Hearthstone Mansfield not hot enough

[struggle]

Full blown secondary looks like this, flames licking the glass

A little less intense secondary

This picture shows the probe in the pipe above the dampener

 

[struggle]

YOur secondary in the video looks very low temp to me. Notice in my pictures there is no primary air coming in from the bottom of the stove.

The first picture would have been with dampener fully closed on a below zero night.

 

[edthedawg]

SLC - just checked your vid on youtube. That is the biggest your flame gets? You had just backed it down there? Just curious - you said before the fire looks hot, just isn't heating the room. that vid you posted - it's not a hot looking fire. it's definitely drafting hard - no surprise you're at only 200 stovetop, esp if this is the biggest the fire got. You're not really getting secondary burn there at all. Makes me suspect the damper you're using, plus also the unsplit wood you've got...

another curious thing you said - you dump ashes every morning? that sounds kinda odd - a lot of folks go a week or two (some more than that) without dumping ash. you need a good ash bed - how deep are you leaving?

I know we're asking a lot of questions about a lot of different things you are doing and seeing - don't get discouraged!

 

[FireWalker]

Here's some video of mine after 30 min. Flue damper completely shut. Primary is almost completely closed. Does it look like it's still getting too much draft? Surface temp at this point was only 200. BTW I tested my thermometer in the oven and it read spot on.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3nD5AgiUusk

That looks exactly like my stove with the damper on low or off and thats exactaly what the stove is supposed to do. What you have there is a low, long lasting burn setting. If you want more heat you will have to leave the damper (primary) open more. Yes it will burn more wood but it will make more heat. Try running a burn just like the one in your vid at half throttle for the whole load and see if that heats things up more. Don't be afraid of making the stove too hot, half throttle will not overfire your stove.

 

[mikeathens]

I went home last night and thought "I'll build my fire E-W". I did, and the thing took forever to heat up, and didn't really put out a ton of heat...it lasted forever though. By any chance, are you consistently placing your bottom splits/rounds E-W? If so, try a N-S burn. Mine is raging pretty quick with them N-S.

I also noted someone mentioned that the Mansfiled has unregulated secondary air, so i thought I'd check...that didn't sound right to me. I know the heritage doesn't, but the Mansfield I'm thinking flow through the same inlets as primary. I didn't get that far because I found a bunch of dead wasps in the left air intake. Cleaned 'em out, and now the thing is burning sooooo much better. I wonder if there's an old nest up in there?

EDIT...I lookled at your video. Mine burns like that occasionally...I opne the damper AT LEAST half way in those situations, and might leave it that way for a couple hours. I'll bet if you had a flue temp probe thermometer during that video, it would say 200-300 F. Could be wrong, but that's usually what I see when mine's going like that. You'll definitely have a better idea when you ge the thermometer. You will want to see 400-600 on that flue.

 

[wellbuilt home]

I think your wood is wet inside, Wood doesn't seem to dry with the bark on it . I would get some good dry oak and try it . My stove doesn't really get hot on a single burn . I need to have a full bed of coals first then load the stove and look out . If you keep you ash pan 1/4 full it will hold more heat in the stove .My stove is still hot now 1244pm the next day and i never add wood today . I mite add wood now because i have to run out and wont be back till tonight . John

This is how I get my hottest fires.

Fill the stove and char the wood on full primary air, then run at half throttle for the rest of this burn. That 4 cu. ft. of hardwood will be down to coals in about 3 hours but your stove top should be near or above 600 and your dogs hair will now start to smell as the glass will be throwing an amazing amount of heat. Rake coals and fill again, char and set primary air to less than 1/4 and you are good for the night. If it is going to be a cold night this is how I run my stove, the first load at 6pm is sacrificed to the heat gods to get the stones hot. Once they are hot a low fire will keep the temps around 450-500 for a long time. I regularly see 300 stove top at 7 the next morning.

John, glad to hear from you, sounds like you are getting the hang of your new heater. Got any wood left for February?

 

[wellbuilt home]

I think your wood is wet inside, Wood doesn't seem to dry with the bark on it . I would get some good dry oak and try it . My stove doesn't really get hot on a single burn . I need to have a full bed of coals first then load the stove and look out . If you keep you ash pan 1/4 full it will hold more heat in the stove .My stove is still hot now 1244pm the next day and i never add wood today . I mite add wood now because i have to run out and wont be back till tonight . John

This is how I get my hottest fires.

Fill the stove and char the wood on full primary air, then run at half throttle for the rest of this burn. That 4 cu. ft. of hardwood will be down to coals in about 3 hours but your stove top should be near or above 600 and your dogs hair will now start to smell as the glass will be throwing an amazing amount of heat. Rake coals and fill again, char and set primary air to less than 1/4 and you are good for the night. If it is going to be a cold night this is how I run my stove, the first load at 6pm is sacrificed to the heat gods to get the stones hot. Once they are hot a low fire will keep the temps around 450-500 for a long time. I regularly see 300 stove top at 7 the next morning.

John, glad to hear from you, sounds like you are getting the hang of your new heater. Got any wood left for February?

Happy NY fire walker . I was on a big learning curve . I think my problem was the size of my splits. and not getting enough wood in the stove at on time . Ive been maintaining 450 to 500 degrees . As far as the wood Gos Ive been filling the stove at 6 pm and topping it off around 11 pm . I let it burn until 6pm the next day and re fill it . I'm looking a little short on wood now but i found 2 large oaks to split up . if i can dig them out of the snow.

SLC I think adding wood thru out the day was part of my problem . My EQ doesn't burn much above 300 o if i don't keep the box full and run thru the burn cycle.John

 

[mopfoot]

so you're saying your burns were better when you didn't add wood until the cycle was complete?

 

[wellbuilt home]

so you're saying your burns were better when you didn't add wood until the cycle was complete?

Yes it burns better and burns less wood . The way it was told to me ,is the wood burning will only get so hot on the bottom or the stove . The real heat kicks in when the stove get hot and kicks off the secondaries . When you open the door to add wood in the middle of the burn cycle it cools the stove and stops the secondaries burn and prevents it from getting hot . I like to load when there is about 2 gallons of coals and the temp starts to drop below 300o. John

 

[edthedawg]

Thought I'd share today's events.

Got home to a very cold stove. Guess Woodstove Goddess didn't put any wood into it before she left for work. It was cold. a tiny little whiff of warm inside if i stuck my hand inside.

Built a fire using 4 medium-small splits of marginal seasoning/dryness (pretty much the definition of everything I have now) with one EcoFirelog in the middle of them, and a small pile of shredded cardboard and kindling (4 pcs of lath and bark, w/ one large piece of bark over top of them) out front, with a wax firestarter tucked inside that kindling pile.

5:26pm - One match lit it up.

5:50pm - 25 minutes later, everything is roaring.

~6:30pm - backed it down to damper cracked open a tiny bit, primary about 1/3 open. Stovetop getting up over 300. Starting to get a good coal bed going.

7:12pm - opened the flue damper & primary a little. knocked down the coal bed, pushed it forward a little, added two big splits. Great flames - jumped right up. Backed primary and damper down.

~9:20 pm - noticed stovetop temps still not very high - flames sluggish and small. Coaling quite a bit. Knocked it down a little, added one large split in back, one EcoFirelog, and one small split in front. it all burst into flames, and i backed down the primary and flue damper almost immediately, to "about 1/3" and "just barely cracked open", respectively.

~10:20 pm - stovetop temps running well over 550. Flue metal temp at 400, so flue gases approx 800. Shut flue damper all the way, nudged the primary down to under 1/4 open.

10:40pm - Not much in the way of secondaries right now - i can hear it cooling down, i probably backed it down a little too much. But I don't really like to see it running at 580.

11:30pm - just loaded for the overnight. From back to front: One large split, one EcoFirelog, one small split. Then one big honkin sucker right over top/back. Damper just cracked open, primary at 1/4. Flames subsided once the door was closed - gonna nudge it up in a bit, then close it down for good a little while after when i actually head up to bed.

I took pix of the loading and their flames after 25 minutes from lighting - added below if people care to see them...

One final story: Woodstove Goddess was SHOCKED to see me putting full size wood into a stone cold, unlit stove. I explained this was what I did every morning while she slept. She was obviously skeptical... It worked great tho - key is always knowing where the primary is going to blast...

 

[mopfoot]

I got my flue thermometer in and found that (as some of you suspected) my flue temps were really high. Fortunately, the chimney is new so there's no creosote build up. I was able to easily get flue temps up to 700. I closed the flue damer and primary air all the way and temperatures declined slightly and then started to increase all the way up to 1200. Here's what the fire looked like at that point: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucJ4EBApx-g After about 40 min, it gradually dropped to 800. Here's what it looked like at 1000: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kyS95Pz2NjE Here's what it looked like at 800: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=poJ4bLvjy0Y

Stove top temperatures increased the duration of the 40 minutes and topped out at 450. So I'm still not getting the 550 temps some of you are reporting.

Is this normal operation? Do you have further feedback?

P.S. The black circle on the glass is from my daughter placing her doll's head up to the door. Any tips on removing melted on doll hair without damaging the glass?

 

[mikeathens]

I'm too lazy to go back and reread the thread, but do you have a flue damper on your rig? Those are some pretty high temps for having the primary air closed as far as it will go...you should (at least in my setup) be seeing flue temps a lot lower like 500 or so after everything is established. If you don't have a damper, get one. If you do, sounds like you should close it all the way. If you are still seeing high flue temps, you might be a candidate for a second one.

EDIT: Duh, you said you closed the flue damper in you last post. I'm not with it yet this morning. YOu might need a second damper?

Edit II: I would stongly suggest you have your draft checked. Make sure it's within the range specified in the manual. Easy to do...either have you installer come and do it (they should for free), or borrow one from you dealer...

 

[bebopin]

Hello SLC... I have read your 1st post and see that you have the OAC installed.I am wondering if this is the sound of air rushing that you hear when you close the damper?

With my mansfield I will load the stove with the damper open all the way(23 ft pipe with 2 15deg elboes)and air open all the way.(sometimes I have the door cracked just a bit also)After load is charred and a good rolling fire I close the air to 1/2 and the dammer a 1/4.As the temp goes up I close the damper to 3/4 and the air to just the point before closed all the way.Flue temp will lower to about 300 and stove will go to 550-600 and hold there for a long time.(4-5 hrs)

I am not sure if haveing the OAC that you need to have the air open after the secendery has started.That is what the OAC is for to supply the air to the air tubes.

With a epa stove the secendery tubes (And the cats)are there to burn the smoke to produce heat and eliminate it from coating the pipes.

Just my thoughts.Good luck with your new friend and hope it will keep your home warm.

 

[mopfoot]

Over the weekend I took off the OAK and found that it was blocking the primary air from closing all the way. The bar on the bottom was hitting a piece of metal. I cut the metal so the bar could slide all the way, re-installed the OAK and now everything works like everyone has described.

Bebopin, I've been to the EAA airshow. What an event! The year we went, someone landed their Long-EZ in the lake. Oops.

 

[Rich L]

Full blown secondary looks like this, flames licking the glass

A little less intense secondary

This picture shows the probe in the pipe above the dampener

Hi Struggle,I noticed your pipe damper is center at front of the pipe.Mine is placed at the right side when facing the stove.When I turn my damper down towards the rear wall I get more heat and longer burns emitnating from the stove.If I turn the damper in the opposite direction the stove doesn't emit as much heat.Why,I don't know.It's just something to explore.

 

[caseyr77]

Your not suppose to use an inline stovepipe damper with these stoves. The stovepipe dampers slow down the gases too much and if you forget to open the stovepipe damper before opening up the secondary air control you can cause an explosion resulting in blowing the stones off the top of the stove. I service these stoves and have seen it done.

I get the best performance w/ the flue damper FULL SHUT. Granted, this is a damper plate that fits loose inside the 6" single-wall pipe, and has like, 4 holes in it, each about 1" dia... So it'll never shut the flow down completely, but you can definitely hear it slow things down. next time I crack this pipe open again, I will seriously think about putting in a more fully closeable damper plate.

it is totally safe to run it like this.

The primary - assuming Mansfield ~= Heritage function - pumps its air directly up the front bottom center of the stove and into the bottom of your fire. It's a great little power-blast for refiring from a hot coal bed - that's the time to keep it wide open. Once your fire is going, you don't need to be blasting it with combustion air, so you crank this down and slow down your burn.

I'm assuming you are seeing really tall, kinda wind-blown flames in the firebox? If you are, then (with such flames happening) try closing the flue damper almost all the way (if not completely - listen for the "intake roar" and how it changes w/ the damper - you should hear it noticeably "slow down"), and closing the primary control til its about 1/4 of the way from closed. On the Heritage the primary lever moves about 4", with full closed being all the way to the right. so i'm talking about leaving it at about 1" away from the far right stop.

Your secondary is always wide open. You cannot modulate it without dampering the main intake on your OAK. Your fire will get plenty of combustion air, even with the primary closed. We run our overnight and at-work daytime fires w/ the primary and flue damper both full shut. maybe a 1/32" nudge open on the primary if the fire is being stubborn and i have to leave, but probably no coals 8 hrs later if i do that.

One final caution - WATCH BOTH FLUE AND STOVETOP TEMPS. I'm giving you recommendations to (hopefully) really heat up the stove - you risk overfiring it if you're not careful, especially w/ the good seasoned wood you appear to have. Open your damper and/or primary if you feel the stove is running away from you, but don't under- or over-fire the chimney either and risk creosote buildup there.

Good luck!

 

[Rich L]

Your not suppose to use an inline stovepipe damper with these stoves. The stovepipe dampers slow down the gases too much and if you forget to open the stovepipe damper before opening up the secondary air control you can cause an explosion resulting in blowing the stones off the top of the stove. I service these stoves and have seen it done.

I get the best performance w/ the flue damper FULL SHUT. Granted, this is a damper plate that fits loose inside the 6" single-wall pipe, and has like, 4 holes in it, each about 1" dia... So it'll never shut the flow down completely, but you can definitely hear it slow things down. next time I crack this pipe open again, I will seriously think about putting in a more fully closeable damper plate.

it is totally safe to run it like this.

The primary - assuming Mansfield ~= Heritage function - pumps its air directly up the front bottom center of the stove and into the bottom of your fire. It's a great little power-blast for refiring from a hot coal bed - that's the time to keep it wide open. Once your fire is going, you don't need to be blasting it with combustion air, so you crank this down and slow down your burn.

I'm assuming you are seeing really tall, kinda wind-blown flames in the firebox? If you are, then (with such flames happening) try closing the flue damper almost all the way (if not completely - listen for the "intake roar" and how it changes w/ the damper - you should hear it noticeably "slow down"), and closing the primary control til its about 1/4 of the way from closed. On the Heritage the primary lever moves about 4", with full closed being all the way to the right. so i'm talking about leaving it at about 1" away from the far right stop.

Your secondary is always wide open. You cannot modulate it without dampering the main intake on your OAK. Your fire will get plenty of combustion air, even with the primary closed. We run our overnight and at-work daytime fires w/ the primary and flue damper both full shut. maybe a 1/32" nudge open on the primary if the fire is being stubborn and i have to leave, but probably no coals 8 hrs later if i do that.

One final caution - WATCH BOTH FLUE AND STOVETOP TEMPS. I'm giving you recommendations to (hopefully) really heat up the stove - you risk overfiring it if you're not careful, especially w/ the good seasoned wood you appear to have. Open your damper and/or primary if you feel the stove is running away from you, but don't under- or over-fire the chimney either and risk creosote buildup there.

Good luck!

Yo Casey,just to update you the Mansfield's manual does call for a pipe damper in case of an excessive draft.Of course everything should be used correctly.

 

[edthedawg]

Your not suppose to use an inline stovepipe damper with these stoves. The stovepipe dampers slow down the gases too much and if you forget to open the stovepipe damper before opening up the secondary air control you can cause an explosion resulting in blowing the stones off the top of the stove. I service these stoves and have seen it done.

I get the best performance w/ the flue damper FULL SHUT. Granted, this is a damper plate that fits loose inside the 6" single-wall pipe, and has like, 4 holes in it, each about 1" dia... So it'll never shut the flow down completely, but you can definitely hear it slow things down. next time I crack this pipe open again, I will seriously think about putting in a more fully closeable damper plate.

it is totally safe to run it like this.

The primary - assuming Mansfield ~= Heritage function - pumps its air directly up the front bottom center of the stove and into the bottom of your fire. It's a great little power-blast for refiring from a hot coal bed - that's the time to keep it wide open. Once your fire is going, you don't need to be blasting it with combustion air, so you crank this down and slow down your burn.

I'm assuming you are seeing really tall, kinda wind-blown flames in the firebox? If you are, then (with such flames happening) try closing the flue damper almost all the way (if not completely - listen for the "intake roar" and how it changes w/ the damper - you should hear it noticeably "slow down"), and closing the primary control til its about 1/4 of the way from closed. On the Heritage the primary lever moves about 4", with full closed being all the way to the right. so i'm talking about leaving it at about 1" away from the far right stop.

Your secondary is always wide open. You cannot modulate it without dampering the main intake on your OAK. Your fire will get plenty of combustion air, even with the primary closed. We run our overnight and at-work daytime fires w/ the primary and flue damper both full shut. maybe a 1/32" nudge open on the primary if the fire is being stubborn and i have to leave, but probably no coals 8 hrs later if i do that.

One final caution - WATCH BOTH FLUE AND STOVETOP TEMPS. I'm giving you recommendations to (hopefully) really heat up the stove - you risk overfiring it if you're not careful, especially w/ the good seasoned wood you appear to have. Open your damper and/or primary if you feel the stove is running away from you, but don't under- or over-fire the chimney either and risk creosote buildup there.

Good luck!

Casey - I would LOVE LOVE LOVE to see a photo or report documenting such an "explosion". It is completely inconceivable to me how such an event could happen.

And while you're at it, mind telling us what the secondary air control is?

 

[mikeathens]

How do I always miss that stuff? I, too, would like to hear more about the seconday air control. Could add a whole new dimension to my woodburning experience!! I just wish the manual would disclose the extra features :roll:

 

[Highbeam]

He he he. Secondary air control.

My manuals calls for a damper as well if the draft is higher than a certain low strength. Oh, and of course, no secondary air control. Come to think of it I don't know of any stove with secondary air control except a VC cat stove.

The heritage was mentioned earlier as not having unregulated secondary air. Well it does have unregulated secondary air and pulls this full supply of air from the same duct that the primary air pulls from which is fed by the OAK. The single draft control lever only controls the primary air. There is only one stove that I know of, the PE T5 series box, that has a linkage that throttles both primary and secondary by adjusting the single draft control lever.

 

[edthedawg]

First off - thanks for the correllating statements... Thought maybe I was missing something, too!

My observation is actually that you can hear the secondary tubes cooling when you crank down the primary to what we know is a "hotter" firebox. I attribute this to the same draft pulling, but now drawing more from the secondary manifold, which naturally cools off as a result... You hear the fast tink-tink-tink-tink, then that slows, and then you hear it start a much slower tink...tink....tink.... as it warms back up.