Help!😩Smoke Billows in Room! NEW Majestic Biltmore 42”

[No More Smoke-Shows:(]

Geez, I think I need a "Fireplace for Dummies" book!🤦🏻‍♀️ I appreciate as many of your comments as possible because I'm definitely out of my element here.

Question for StoveLiker

StoveLiker, when you said, "It might have saved your home in the fire, and that's what they're meant to do," I didn't quite catch what you meant. Are you referring to the cap's function or something else?

Dent in Cap

The cap has a dent (see photo), which has been there since installation. Could this dent interfere with its ability to adequately vent smoke by disrupting the airflow or draft?

Manufacturer-Approved Cap?

This is a Majestic Biltmore 42 fireplace. Do I need to stick with a cap recommended by the manufacturer, or if I can consider other types of caps? If so, any suggestions for alternatives?

Makeup Air Compensation by Open Windows?

We know that a makeup air system would be needed to prevent backdraft when the windows are closed. However, here's where I'm confused:

Even with two 7-foot casement windows (open about 4 inches each), a little smoke still escapes at the top of the fireplace. Shouldn't having the windows open compensate for the lack of a makeup air system? And if so, does this indicate that we might have an issue with the chimney draft?

Should We Extend the Chimney Height?

The manufacturer's manual specifies a minimum chimney height of 18.5 feet from the base of the fireplace unit to the top of the cap (ours measures 20 feet). And, in case it's relevant, the actual chimney section is 17.5 feet from the damper,(NOT including the 9-inch cap).

The installation manual states that the 'chimney height may need adjustment if smoking or overdraft occurs.'

Would extending the chimney height in 2-foot increments be worth a shot to improve the draft?

Thanks again for all of your comments!

 

[begreen]

The dent in the cap is inconsequential. Raising the chimney height 2 ft. should improve draft.

 

[kborndale]

Stick a piece of rigid dryer duct on top of your chimney and light a fire. If it helps then get some class a to do it correctly. If it doesn't help your only out 20 bucks. I would get a new cap while at it.

 

[gthomas785]

I think the cap is not as restrictive as it looks. Here's another pic of the same cap design, the whole bottom is open

 

[No More Smoke-Shows:(]

Hmm, gthomas785, interesting! The manufacturer image does look open. However, take a look at the picture I attached—it seems like the bottom’s closed off on mine.... 🤔

 

[stoveliker]

Geez, I think I need a "Fireplace for Dummies" book!🤦🏻‍♀️ I appreciate as many of your comments as possible because I'm definitely out of my element here.

Question for StoveLiker

StoveLiker, when you said, "It might have saved your home in the fire, and that's what they're meant to do," I didn't quite catch what you meant. Are you referring to the cap's function or something else?

The point I was trying to make is that you were concerned you've had a chimney fire.
If that is the case, the chimney liner (the steel pipe or "hose" inside the chimney that routes the smoke up) was able to contain that fire (evidence: your home is still standing). That's what a liner is meant to do. And steel liners do so better than clay flues.
BUT, if there was a fire, a liner can get damaged or have now deteriorated properties. I.e. it might not be as good at containing any inadvertent chimney fire the next time around.
Hence, my general opinion is that IF one thinks one had a chimney fire, have a professional look at it and assess whether all components of the "stove system" are still safe to use.

Dent in Cap

The cap has a dent (see photo), which has been there since installation. Could this dent interfere with its ability to adequately vent smoke by disrupting the airflow or draft?

No. It won't measurably affect things.

We know that a makeup air system would be needed to prevent backdraft when the windows are closed. However, here's where I'm confused:
Even with two 7-foot casement windows (open about 4 inches each), a little smoke still escapes at the top of the fireplace. Shouldn't having the windows open compensate for the lack of a makeup air system? And if so, does this indicate that we might have an issue with the chimney draft?

Yes, I think you have a chimney issue if it still rolls out when windows are open.
What is the geometry of the roof, the landscape around the home (including trees)? Wind swirls coming down over elevations can push air into a chimney - and then smoke out into a room.
Is the wind always coming from the same direction (when smoke rolls out)?

Should We Extend the Chimney Height?

The manufacturer's manual specifies a minimum chimney height of 18.5 feet from the base of the fireplace unit to the top of the cap (ours measures 20 feet). And, in case it's relevant, the actual chimney section is 17.5 feet from the damper,(NOT including the 9-inch cap).

The installation manual states that the 'chimney height may need adjustment if smoking or overdraft occurs.'

Would extending the chimney height in 2-foot increments be worth a shot to improve the draft?

Thanks again for all of your comments!

You can do this cheaply. Either with single wall stove pipe or something even worse (see above). I'd try it - especially if you can get on the roof yourself. That's the cheapest thing to try.

 

[No More Smoke-Shows:(]

Is the wind always coming from the same direction (when smoke rolls out)?

I'm not sure it's a wind issue because I've burned fires when there was zero km/hr winds and it does the same thing. Windy or calm doesn't affect it at all. And thanks for the clarification - I understand now what you were refering to.

 

[brenndatomu]

Pop the cap off, see what happens...if that doesn't cure it then add a couple feet of height...if that works then try the cap with the extra height...if it smokes back again then you need a different less restrictive cap (and yes I still think it looks pretty restrictive)

 

[gthomas785]

Hmm, gthomas785, interesting! The manufacturer image does look open. However, take a look at the picture I attached—it seems like the bottom’s closed off on mine.... 🤔

Okay, I take it back. It looks like the bottom is closed but recessed up a little. So I agree with the others, that appears to be a very restrictive cap. I would vote for removing it.

 

[begreen]

Pulling the cap off is a pretty easy test. At this point it could be sooted up, blocking those skinny louvers. If this makes a big difference, replace the cap with a much less restrictive option. If there is little or no difference, add on 2 ft of chimney pipe and try again.

 

[BC_Josh]

I remember hearing about how sometimes if you're at the base of a ridge, at times, you'll get downdrafts that travel down your chimney..... just a thought..... my two tarnished cents worth.

Do you generally only light fires at a certain time of the day? Or have you experimented with different times? Often wind goes up ridges/mountains in the morning, and down them in the evening.

I like the other posts suggestions. Best of luck! I'm rooting for you!

 

[No More Smoke-Shows:(]

Yes, BC_Josh, I’ve burned it at every possible time of day, wind and no wind; so I feel that's not the issue.

I do like the idea of changing caps. However, it seems the cap I have is the only one approved by the manufacturer. Is it a problem to use a different cap that’s not specifically approved by them? I’d be interested in any thoughts on whether switching caps would affect safety or performance?

I’m grateful for all of your time and advice. It’s been a frustrating process, but I’m hoping we can get to the bottom of this once and for all!

 

[begreen]

Try it with no cap during a dry spell when there is no concern about rain getting down into the fireplace. If that improves matters dramatically, then it's the culprit. If not, while the cap is off, have an additional 2' of chimney pipe added, still leaving the cap off. If that solves the issue, then brace the chimney pipe appropriately and put the cap back on.

If the cap turns out to be the cause of the problem. then a replacement that is less restrictive needs to be found. This cap also functions as a vent for the air-cooled chimney pipe, so a substitute may not exist. Majestic makes others, but they are designed for chase top installs. In this case maybe consider cutting out sections of the louvers in the existing cap and wrapping the body of the cap with a coarse, stainless screen to keep birds out.

 

[gthomas785]

Yes, BC_Josh, I’ve burned it at every possible time of day, wind and no wind; so I feel that's not the issue.

I do like the idea of changing caps. However, it seems the cap I have is the only one approved by the manufacturer. Is it a problem to use a different cap that’s not specifically approved by them? I’d be interested in any thoughts on whether switching caps would affect safety or performance?

I’m grateful for all of your time and advice. It’s been a frustrating process, but I’m hoping we can get to the bottom of this once and for all!

To be code compliant, you must install the fireplace according to the instructions. I see the installation manual for your fireplace lists a few termination caps that are acceptable. So if you go with one that is not listed there, you would be creating a non-compliant installation.

I'm not sure that alone would deter me personally from trying different caps, but realize that you would be doing so at your own risk.

Yes, the cap can affect safety as sparks or embers could be released from the stack and start a fire outside your home. A proper spark arrestor should be part of the cap. As you've seen, a cap that is too restrictive can cause smoke and/or CO issues inside the home which is also a safety issue.

 

[begreen]

This is a long shot, but to check that the fireplace install was correct, verify that the smoke shield, part #11, is properly in place.

 

[No More Smoke-Shows:(]

Thanks for your input. I appreciate the details because my main concern with an alternative cap is safety.

As for combustible surroundings, our setup is surrounded by mostly non-combustible materials: asphalt shingles, Hardie board siding, and a fence about six feet away (I attached a photo that shows the surroundings).

Begreen, thanks for the suggestion about cutting sections of the cap. Regarding the smoke shield. I don’t see a part #11 smoke shield; however, they installed a larger smoke shield trying to resolve this, and I assume it was removed when the larger shield was put in place.

Hmmmm, Gthomas785, I checked the installation manual but didn’t find any alternative caps. My setup requires a round cap, and since I’m in Canada, it uses the SL400 pipe, which has a 10-inch inner diameter and a 13-inch outer diameter with air insulation.

The installation company needs to come back anyway because the chimney height is over six feet, and the manual specifies it requires bracing. So I think when he's here I’ll have him inspect the fireplace to ensure there was no damage from the recent fire. If everything looks safe, I’ll ask them to pull the cap and proceed with your suggestions.

I’m interested in hearing other perspectives on the safety aspects of using a non-manufacturer-approved cap or modifying this one by cutting out sections, as BeGreen suggested. If anyone has alternative cap recommendations compatible with the SL400 pipe, I’d really appreciate the input.

 

[stoveliker]

asphalt shingles are quite combustible ...

 

[begreen]

Regarding the smoke shield. I don’t see a part #11 smoke shield; however, they installed a larger smoke shield trying to resolve this, and I assume it was removed when the larger shield was put in place.

It may be an error to assume this. The fireplace should have this factory part in it regardless.

 

[BC_Josh]

I wonder if the chimney has a seam or joint that has come apart, since it wasn't braced and maybe the wind or something shifted something. A long shot, but dang, I want to see this get resolved!

 

[No More Smoke-Shows:(]

Ha-ha, BC_Josh, me toooo! I watched the chimney while burning few weeks back to see if any smoke was escaping at the seams and didn't see anything (nor any soot stains).

Begreen, I will have to look back on old photos prior to the large smoke shield, and see if there was ever another one there. I assume it would attach right near the current smoke shield?

 

[stoveliker]

A chimney generally does not release smoke in the house when the stove is going; instead it sucks in air if it leaks. (That's bad too as it can lead to creosote deposits.)

 

[No More Smoke-Shows:(]

See how much I know! 🤦🏻‍♀️ I don't beleive they used any heat resistant sealant on the joints (you can see in the photos it doesn't look like there's any there).

I assume we could still put a bead of sealant around the seams?

 

[stoveliker]

If the stove pipe is properly install d, that is not needed and would make it hard to disassemble the stove pipe.

You could put silicone on the outside pipe seams (especially if there are any vertical ones) - but not for smoke leakage, but against water intrusion.

 

[No More Smoke-Shows:(]

BIG NEWS! Our installer is coming out this Thursday to extend the chimney—and I’ll only have one kick at the cat. I’d appreciate any opinions I can get!

See the photo attached—First, our installer says he’s not sure how he will get up that high to add an extension (without a lift!), so he said he can only add one extension. He’ll have no way to get up that high to add a second one. This eliminates the plan you folks suggested about adding a section at a time until the draft improves.

• So, do we just add 4’ and cross our fingers? Is that enough?

• With 4’ added, the chimney section above the chase will be 11’6” high (see photo). It will obviously need a brace. Does it need to be made by the manufacturer, or would any brace work? Will a brace be enough support for this height of a chimney?

• Because of the chimney fire, I’m wondering if I should have him replace the cap, even though I don’t know if it’s damaged or not?

• He also said the only cap that will work is the one from the manufacturer.

Again, regarding the extension, I need to figure out a solid game plan, so we’re not back to square one.

Uggghhhhhh. So frustrating. Thanks in advance for any suggestions.

 

[stoveliker]

You'll need 2 braces (one each 5 feet).

What he said about the cap ("will work") is bogus. Many other caps may work. However, to be compliant, you need one of those that are listed in your manual, as noted above.

If the cap has no mechanical deterioration, a chimney fire is no reason to replace it. It's not that it protects your home from a fire (as the chimney wall and insulation does - and those are hard to inspect, unlike a cap).

If all you can do is 4 ft extra, that's what I'd do.