Hearthstone Phoenix vs Jotul Carrabasset

[czydrm]

Yes, I do have a damper. I also had some super dry wood.... didn't seem to make any difference in how it runs.

 

[shoot-straight]

Regardless if the stove is undersized, size of the room, etc, the stove top should be over 300 for sure.

Not being able to turn air down points to wet wood in my opinion.

 

[czydrm]

Super airtight but lots of glass

I don't have nearly as much glass as what you have. I tried to take some pictures but having trouble uploading them.

 

[jzinckgra]

I don't have nearly as much glass as what you have. I tried to take some pictures but having trouble uploading them.

Do you know what your house heat load is?

 

[lazeedan]

Not being able to turn air down points to wet wood in my opinion.

x2

 

[rudysmallfry]

Does the flame change from rip roaring yellow to a dull lazy orange secondary burn when you shut down the air, or just keep raging away? 20' is a hair on the tall side. I would think this is a too much draft situation. Also, do you have an ash pan on that stove? I had a similar problem with my Heritage. Banged my head against a wall checking draft, wood dryness, install setup, etc when all it turned out to be was a bad seal on the ash pan giving the fire too much air and making it burn too quickly.

 

[begreen]

Yes, I do have a damper. I also had some super dry wood.... didn't seem to make any difference in how it runs.

I would leave the damper out for the moment. With dry wood, after a reload you should be cutting back the air after about 5-10 min. and the air control should be fully closed after 15-20 minutes. Then, close the pipe damper if the temperature rise is too intense or fast.

 

[czydrm]

Hey folks,
I know this is an older thread but I'll pick it up just the same....

So it turned out that the Phoenix had a manufacturing flaw that caused it to run like caca. The dealer was good and brought in a replacement within a few days! We suffered through the rest of the winter with the crap wood that we bought but were able to stay warm enough. I agree with everyone that wood was a big part of the problem. Still even after getting the new stove, burn times were less than ideal.

Forward to this winter..... we cut our own wood off the property during the summer, mostly standing deadwood. Super dry! Most of what we cut was poplar and birch. This stuff burns very nice. However, even with the better wood, burn times are short. I started looking at door seals and draft control and and and.... then I started seeing completely uncontrolled burns. Long story short, one of the stones on the top is not glued in... just sitting there, letting all kinds of air in. Talk about furious! I am done with hearthstone and could not give them positive recommendation if they paid me to.

Sooooo, let's talk about the Jotul f55 Carrabasset! The dealer had said they would be willing to give me a different stove, even a year later so that is the stove I am looking at. Any thoughts?

 

[begreen]

Sounds like you have a great dealer. The short burn times are partly the wood I think. I burned poplar a while back. It burned quickly and at a much lower heat value than a good hardwood like cherry, locust, etc.. It's a good shoulder season wood, but I would save the birch for winter and try to get some harder wood stored up. If it's possible to find oak, beech, hickory, locust, etc. in your area go for it. The F55 will be a significant step up in capacity. Folks really like it. I think you will too. It's a very nicely made stove.

 

[czydrm]

I agree with you that the wood is not the best in the world. My property has cedar, black ash, birch, aspen/poplar, pine and tamarack. However, due to swampy-ness and lack of equipment, I haven't been able to get at the ash yet. The aspen/poplar is by far the most abundant so despite it's lower quality it will continue to be the staple fuel source with birch and ash as supplements.

 

[countybrown]

Sorry to hear about your bum luck with the Phoenix. I have one and love it. I have no problem getting 5+ hour burn times out of mine. I have never had a problem with the stove. Only thing I noticed was one of the fire bricks inside came loose. I asked the chimney sweep about that and he said not to worry. Told me that the bricks are really only cemented in place for shipping, and it doesn't affect anything. I believe him because that was 2 or 3 years ago, and have seen no changes in performance.

 

[Creekside]

I really like the fit and finish on our f55 and it will hold a lot of wood in the box. I'm still playing around with it so I can't say I've got an eight hour burn out of it yet but the convective heat does seem to circulate through the house a little better and it "softens" the heat at high temps. I also really like burning wood but not having any visible smoke out of the chimney with this stove.

 

[Creekside]

I just read your first post and it looks like I have a very similar house. Ours is 1800 sq ft with a tall ceiling in the living area. It can take a little bit for the whole stove to heat up when cold because of the cast iron jacket but I only notice it because our old steel stove would get hot so fast.

 

[BradleyW]

I've come to think that one should get the biggest nicely made stove from the best dealer they can. Sounds like you have the best dealer, now you just need the bigger stove.

 

[czydrm]

So now a year later..... we have had the Jøtul F 50 TL Rangeley for about 11 months. It is much better than the hearthstone we had but still not perfect. It seemed that I was not able to get much heat from the stove itself. Rarely ever could I get the stove top over 300. We are on a hill top, totally exposed with a fair bit of wind and have a tall chimney. When the dealer installed this stove he said that we didn't need a damper. While watching the stove burn out of control one windy day I started to suspect that a fair bit heat was running up the pipe.

After a lot of thinking I decided to do an experiment. I got a regular piece of stove pipe and a damper. Set it up with a thermometer at 18 inches. So now, I can get a more even and consistent burn, stove top will get to about 400 but I still feel like the system is under performing. I feel as though I should not be able to hold my hand an inch away from the stove for more than a few seconds before it gets uncomfortable. I find it impossible to get the stove top much above 425-450. I suspect that the cast iron skins on the sides are preventing the heat from radiating into the room.

Anyone else have similar issues or suggestions?

 

[begreen]

Yes, you should see an easy 600F on the stove top griddle. The F50 is a convective steel stove with a cast iron jacket. The sides will never get hot. Our T6 sides rarely get much above 200F, even with a 650F stovetop. For a radiant stove you would need the F500 or F600.

What flue temps are you seeing?

 

[czydrm]

Flue temps are in the 600s pretty steady. Have seen 800+ on occasion. As for the stove top, I have the thermometer on the back left corner of the top load door.

At this moment, the stove top is 300 and the flue is 600.

 

[begreen]

Does the stove have a blower running when temps are taken?

 

[czydrm]

The only air movement device is a stove top eco fan.

 

[begreen]

Looks like draft is still a bit too strong. Ideally, with good dry firewood the flue/stove top numbers would be reversed.

 

[czydrm]

Yes, the wood is dry. I got a meter for Christmas have been poking each piece of wood with it! The highest one so far was 16.7%. Most are around 12-14%. Also the damper is all the way closed right now and the primary air is about 1/4 open. Secondary burn has not been stable today and usually isn't immediately after cleaning out the ash.

Any suggestions on how to reduce the draft even further? Another damper??

 

[jzinckgra]

How tall is your chimney? I've got the rangeley with a 18' stack. I've got one thermometer on the stove and a probe thermometer. I usually go by the probe, but once the stove is cooking along, stove top is about 400-500 and probe about 100 higher.

 

[czydrm]

My chimney is right at 30 feet of pipe length. There are two 30 degree bends.

 

[jzinckgra]

My chimney is right at 30 feet of pipe length. There are two 30 degree bends.

Actually my stack is 23'. Eight inside with 30 degree elbow and 15' outside. That's on a 12/12 pitch roof.

 

[firefighterjake]

Yes, the wood is dry. I got a meter for Christmas have been poking each piece of wood with it! The highest one so far was 16.7%. Most are around 12-14%. Also the damper is all the way closed right now and the primary air is about 1/4 open. Secondary burn has not been stable today and usually isn't immediately after cleaning out the ash.

Any suggestions on how to reduce the draft even further? Another damper??

I assume you know to measure the moisture on a fresh split of wood and not just pick up a piece and poke it as is.

I would not advise two dampers.