings to 441 and adjust from there.

 

[mculik5]

@Ssyko @doghouse

Thanks for the help. I plugged up the two bottom holes with steel wool and adjusted the impingement plate, and the stove works much better now. The flame is not nearly as vigorous as my Harman, but the burn pot isn't overflowing anymore, the stove is putting out more heat, and the pellets are burning completely.

Thanks!

 

[Ssyko]

Weld up the corners of that pot and grab the metal plugs it will work even better. I may have a parts stove shortly im waiting on an email. If i get it ill give ya a good deal on the pot. The devil that carries coach bags dont know about it yet lol

 

[mculik5]

@Ssyko - I hear ya! Haha!

Thanks for the burn pot offer. Let me know.

Do you, by any chance, have a part number or some kind of identifier for the plugs? I originally thought that electrical knockout covers would do the trick, but the smallest (1/2" nominal) are actually 7/8" diameter, and the holes are precisely 3/4". I did a bunch of googling and checked McMaster - no luck.

Any info is appreciated.

 

[Mt Bob]

@Ssyko - I hear ya! Haha!

Thanks for the burn pot offer. Let me know.

Do you, by any chance, have a part number or some kind of identifier for the plugs? I originally thought that electrical knockout covers would do the trick, but the smallest (1/2" nominal) are actually 7/8" diameter, and the holes are precisely 3/4". I did a bunch of googling and checked McMaster - no luck.

Any info is appreciated.

I think this is what ssyco uses/means.https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00MN6GEC2/?tag=hearthamazon-20 usually any ace hardware has assortments of them in the hardware section.

 

[Ssyko]

Yep same thing, i got mine in the electrical aisle in lowes.

 

[Mt Bob]

Yep same thing, i got mine in the electrical aisle in lowes.

Thanks,Ssyko.

 

[Mt Bob]

The corners of your burn pot that are "blown out" disfigured,as was posted before,wake up.

 

[Hot Foot]

After blocking the two bottom holes with round magnets, I also closed off some of the wear plate holes to improve burn efficiency on my 25- pdv. If you look at the burn center on the wear plate, you'll see that you will get a circle of burning pellets in front of the auger tube, with ash all around it. I blocked off all of the wear plate holes around this circle with stove cement, to force more air up through the wear plate. You can use high temp foil tape underneath, to block the holes temporarily first. If you like the results, you can use the stove cement. Also, you will want to make sure that your stove is running in mode C. There's plenty of info on the stove modes if you search for it.