Heating bills to be about 10% higher this winter (unless you heat with wood)

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I guess it may not have been well enough hinted at in my rant, but if you have a poorly insulated mega house, the logistics on heating it using renewable sources (wood, corn etc) are an immense hassle. Who wants to buck and stact 12 cords of wood to get through the winter ? Or find a place to keep 12 tons of pellets or corn safe and dry from critters and then schlepp all of that stuff to the stove all winter long ? Which is why the utility companies are able to rub their hands in glee at the "captive market" of all of those folks in the "mega houses".

A well insulated 1200-1800 sq ft home could be economically heated with just 2-3 tons of corn/yr in many parts of the country. Most people would have the space to stack 2 cord of wood. So super insulating and scaling down are the first requirements for energy independance (the conservation side of the equation). Yoy need less of "whatever" to heat the place, which means you have more choices and the renewable materials become more manageable / practical.
 
"Who wants to buck and stact 12 cords of wood to get through the winter ?"

I don't live in a "mega house" but I do heat 24/7 with wood. My house is log construction so insulation is pretty good. It just takes a lot of wood to heat anything when you burn 24/7 for 6 or 7 months a year. I guess until I convert to anthricite heat i'll be happy to cut, split and stack as much wood as is necessary to keep me "outside the heat matrix". Besides, I like doing it.
 
KeithO said:
I guess it may not have been well enough hinted at in my rant, but if you have a poorly insulated mega house, the logistics on heating it using renewable sources (wood, corn etc) are an immense hassle. Who wants to buck and stact 12 cords of wood to get through the winter ? Or find a place to keep 12 tons of pellets or corn safe and dry from critters and then schlepp all of that stuff to the stove all winter long ? Which is why the utility companies are able to rub their hands in glee at the "captive market" of all of those folks in the "mega houses".

A well insulated 1200-1800 sq ft home could be economically heated with just 2-3 tons of corn/yr in many parts of the country. Most people would have the space to stack 2 cord of wood. So super insulating and scaling down are the first requirements for energy independance (the conservation side of the equation). Yoy need less of "whatever" to heat the place, which means you have more choices and the renewable materials become more manageable / practical.

I agree with you. Insulation is the key. I insulated my basement last year, and it's the most comfortable place in the house now. R26+ in the basement walls, and no heat installed yet. Another bit of evidence.. A friend of mine has a home that's super insulated. 6" of expanded foam insulation followed by 2" of rigid foil backed board insulation. Not sure what that comes to but it's around r50 or something like that in the walls alone.
He heats with 1.5 cords of wood in a VC Defiant. The biggest point is that the house is very comfortable. No drafts and it's quiet.

I'm slowly working on adding insulation to places that are easy and needed... under kitchen (crawl space) and things like making an attic fan cover.
I think these things really make a difference, but there are so many that I think would have been easier to fix when the house was built.
 
I agree on the insulation addition tack to increase the conserving of heat and AC. This summer I added R30 to my attic in addition to the original R18 (house built in the early 60's) and I have noticed the difference already in the way that it conserves the AC and maintains the heat. My only concern is the walls as I am not sure on the amount of insulation that they contain. I know they have some but probably not enough for my liking. The basement I am not concerned about as it maintains a temperature of 65-75 all year long.

With regard to cutting wood, I like the requirement that it requires me to be outside and work to gather and split it, I look at it as my gym membership and stress reliever all wrapped up into one.

Erik
 
tradergordo said:
Newtown - just curious, where is your parents house located?

House is located in Cyprus in the Mediterranean. The stonework is imported from Cairo, Egypt. Believe it or not it does get cold in Cyprus in the winter. In fact that's where I learned to ski. Mt Troodos is 6,000 ft elevation. The house is designed to be cool in the summer and warm in the winter.
 
NewtownPA said:
tradergordo said:
Newtown - just curious, where is your parents house located?

House is located in Cyprus in the Mediterranean. The stonework is imported from Cairo, Egypt. Believe it or not it does get cold in Cyprus in the winter. In fact that's where I learned to ski. Mt Troodos is 6,000 ft elevation. The house is designed to be cool in the summer and warm in the winter.

It looks and sounds great. I'd love to know more about their solar system - how much it cost them and how much energy it provides. Is it typical for people to live off grid there? I can't wait to get off grid but I don't think its going to happen soon. All of the solar installs I've looked into still have an unlimited payoff time (hence making no financial sense).
 
woodconvert said:
"Who wants to buck and stact 12 cords of wood to get through the winter ?"

I don't live in a "mega house" but I do heat 24/7 with wood. My house is log construction so insulation is pretty good. It just takes a lot of wood to heat anything when you burn 24/7 for 6 or 7 months a year. I guess until I convert to anthricite heat i'll be happy to cut, split and stack as much wood as is necessary to keep me "outside the heat matrix". Besides, I like doing it.

How much wood do you burn each year? I hope not 12 cords! How big is your log home? Not sure why you associate log construction with good insulation? The R-value for wood ranges between 1.41 per inch for most softwoods and 0.71 for most hardwoods. A 6-inch thick softwood log wall would have an R-value of just over 8. That's about half the requirement to meet code in most areas.

Many of us here on hearth net heat 24/7 (no supplemental heat) on less than 4 cords a year. Of course if you are in Canada its going to be higher.
 
You're not going to heat much house with 4 cords if you have central heat, gordo. More like 8-10, IME.
 
I
think every trades person cuts corners. Bastards!

hey watch your mouth or I place a 24 ounce hammer in it. I'm not amused by that statement or attitude at all

And would be willing to match my carpentry skills any day with yours. I happen to have pride in my workmanship.

If a customer wants me to do a half a## job I tell them to hire someone else. I also do a decent job of making sure other in my town are code compliant.
 
I'm trying hard not to laugh at you. For every quality job you state, I can rattle off 1000 nightmare stories of contractors falling on their face or stealing money. I met 3 people in the last 4months who had additions put on their house. All of them say, "Learn how to do it yourself. Contractors are crooks!" The previous poster stated that their builder put r13 or r15 in a 6" stud! And you think that's ok?

One of the people who I met had a big loss. The crook (oops contractor) used roofing cement for flashing! Yes, after the sun dried it out and it cracked, water leaked in and ruined the insulation, drywall, electrical yada yada yada. Another one went to turn on the water supply for the hose bib on the outside of the house. Water rushed in the walls! They never soldered the pipes together and the drywall guys just sealed it up. And the third couple are still living with their inlaws; 9 months after the crook (oops contractor) said the job would be finished!

So what do you do? Walk on a any job in the town with your 24oz hammer and inspect the work? If you live in Easter PA, I can give you 8 more addresses for you to inspect. Those folks are having crook problems too.
 
leowis1 said:
I agree that the heating prices are beyond rediculous. I think the only real and meaningful solution lies in nuclear power. There's no pollution and its power output is endless. But we would need several hundred more powerplants to provide for this solution. And we need to upgrade the electric grid to handle all this power. A huge investment.
I don't think the prices are ridiculous, in fact I think they are quite reasonable given the huge and ever expanding demand for fossil fuels and the obviously finite supplies. Increasingly unaffordable? yes, ridiculous, no. And all this is with no major geopolitical events playing havoc with the markets. Wood is Good! :-) Insulation is good!, Solar is good! Wind and water are good! (wood and fossil is actually stored solar and wind is partly solar too), nuclear may be the best option we have in the near term but I can't bring myself to say "nuclear is good!" :gulp:
 
i cut lots of corners,,, this guy wanted a round poarch on his house made from square brick and bloack,, lots of cuts!
 
leowis1

It's normally considered good etiquette when you're new to a forum (with 6 posts) to not attack someone who is obviously well established (i.e. over 5,000 posts) right off the bat.
 
I am sure that given Elks posts that he is very knowledgable, however I have come accross some real hacks in my time. That goes for contractors, and business in general. Corners are cut all the time. It is difficult to find people today that are actually good at what they do. I work in an office of 9. In all honesty I would only hire 2 others. Today is more about profit than pride. If you find someone to do the job (whatever it is) at a reasonable price and reasonable time consider yourself lucky. I do most of my own stuff and if its wrong I have no one to blame but myself...saves on arguments that way!!! ;~)
 
It’s normally considered good etiquette when you’re new to a forum (with 6 posts) to not attack someone who is obviously well established (i.e. over 5,000 posts) right off the bat

My apologies. What was I thinking when I was informed that a 24oz hammer would be inserted in my mouth???? Shame on me ~rolling eyes~
 
leowis1 said:
It’s normally considered good etiquette when you’re new to a forum (with 6 posts) to not attack someone who is obviously well established (i.e. over 5,000 posts) right off the bat

My apologies. What was I thinking when I was informed that a 24oz hammer would be inserted in my mouth???? Shame on me ~rolling eyes~

what you did is stereotype ALL contractors with your statement saying they are all crooks. which is not true at all - as mentioned there's good and bad in every field..

just chill out and enjoy the reading and knowledge of the folks on the board because believe it or not EVERYONE is here to help one another
 
Eric Johnson said:
You're not going to heat much house with 4 cords if you have central heat, gordo. More like 8-10, IME.

Depends on your climate and house. In PA, I heated my 2600ish sq. foot house exclusively with wood on 3.5 cords last year. This is basically what I predicted it would take based on careful BTU analysis of my prior year's heating requirement (all the gory details are towards the bottom of my woodstove page linked in my signature).
 
Did you do that with stoves or some kind of central heating appliance?
 
leowis1 said:
I think the only real and meaningful solution lies in nuclear power.


No. Unless one lives in a rental unit, it always amazes me that people always complain about high oil prices but nobody is mentioning several other things that can cut your oil usage by a SUBSTANTIAL amount: 1) conservation, 2) increase insulation values in ones home and 3) plug leaks with caulk, weather stripping, etc.......
 
leowis1 said:
It’s normally considered good etiquette when you’re new to a forum (with 6 posts) to not attack someone who is obviously well established (i.e. over 5,000 posts) right off the bat

My apologies. What was I thinking when I was informed that a 24oz hammer would be inserted in my mouth???? Shame on me ~rolling eyes~

I think you're all saying the same thing: Elk said HE was offended and that HE doesn't cut corners. You say many OTHERS do. Both statemets are true......
 
To me there is no gas line in the street. However there are very efficient gasification oil burners. One thing oil heat has in its favor, almost all oil burners can burn 25%
Possibly even a greater percentage
bio fuel (grease and cooking oil) without any modifications. In fact it burns cleaner.
unfortunately my hot water is within the boiler tankless system For years I thought about solar but so far with college tuitions and now weddings I never can come up with. a spare 15k

I think every night I have tried to help a few fellow members getting up and running and to emphasis safety. It pains me to have another fellow member scoff at my profession.

I think I got to where I am by making an honest effort of giving my customer a quality built produce for their cost. I'm not some bastard trying to rip some unsuspecting homeowner off.
when I wear the inspector's cap I take that same attitude with me. leowis1, I see a hell of a lot more construction than you ever will. If it is not up to code it does not pass.

I apologist for the hammer statement un called as were your statement about my trade Want to know the truth as an inspector I seen good diy projects I can match you with the ones that were not so good including a wood stove I posted pictures of a day or so back vented with dryer vent threw a glass replaced with plywood. It amazes me that when things go Wrong, how important my bastardized advice becomes.
 
just put 100 gallons of oil in the tank at $2.89 a gallon. last Feb it was 2.69 and just a few years ago...well nuf said. I hope to have that oil for a couple of years or more while the woodstove blazes away.
 
In an effort to help reestablish the peace in here I think I'm going to weigh in.

If you have six posts under your belt, learn to bite your tongue. If you have a million posts, you still need to watch your language.

As for Elk, I don't know how good of a contractor he is. I have never seen any of his work. I can tell you that through posts in here and PMs, he has been a great help to me in getting my Summit insert installed safely. Thank you Elk.

As for contractors in general. The state of the construction trades in my neck of the woods is deplorable. The only good work I have seen around here is coming from the illegals. I know many people in the construction trades on a personal level and I wouldn't let them touch my house. I know a few good ones too.

I was raised to do things for yourself. We had to. Mom died when I was an infant and my dad raised six children by himself. I remember being 7 or 8 years old and crawling under the house to put a saddle on a water pipe because I was the only one small enough to get to it. This line ruptured because the builder did nothing to prevent it from rubbing against the block foundation. The house was only about 10 years old. Fixing stuff seemed normal to me then and it still does. Besides all the other wonderful things my Dad did for me, he left me with a basic knowlege of plumbing, framing, wiring, and HVAC. When I got older, around 15 or 16, and got to spend time with other families through friends and such, I couldn't believe how inept the average person is.

Elk, from reading your posts in here, it appears as though you have some sort of inside tract on the formation of building codes. How about suggesting they create a web site that is a clearing house of sorts for contractors and builders. Let people post their dissatisfaction online with pictures and let the contractor have a chance to rebut the complaint. That way we could see who is doing good work and who isn't. We could also see who is just too picky about the work they are having done.

Since I have a pretty good rant going on here, let me make a few other suggestions for a better life for all in general.

Throw out the XBox and read a book.

Require all children in High School to take one year of vocational training, even if they plan to go to college.

This one won't fly in a free society, but after my three trips to Lowes this past weekend for tile for my insert surround, I feel it would make life better for all of society. When someone turns 18, test their IQ and tattoo the number on their forehead. I bought 21 tile to do the surround and I needed to cut 6 of them. At 25 cents a cut, I figured I would have the (insert profane and derogatory pronoun here) cut them for me so I wouldn't have to drag out the tile saw. I'm not going to digress any more on this subject, but suffice to say, I could have done a better job of cutting them with my maul. If I had seen a 68 stamped on his forehead, I wouldn't have asked him to cut the tile for me and I would have been done by Saturday afternoon. Or if I had a 200 stamped on my forehead, I would have measured both ends of the tile when I double checked his cuts before I left the first time.

And lastly, I know there are few women members here. If you have a good man and he's honest, hard working, he put the stove in himself, and cut the wood to keep you warm himself. Then every once in a while when he comes home from a hard day at work. Pour him a nice tall gin and tonic, stick a good Cuban cigar in his mouth, and give him a little fellatio. You're lucky to have the guy.

As for the original topic of this post. I think Dennis Miller said it best. Whenever gas goes over a buck and a quarter a gallon, we should be bombing the @#$% out of somebody.

Now, let's all start playing nice again before Craig takes us out to the woodshed.
 
i know i posted this link before BUT for those in New England - this is a great site to find the least expensive heating oil in your area

http://www.newenglandoil.com/
 
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